The bulk update request #11835 is pending approval.

remove alias cum_filled (0) -> cum (763342)
remove alias cummy (0) -> cum (763342)
remove alias semen (0) -> cum (763342)
remove alias jizz (0) -> cum (763342)
remove alias seminal_fluid (3) -> cum (763342)
remove alias sperm (0) -> cum (763342)
remove alias spooge (0) -> cum (763342)
remove alias spunk (0) -> cum (763342)
remove alias sticky_cum (0) -> cum (763342)
remove alias thick_cum (0) -> cum (763342)
remove alias white_cum (0) -> cum (763342)
remove implication cum (763342) -> genital_fluids (1145619)

Reason:

alias cum -> semen
alias cum_filled -> semen
alias cummy -> semen
alias jizz -> semen
alias seminal_fluid -> semen
alias sperm -> semen
alias spooge -> semen
alias spunk -> semen
alias sticky_cum -> semen
alias thick_cum -> semen
alias white_cum -> semen
implicate semen -> genital_fluids

I'd like to submit this proposal for consideration.

The thought for this occurred to me after the pussy -> vulva change. cum is in a similarly awkward place as pussy was, as other bodily fluids/secretions (feces, urine, and now vaginal_fluids) are described clinically, making this one an odd exception. Though it's not as offensive as "pussy", it is similarly vulgar as well as a slang term.

(This would obviously require a mountain of additional BURs, but I'd rather not submit anything more until I can gauge support.)

If I'm talking with a doctor, I would use the term "seminal fluid". If I'm searching for content on a website that hosts explicit art, like this one, I would use the term "cum". In addition, we have tags like "cum_inside" [441,000 posts] and "cum_in_ass" [151,000 posts] and changing those to "seminal_fluid_inside" or "semen_inside" takes us past the point of absurdity, I think.

Like donkdewd said, I think seminal_fluid or semen may be too clunky for a lot of our tagging uses.

seminal fluid filled donut way clunkier then cum_filled_donut fr

donkdewd said:
If I'm talking with a doctor, I would use the term "seminal fluid". If I'm searching for content on a website that hosts explicit art, like this one, I would use the term "cum". In addition, we have tags like "cum_inside" [441,000 posts] and "cum_in_ass" [151,000 posts] and changing those to "seminal_fluid_inside" or "semen_inside" takes us past the point of absurdity, I think.

For searching:
aliasing a tag still allow you to search for it seamlessly. You can search for "pussy" and get you all the same results as searching for "vagina".

For tagging:
a) The tag "semen" involves 4 keyboard key and 5 keyboard strokes compared to the 3 keyboard key and 3 keyboard that "cum" requires. It's really not that much more effort.
b) And it's far from clunky when considering tags like hiccup horrendous haddock iii, reverse stand and carry position and both sexes in same situation
c) Taggers can still use those words as tags and the website will automatically do the substitution. making point a and b completely irrelevant.

bleakdragoon said:
For searching:
aliasing a tag still allow you to search for it seamlessly. You can search for "pussy" and get you all the same results as searching for "vagina".

For tagging:
a) The tag "semen" involves 4 keyboard key and 5 keyboard strokes compared to the 3 keyboard key and 3 keyboard that "cum" requires. It's really not that much more effort.
b) And it's far from clunky when considering tags like hiccup horrendous haddock iii, reverse stand and carry position and both sexes in same situation
c) Taggers can still use those words as tags and the website will automatically do the substitution. making point a and b completely irrelevant.

or dont try to fix what aint broke besides this would involve changing prob 100+ tags

bleakdragoon said:
*snip*

I do understand how aliases work. I think "cum_inside" is a better tag than "seminal_fluid_inside" regardless. If a guy says to me: "can I cum inside?" - that is clear communication. I get what he is saying. If a guy says to me: "can I seminal fluid inside?" - he is having a fatal stroke or I am having gay sex with Borat. That's the part that is absurd. We should use clear language, even if it is arguably more vulgar, IMO.

The main reason I can see to make this change would be to avoid the noun vs verb ambiguity with the word "cum". However, for that to apply here, cum would need to be disambiguated instead of aliased to semen, or else people using cum as a verb would still cause just as many mistags. That in turn would cause serious problems with people accustomed to using the tag cum, along with all the other tags with the word "cum" (which can't all just be replaced with "semen", e.g. semenshot is pretty nonsensical compared to cumshot).

donkdewd said:
I do understand how aliases work. I think "cum_inside" is a better tag than "seminal_fluid_inside" regardless. If a guy says to me: "can I cum inside?" - that is clear communication. I get what he is saying. If a guy says to me: "can I seminal fluid inside?" - he is having a fatal stroke or I am having gay sex with Borat. That's the part that is absurd. We should use clear language, even if it is arguably more vulgar, IMO.

Actually, that brings up a point I hadn't considered before. In the tag 'cum inside', cum can be either a noun or a verb. I had always read it as the noun, whereas it sounds like you're reading it as the verb. I'd argue that semen is actually clearer in that regard, even if it's a little too clinical my taste.

watsit said:
*expanded very clearly on the point I was grasping at*

Hah! Yeah, that encapsulates the kind of path my mind was going down really nicely.

funkwolfie said:
or dont try to fix what aint broke besides this would involve changing prob 100+ tags

Anyone that want to defend a position (for, or against), should use grounded arguments, not literal strawmen.

By example, having to change 100+ tag is a real reason to oppose the change. To that I would counter that there vaginal/vulva didn't changed all the tags (there is over 750 general tags containing the word pussy), and the BUR for pussy had over a 1000 lines, so we'd really need to scratch the surface to see the real need.

bleakdragoon said:
Anyone that want to defend a position (for, or against), should use grounded arguments, not literal strawmen.

By example, having to change 100+ tag is a real reason to oppose the change. To that I would counter that there vaginal/vulva didn't changed all the tags (there is over 750 general tags containing the word pussy), and the BUR for pussy had over a 1000 lines, so we'd really need to scratch the surface to see the real need.

when did I use strawman?

funkwolfie said:
when did I use strawman?

Have you read the 2nd sentence? Okay the formatting of my answer could have been better, but I literally say that what you said is a good example of a good argument... Settle down boi

quenir said:
Actually, that brings up a point I hadn't considered before. In the tag 'cum inside', cum can be either a noun or a verb. I had always read it as the noun, whereas it sounds like you're reading it as the verb. I'd argue that semen is actually clearer in that regard, even if it's a little too clinical my taste.

You're right, I associate that term with the verb meaning. I think the verb meaning (the act) and the noun meaning (result of said act) are linked together, so I don't see it as a problem for tagging purposes.

donkdewd said:
You're right, I associate that term with the verb meaning. I think the verb meaning (the act) and the noun meaning (result of said act) are linked together, so I don't see it as a problem for tagging purposes.

Note though that the two aren't always the same by Tag What You See. cum_inside uses the noun meaning, as it implies cum, which implies genital_fluids, etc, which must be visible to be tagged. In most cases, a character cumming inside will also show cum inside, or at least cum leaking out from some orifice which is good enough, though it is possible to show a character cumming inside without cum_inside being applicable.

donkdewd said:
You're right, I associate that term with the verb meaning. I think the verb meaning (the act) and the noun meaning (result of said act) are linked together, so I don't see it as a problem for tagging purposes.

There are definitely some situations where the two aren't entirely in lockstep. unusual_cum is one, where someone might be cumming, but without actual cum. The other would be where someone is cumming inside, but no cum is actually shown.
Actually, that brings up an issue if this BUR we're to be approved: is unusual_cum semen?

edit: I want to be like Watsit when I grow up (this is a joke, I'm thirtyish)

watsit said:
Note though that the two aren't always the same by Tag What You See. cum_inside uses the noun meaning, as it implies cum, which implies genital_fluids, etc, which must be visible to be tagged. In most cases, a character cumming inside will also show cum inside, or at least cum leaking out from some orifice which is good enough, though it is possible to show a character cumming inside without cum_inside being applicable.

I take your point, but I still don't see this as a problem. I'm not the most prolific uploader / tagger, but I don't think I've ever used the tag in a situation where cum was not visible. The tag's been used half a million times and it seems like most people intuitively understand how to use it.

In theory, I could get behind this. Everybody should know what semen is. In fact, if we include people who speak English as a non-native language there's even a chance they're more likely to understand semen than a slang term. From what I've seen, movie subtitles always caption it as come rather than the cum spelling, so familiarity would probably only come from porn websites.

I don't think there should be any problems regarding verbs/nouns because every instance of cum I see in a tag is a noun - e.g. cum_in_mouth makes perfect sense as semen_in_mouth, because it's just a noun-for-noun switch. Maybe there's some examples of it being used as a verb that I'm just not seeing right now - further information needed before I can truly support this.

It looks like in verb usage ejaculating is used more often, while cumming is already aliased to ejaculation.

I just don't think it should be done any time soon, considering the number of BURs we'll need and the fact there's still a lot of pussy to clean up.

quenir said:
There are definitely some situations where the two aren't entirely in lockstep. unusual_cum is one, where someone might be cumming, but without actual cum. The other would be where someone is cumming inside, but no cum is actually shown.
Actually, that brings up an issue if this BUR we're to be approved: is unusual_cum semen?

edit: I want to be like Watsit when I grow up (this is a joke, I'm thirtyish)

I think it's as much semen as like. Unusual_feces is feces.

Extremely unpopular opinion but yeah, I agree with semen personally. Noooot seminal_fluid, just semen. cumshot and similar would be fine to keep their current names as there is no better term for that concept, only slang.

regsmutt said:
I think it's as much semen as like. Unusual_feces is feces.

I've always been torn on having the unusual_* tags imply their normal fluid/whatever in general. we already don't really handle it consistently, unusual_lactation dosn't imply milk, for example, but most others do.

it seems like the basis of this drive is just pushback to people complaining about vulva and to take an even stronger stance when one wasnt needed

dba_afish said:
I've always been torn on having the unusual_* tags imply their normal fluid/whatever in general. we already don't really handle it consistently, unusual_lactation dosn't imply milk, for example, but most others do.

Something being an "unusual" form of something else would still imply it's that something else, so any implications should be entirely not controversial

dba_afish said:
I've always been torn on having the unusual_* tags imply their normal fluid/whatever in general. we already don't really handle it consistently, unusual_lactation dosn't imply milk, for example, but most others do.

I think part of that is that 'milk' is less tied to lactation (culturally) in the sense that you can buy a jug of it at the grocery store. Someone looking for milk (as a drink/carton/etc) would probably be confused about getting lava lactation in their results.
The other part is that there's less of a disgust factor and milk isn't as big a blacklist target. Someone who wants to blacklist feces isn't going to be happy to see a closeup of someone shitting mint-chip ice cream.

jhudson said:
it seems like the basis of this drive is just pushback to people complaining about vulva and to take an even stronger stance when one wasnt needed

My knee-jerk reaction was that this was just bait for those people, but with further thought, this one actually seems less controversial to me. Pretty much everybody knows what semen is - where the education system has apparently let many, many people down with the whole vulva issue.

It would also match the fact we switched pee -> urine and poop -> feces already.

faucet said:
My knee-jerk reaction was that this was just bait for those people, but with further thought, this one actually seems less controversial to me. Pretty much everybody knows what semen is - where the education system has apparently let many, many people down with the whole vulva issue.

i think cum is just too versatile in grammar to give up over the bureaucracy of allowing slang

faucet said:
My knee-jerk reaction was that this was just bait for those people, but with further thought, this one actually seems less controversial to me. Pretty much everybody knows what semen is - where the education system has apparently let many, many people down with the whole vulva issue.

Yeah, this one actually isn't bad. It cuts out the verb vs noun issue some of the tags have. My biggest concern would be cleanup and such.

If we were to do this, we should probably get rid of precum at the same time (to pre-ejaculate?)

anicebee said:
If we were to do this, we should probably get rid of precum at the same time (to pre-ejaculate?)

We can change "balls" to "testicles" - "butt" to "Gluteus maximus" - once we've de-eroticized language, we can remove all the explicit art and become webMD for cartoons.

donkdewd said:
We can change "balls" to "testicles" - "butt" to "Gluteus maximus" - once we've de-eroticized language, we can remove all the explicit art and become webMD for cartoons.

for real
we shouldnt be tempting these nuclear options for the sake of semantics and iron rigid standardization

donkdewd said:
We can change "balls" to "testicles" - "butt" to "Gluteus maximus" - once we've de-eroticized language, we can remove all the explicit art and become webMD for cartoons.

☝🤓 Well ackshually 'butt,' as used on e621, and 'gluteus maximus' are not synonyms. While the most prominent muscle structure on a human ass, the gluteus maximus in other mammals is smaller and appears higher on the back than what is colloquially referred to as 'the butt.' Another more formal term, 'buttocks' is a term for the specific structure on humans that results from the combination of muscles and fat tissue, so it similarly is not appropriate for substitution here.

Anyway nice try.

regsmutt said:
I think part of that is that 'milk' is less tied to lactation (culturally) in the sense that you can buy a jug of it at the grocery store. Someone looking for milk (as a drink/carton/etc) would probably be confused about getting lava lactation in their results.
The other part is that there's less of a disgust factor and milk isn't as big a blacklist target. Someone who wants to blacklist feces isn't going to be happy to see a closeup of someone shitting mint-chip ice cream.

I feel like there has to be a middle ground on at least some of them, though or... something? the tags being like this do cause some minor issues in both directions.

regsmutt said:
☝🤓 Well ackshually... [snip]

Thank you. I will accept you "well, ackshuallying" my joke with grace, since - scoreboard check - it's Cumheads: 21, Semenoids: 3. The people have spoken, and we want cum. 😌

cumchads vs semencels

With pussy->vulva we sacrificed readability to avoid being offensive and causing discomfort.
As no one is offended by cum and it's not derogatory, it should not be changed.

faucet said:
My knee-jerk reaction was that this was just bait for those people

I'd appreciate you to not make baseless accusations against me, thanks. I first brought this up a month ago in the pussy -> vulva thread because I genuinely thought it made sense. It's true that people have been bringing it up in the most recent grumbling thread, but I didn't propose this to troll them, I did it so that we could get actual data on community opinion instead of baseless assertions. And now we do!

We can change "balls" to "testicles" - "butt" to "Gluteus maximus" - once we've de-eroticized language, we can remove all the explicit art and become webMD for cartoons.

This, though, is a childish and ridiculous argument and I'm tired of hearing it. As admins have repeatedly stated, this is an art archive, not a porn archive; and as I stated in the OP, the site already uses "de-eroticized" language for other bodily fluids and that hasn't turned the website into "webMD for cartoons". Some of us prefer using professional language over slang when categorizing things.

I also don't understand why you keep doomsaying about replacing everything with "seminal fluid" when the BUR in the OP very clearly does not do that. Next time, respond to the actual proposal instead of the strawman you imagined in your head.

If we were to do this, we should probably get rid of precum at the same time (to pre-ejaculate?)

If this had any chance of going forward, yes. Like I said, a full conversion would require a mountain of BURs to convert all related tags. Fortunately, it seems that won't be necessary given the strong opposition.

donkdewd said:
Thank you. I will accept you "well, ackshuallying" my joke with grace, since - scoreboard check - it's Cumheads: 21, Semenoids: 3. The people have spoken, and we want cum. 😌

You're gloating for no reason, the admin can overrule the vote if they think the change is necessary, or if the arguments against the vote are stronger thant the vote for (or vice versa).

The only argument against are childish doomsays, complains about sanitization, or over inflated fear of confusion (when in fact semen is as clear as cum)

This BUR won't pass because it's too simplistic compared to the task, not because people's fear for their porn words

bleakdragoon said:
You're gloating for no reason, the admin can overrule the vote if they think the change is necessary, or if the arguments against the vote are stronger thant the vote for (or vice versa).

No one is going to come in and overrule a change that's this heavily downvoted and has no real reason to be changed
It's 27 down, 5 meh, 3 up
Or in other words, 77% voted no, and 91% did not vote yes
This request already has more votes than the average BUR (see topic #43716), so as far as BURs goes this is basically a complete majority

bleakdragoon said:
The only argument against are childish doomsays, complains about sanitization, or over inflated fear of confusion (when in fact semen is as clear as cum)

This BUR won't pass because it's too simplistic compared to the task, not because people's fear for their porn words

You not liking any of the reasons given doesn't make them all invalid

donovan_dmc said:
No one is going to come in and overrule a change that's this heavily downvoted and has no real reason to be changed
It's 27 down, 5 meh, 3 up
Or in other words, 77% voted no, and 91% did not vote yes
This request already has more votes than the average BUR (see topic #43716), so as far as BURs goes this is basically a complete majority

That's untrue, otherwise you open the door to weaponizing BUR. What would prevent people that want the return of pussy to make a BUR and have a lot of like-minded users to bomb the topic with positive votes? What would prevent someone to make BUR just to troll?

donovan_dmc said:
You not liking any of the reasons given doesn't make them all invalid

That's an interpretation of what I said, but not a fair one. Contrary to what you think: I don't like or dislike the arguments, I judge the arguments for their merit. I acknowledged good arguments in this thread more than once; But there' a lot of fallacious and bad-faith arguments

bleakdragoon said:
That's untrue, otherwise you open the door to weaponizing BUR. What would prevent people that want the return of pussy to make a BUR and have a lot of like-minded users to bomb the topic with positive votes? What would prevent someone to make BUR just to troll?

I am sure you know as well as I do that nothing is absolute, and that these are absolutely not equivalents

bleakdragoon said:
That's an interpretation of what I said, but not a fair one. Contrary to what you think: I don't like or dislike the arguments, I judge the arguments for their merit. I acknowledged good arguments in this thread more than once; But there' a lot of fallacious and bad-faith arguments

I'm not sure what other interpretation I'm supposed to come up with from "The only argument against", grouping everything together and dismissing them all

donovan_dmc said:
I am sure you know as well as I do that nothing is absolute, and that these are absolutely not equivalents

What do you mean it's not equivalent? This BUR is almost just that a: popularity contest. The sound arguments are literally drowned under post hating on the change.

Cum isn't offensive in anyone's view and there's no expansion/benefits to tagging unlike vulva. The only reason to change it is to further distance the site from being known as a porn site (which isn't going to work) and the possibility of some confusion from ESL people. Not worth the server issues I'd say.

bleakdragoon said:
...What would prevent people that want the return of pussy to make a BUR and have a lot of like-minded users to bomb the topic with positive votes?...

Other than the same people who voted to change it in the first place finding out/being told & reiterating their opposition? Nothing. So? If the vast majority of people who express their opinion want it that way, then so be it; it'll be changed eventually unless there's a strong reason why it can't/shouldn't, in which case staff will explain their reasoning & have a discussion about it. If staff thinks the votes are being manipulated, they have the tools to check that and handle that as needed. We collectively voted to change it; I see no reason we couldn't collectively vote to change it back, especially since it's been awhile since the initial thread. If the makers of the reversal thread continually reposted it after it got shot down, they'd be spamming and dealt with accordingly. There is a point where this sort of thing is a problem, but we are nowhere near that yet.

So again, I fail to see the problem. People voting to repeal a prior decision isn't inherently "weaponizing BURs" the same way voting to repeal a law isn't inherently "weaponizing Congress/whatever your country's equivalent is, providing one exists". So unless you think repealing prohibition was an act of political violence, let's not lose our heads just yet.

Beholding, I am sorry if my jokes irritated you. In between the jokes I think a clear and persuasive argument was made that we should favor clear language and idioms over pretentious, weirdly phrased language (i.e. “semen_inside”). Semen belongs in a Biology textbook; Cum is for the People. I am glad you created the thread so we get the community opinion on the record. On behalf of the Cumheads, I extend the olive branch of peace to the Semenoids. Let us go our separate ways and never discuss this silly topic again.

aacafah said:
Other than the same people who voted to change it in the first place finding out/being told & reiterating their opposition? Nothing. So? If the vast majority of people who express their opinion want it that way, then so be it; it'll be changed eventually unless there's a strong reason why it can't/shouldn't, in which case staff will explain their reasoning & have a discussion about it. If staff thinks the votes are being manipulated, they have the tools to check that and handle that as needed. We collectively voted to change it; I see no reason we couldn't collectively vote to change it back, especially since it's been awhile since the initial thread. If the makers of the reversal thread continually reposted it after it got shot down, they'd be spamming and dealt with accordingly. There is a point where this sort of thing is a problem, but we are nowhere near that yet.

So again, I fail to see the problem. People voting to repeal a prior decision isn't inherently "weaponizing BURs" the same way voting to repeal a law isn't inherently "weaponizing Congress/whatever your country's equivalent is, providing one exists". So unless you think repealing prohibition was an act of political violence, let's not lose our heads just yet.

So you agree with me then: popularity of a post don't mean it'll be implemented

This topic made it into the top 20 most voted BURs of all time in less than 24 hours, congrats

bleakdragoon said:
So you agree with me then: popularity of a post don't mean it'll be implemented

I agree there is the possibility in some extreme cases it could be overruled. I disagree there is a probability it would be overturned without cause, and I'm wholly unaware of any cases where it has happened before, leading me to highly doubt that people voting to revert a prior change would be cause for such.

beholding said:
[...]

The thought for this occurred to me after the pussy -> vulva change. cum is in a similarly awkward place as pussy was, as other bodily fluids/secretions (feces, urine, and now vaginal_fluids) are described clinically, making this one an odd exception. Though it's not as offensive as "pussy", it is similarly vulgar as well as a slang term.

(This would obviously require a mountain of additional BURs, but I'd rather not submit anything more until I can gauge support.)

I would not mind the change, i prefer consistency as well. However there is no objective benefit for it unlike how it was with c-boy, d-girl and pussy which were removed for being genuine slurs or at minimum vulgar to many people. While balls and cum are certainly slang, they are in general not vulgar.

i think the bottomline thats not being respected when people keep bringing up consistency is that tags are not a literal index in purpose
they are searching tools for visitors first and foremost

ryu_deacon said:
I would not mind the change, i prefer consistency as well. However there is no objective benefit for it unlike how it was with c-boy, d-girl and pussy which were removed for being genuine slurs or at minimum vulgar to many people. While balls and cum are certainly slang, they are in general not vulgar.

those-- those aren't objective benefits, those would kinda be the definition of subjective.

and furthermore, cum -> semen literally does have an objective benefit as well, being that it removes the possible ambiguity of the word being a noun or verb, since "cum" is both, whereas "semen" is just a noun.

ryu_deacon said:
While balls and cum are certainly slang, they are in general not vulgar.

I must admit I have to raise my eyebrow at the assertion that "cum" is not vulgar.

(And I would argue consistency is an objective benefit, if a minor one.)

i think the bottomline thats not being respected when people keep bringing up consistency is that tags are not a literal index in purpose
they are searching tools for visitors first and foremost

As others have brought up repeatedly, aliases improve searchability, they do not impede it.

beholding said:
I must admit I have to raise my eyebrow at the assertion that "cum" is not vulgar.

(And I would argue consistency is an objective benefit, if a minor one.)

As others have brought up repeatedly, aliases improve searchability, they do not impede it.

they meant vulgar as in offensive i think
edit; too many aliases creates bloat in the search suggestions and hamper the user typing tags with autocomplete