The tag alias #76552 mordetwi -> airplanes_(meme) is pending approval.

Reason: [please read the whole thing and not jump to conclusions]
My request is twofold, actually: 1) rename "mordetwi" to "airplanes_(meme)" or other, and 2) remove the tag from images that have nothing to do with the Airplanes meme/format – such as this image for example:
post #5528564
(This probably would've worked better as a BUR, doesn't it?)
The reasoning behind this is that, apparently, the tag was largely used for the "Airplanes" meme anyway – and it would just be more appropriate if the tag were a little more inclusive for other pairings; and shipping tags aren't allowed here anyway, so I think the tag should not be named after a ship – especially when the meme/format already had a title of its own to begin with.

I've had a couple or so images removed from this tag back then, because they didn't feature the Mordecai x Twilight pairing; now they should be brought back on this tag under the new name of "Airplanes".

https://e621.net/forum_topics/56857
I included the forum topic purely for the sake of having a forum to link back to, but the title/suggestion and the argument of the initial post is largely irrelevant, as I have come to a completely different decision. Check it out if you will – and yes, this is just a copy-paste (with modifications) of what was previously a BUR. Yeah, I don't know how all this works. Sorry about that.

Honestly, I'm just doing this because I don't like the idea of the name of MordeTwi being reduced to "the Airplanes meme"; I think "mordetwi" and "airplanes" being aliases of each other is just incorrect. The pairing had so much else going on for it – until "Airplanes" became a thing, and now it became the only thing the ship was remembered for. (No thanks to Twitter and TikTok rottage, frankly.) Hence, the original plan (in the forum linked) to just simply remove the "meme" implication.
There was real potential for experimenting with how the two characters could interact (disregarding the separate universes) and the possible chemistry between them, and perhaps it's just that they are someone's two favorite characters, or that the characters just seem cute together; but it's as if some people would rather have everyone take that the ship "was always just a joke and nothing more" or something like that, that Airplanes is not its' own separate thing, but a MordeTwi thing or "is MordeTwi". Hot take: that's just wrong. I did research for this.

Sorry for all the musing/rambling, you're probably cringing on me for the above text right now. But to be honest, though, I was actually still debating on whether to go through with this, or just leave it behind entirely and just don't make any changes. If you agree with the latter, please just reject this request.
...
You could also just agree (and go through) with the original plan to just remove the implication instead, I guess. I don't know...

You need to take a graduate level Mordecai-Twilight theory course to understand this post

It looks like you are very dedicated to these characters and want to make things right.

With that in mind, I think this case should be to make an update instead of an alias. That way, every post tagged with mordetwi will be changed to use airplanes_(meme).

The reason is that in this website, pairings should not be tagged. It is better to just search for something like mordecai_(regular_show) twilight_sparkle_(mlp) than have a tag for each pairing in existence on this website.

An alias will keep the tag mordetwi existing for replacement when used. Updating will not, and its a better alternative in this case.

oneohthrix said:
You need to take a graduate level Mordecai-Twilight theory course to understand this post

I think the simple version as to why this rename would be necessary is simply: the tag is currently getting used as a ship tag, which is something we don't consider a valid use. the only valid use of the tag would be pieces that refrence to the morditwi Airplanes music video, therefore airplanes_(meme) would be the more coherent tag name.

aninox said:
It looks like you are very dedicated to these characters and want to make things right.

With that in mind, I think this case should be to make an update instead of an alias. That way, every post tagged with mordetwi will be changed to use airplanes_(meme).

The reason is that in this website, pairings should not be tagged. It is better to just search for something like mordecai_(regular_show) twilight_sparkle_(mlp) than have a tag for each pairing in existence on this website.

An alias will keep the tag mordetwi existing for replacement when used. Updating will not, and its a better alternative in this case.

an alias will not leave the tag open by the way, an update would move all tags to the new tag but leave the old tag hanging around. an alias will merge the two tags.

aninox said:
It looks like you are very dedicated to these characters and want to make things right.

With that in mind, I think this case should be to make an update instead of an alias. That way, every post tagged with mordetwi will be changed to use airplanes_(meme).

The reason is that in this website, pairings should not be tagged. It is better to just search for something like mordecai_(regular_show) twilight_sparkle_(mlp) than have a tag for each pairing in existence on this website.

An alias will keep the tag mordetwi existing for replacement when used. Updating will not, and its a better alternative in this case.

an alias effectively "renames" a tag, and for this tag's use I would tend to think that this is the closest valid adjacent and with the tag being renamed I don't think there would be the same reason for users to add it as a ship tag.

manitka said:
an alias will not leave the tag open by the way, an update would move all tags to the new tag but leave the old tag hanging around. an alias will merge the two tags.

Yes, but as far as I know aliases should only exist for things that are a valid way to use it (even for an disambiguation)

mordetwi is not a valid tag in any way, and aliasing it will appear on auto complete (does tags with zero posts appear on auto complete?). It may also lead people to mistag pictures with the pairing as being the meme in question.

I think it's better to remove any aliases and implications on mordetwi, update it to airplanes_(meme) and then give the meme implication to the latter. Or aliasing them just to transfer the implication and then remove the alias (if thats how the system works)

If people keep using mordetwi after the update the category can be changed to invalid

aninox said:
Yes, but as far as I know aliases should only exist for things that are a valid way to use it (even for an disambiguation)

mordetwi is not a valid tag in any way, and aliasing it will appear on auto complete (does tags with zero posts appear on auto complete?). It may also lead people to mistag pictures with the pairing as being the meme in question.

I think it's better to remove any aliases and implications on mordetwi, update it to airplanes_(meme) and then give the meme implication to the latter. Or aliasing them just to transfer the implication and then remove the alias (if thats how the system works)

If people keep using mordetwi after the update the category can be changed to invalid

i was just correcting that since you had it reversed.

my suggestion in the initial thread was to update mordetwi to airplanes and then disambig from there.

aninox said:
Yes, but as far as I know aliases should only exist for things that are a valid way to use it (even for an disambiguation)

mordetwi is not a valid tag in any way, and aliasing it will appear on auto complete (does tags with zero posts appear on auto complete?). It may also lead people to mistag pictures with the pairing as being the meme in question.

I think it's better to remove any aliases and implications on mordetwi, update it to airplanes_(meme) and then give the meme implication to the latter. Or aliasing them just to transfer the implication and then remove the alias (if thats how the system works)

If people keep using mordetwi after the update the category can be changed to invalid

removing an improperly applied tag and an invalidated tag are similarly inconvenient.

generally, invalidation, is only done when there isn't a single tag where a majority of valid uses could be applied. so, I think we generally consider that it's better to try to redirect the tag to valid uses rather than invalidate the tag since it's less likely to add additional work.

dba_afish said:
removing an improperly applied tag and an invalidated tag are similarly inconvenient.

generally, invalidation, is only done when there isn't a single tag where a majority of valid uses could be applied. so, I think we generally consider that it's better to try to redirect the tag to valid uses rather than invalidate the tag since it's less likely to add additional work.

makes sense. you convinced me. idk if there's a way to change the vote but its an thumbs up for me

aninox said:
makes sense. you convinced me. idk if there's a way to change the vote but its an thumbs up for me

click on your thumbs down which will remove it, refresh page, and then hit thumbs up ^^

Ah geez! I didn't get notifications for responses. I should've set up the email notifications settings much earlier.

aninox said:
It looks like you are very dedicated to these characters and want to make things right.

Yup, pretty much.

___
Small nitpick but

dba_afish said:
the morditwi Airplanes music video

It was not a music video lol. This was the inciting/originating post: https://www.deviantart.com/bluedog444/art/MordeTwi-Airplanes-319272821

But I thank you both for your support! And, if you haven't already, I emplore you guys to read the tag wiki of mordetwi.

___

aninox said:
I think it's better to remove any aliases and implications on mordetwi, update it to airplanes_(meme) and then give the meme implication to the latter.

Believe it or not, that was what I was previously going for lol, but I got persuaded into doing this instead; though, originally, I was asking for just the removal of the 'meme' implication (not good!)

Hopefully what we're doing now is:
1. Add new alias "airplanes_(meme)" to the tag
2. Remove old name/alias "mordetwi" (in the immediate next step if that's how this works, though I honestly prefer if that was automatically done – which I thought was what the Update function is for)


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oneohthrix said:
You need to take a graduate level Mordecai-Twilight theory course to understand this post

>>> https://e621.net/wiki_pages/36908
Whatever it is you don't understand, ask me anything. 😐

msto said:
Ah geez! I didn't get notifications for responses. I should've set up the email notifications settings much earlier.

Yup, pretty much.

___
Small nitpick but It was not a music video lol. This was the inciting/originating post: https://www.deviantart.com/bluedog444/art/MordeTwi-Airplanes-319272821

But I thank you both for your support! And, if you haven't already, I emplore you guys to read the tag wiki of mordetwi.

___
Believe it or not, that was what I was previously going for lol, but I got persuaded into doing this instead; though, originally, I was asking for just the removal of the 'meme' implication (not good!)

Hopefully what we're doing now is:
1. Add new alias "airplanes_(meme)" to the tag
2. Remove old name/alias "mordetwi" (in the immediate next step if that's how this works, though I honestly prefer if that was automatically done – which I thought was what the Update function is for)


___
>>> https://e621.net/wiki_pages/36908
Whatever it is you don't understand, ask me anything. 😐

Oneohthrix was making a joke

But more importantly Alias is an action on this website
So when people say to alias one tag to another tag, they mean change its name in the search engine. Like you can still type the old tag, but the website will take you to the new tag because that's what it's called now. So when they alias MordTwi to airplanes_(meme) that's what it'll be called when you search for either.

nin10dope said:
you can still type the old tag ... alias Mord[e]Twi to airplanes_(meme)[, the latter is] what it'll be called when you search for either.

Ah, geez! See, I was trying to avoid making them seem synonymous, because they really aren't. I need the old name be erased completely (if Aliasing is what were to be done). Can that still be done after this, anyway? (Am I asking for too much now...?)

Mordetwi being a meme doesn't mean you can't be enraptured by its beauty or makes it insignificant. Personally, the way a pony and a blue jay can find love despite their differences made me fall to my knees and burst into tears.

A meme is simply a viral cultural item - everybody knows the viral sensation that is mordetwi.

The world celebrates mordetwi. 🕊🙏

msto said:
Ah, geez! See, I was trying to avoid making them seem synonymous, because they really aren't. I need the old name be erased completely (if Aliasing is what were to be done). Can that still be done after this, anyway? (Am I asking for too much now...?)

the only other option would be to instead mass update the mordetwi tag to airplanes_(meme) and then alias the old, now emptied, tag to invalid_tag. but I personally don't think that this is a better option, having the tag alaised will mean that people who try to use the old tag in reference to the meme/format will have the tag automatically replaced with the valid tag.

the main thing you'd have to worry about would be people still trying to use the tag just for the ship in general and not understanding that the fact that it's been aliased to a new tag (by seeing the mordetwi -> airplanes (meme) in the quick complete menu) means that use isn't valid.

the downside to the "update and invalidate" route is users who are used to the old tag and/or wouldn't think to try the new tag would have to figure out the new name on their own, which is generally something you want to try to avoid. it would howerver, mean that fewer/no invalid uses would be applied to the new tag, but I really don't think the downside is worth it. this option should be saved for the rare cases where purging the old name from use is kinda important.

dba_afish said:
this option should be saved for the rare cases where purging the old name from use is kinda important.

I'd say it is, because when people say "MordeTwi", they usually mean to refer to the Airplanes meme anyway; but when people try to post Mordecai x Twilight art, and they see that "mordetwi" tag present, they might think that it's a (valid) shipping tag, or that it is synonymously also called "the Airplanes meme".
... Which is exactly what your 2nd paragraph describes it is what I'm worrying about, yeah.

I'm trying to make a distinction here. I'm trying to make the tag catalog all the different artworks that features the Airplanes song or is similar/in reference to the infamous original drawing and make it NOT revolve around MordeTwi or the mockery of this pairing, nor be specifically/exclusively about the ship.
The ship is not what defines the meme, just as it similarly the other way around.

If anything, I would rather just have this tag be invalidated after unimplying "meme" from it. This tag should have never been called "mordetwi" in the first place, if all it was originally for: is to refer to bluedog444's shitpost or the memes about it.

___

oneohthrix said:

1. You're talking about the Airplanes meme/fad.
2. MordeTwi – the ship itself – being a "meme", implies that it's some mere trend, or a joke pairing (it really wasn't).
Even now with your reply, when you're talking about it, it reeks of snark or snide. (Perhaps unintendedly, who knows? It's Post-Irony!) This is exactly what I'm trying to combat (come at me!)

You can just say you dislike the pairing – the fact that it's even a thing at all; no need for that nonsense.

Oneoh you have met your match lmao

Say, just how much "additional work" would it take otherwise to simply Update the tag instead, exactly? I don't know how this works, but I honestly doubt Update takes too much effort somehow, rather than equally/similar to synonymsizing Airplanes Meme with "MordeTwi" – we don't want that, and I really feel like I should cancel this request right now.

msto said:
Say, just how much "additional work" would it take otherwise to simply Update the tag instead, exactly? I don't know how this works, but I honestly doubt Update takes too much effort somehow, rather than equally/similar to synonymsizing Airplanes Meme with "MordeTwi" – we don't want that, and I really feel like I should cancel this request right now.

The MordeTwi tag can't stay, that's been made clear.