I'm not sure if the people in this thread are even talking about similar things, if I'm being honest. everyone in this thread seem to be describing/discussing entirely disparate concepts.

donovan_dmc said:
Femboy was literally just moved out of girly, and this really seems like masculine and feminine by objectively worse names

It's descriptors, it implies youthfulness and brattiness and sportiness too. It's a style. It's a style I like, and that a lot of other people like. It is not just "masculine", because I don't find that attractive.

nin10dope said:
I just wanna respond to this one to refer to this part of the conversation.
It seems like what the user is actually looking for is a particular art-style/genre, not unlike bara.
Unfortunately, bishonen is aliased away (probably because unlike bara, there wouldn't be a giant wave of upset people wanting a way to hide a specific phenotype)

Yes exactly!
I am looking for a way to tag and search for a specific style of characters. Much like bara, or femboy, or shoujo. I just want to be able to find artists that draws bratty looking boys and men.

nin10dope said:
a young man of androgynous beauty
pretty boy
Man you must be a brain surgeon with how precisely you're splitting hairs now lmao

I think that Bishounen fairly describes the style I want for adolescent/adult males, but boyish describes that both for adolescent/adult males and young males as well or female characters too in the cases it apply. I think in general I'd also be fine with "Bratty" to describe what I like even if it's slightly less accurate.

bertil2 said:
I think that Bishounen fairly describes the style I want for adolescent/adult males, but boyish describes that both for adolescent/adult males and young males as well or female characters too in the cases it apply. I think in general I'd also be fine with "Bratty" to describe what I like even if it's slightly less accurate.

I don't think bratty works either, especially with its cross-over as a kink where its definition can be even more broad, but also using the normal definition of brat - a defiant, badly behaved or otherwise annoying child - it's not really restricted boyishness; a classic brat child trope is a spoilt little rich girl screaming over being denied a pony. The kink dynamic just throws an even bigger spanner into the works as the brat_taming tag itself already has a lot of posts that probably don't even qualify, but brat's also don't strictly have to be youthful or immature like you're asking for, they just have to be disobedient or a tease

pookashifts said:
I don't think bratty works either, especially with its cross-over as a kink where its definition can be even more broad, but also using the normal definition of brat - a defiant, badly behaved or otherwise annoying child - it's not really restricted boyishness; a classic brat child trope is a spoilt little rich girl screaming over being denied a pony. The kink dynamic just throws an even bigger spanner into the works as the brat_taming tag itself already has a lot of posts that probably don't even qualify, but brat's also don't strictly have to be youthful or immature like you're asking for, they just have to be disobedient or a tease

Well that's kind of what I want, I at least feel "bratty" as a substitute for "boyish boy" or "boyish" as a descriptor could work because it fairly accurately describes the kind of "immature and wild" kind of boyish look I like. I also think "bratty" in general would be a good tag to have specifically for characters that are immature and unruly and playful.

I have no interest at all in the kink definition of the word however, it doesn't seem to line up very well with the actual definition of the word used more commonly by your average person and IMO they could probably think of some other less obscure name to use for their fetish. It seems to just be a master/slave relationship thing with the slave being more playful than usual and honestly I don't think that fetish warrants a new tag because they can literally just tag any search for a sub/dom dynamic with "mischievous", "teasing" or "teasing" and find what they are looking for.

I however want to use the word for an aesthetic, not just a specific type of behavior or clothes or gender or hairstyle but a combination of many factors creating a style of character that is boyish or "bratty".

looks like everyone here as a different idea of what makes a "boyish" boy so i don't think the tag should be unaliased

funkwolfie said:
looks like everyone here as a different idea of what makes a "boyish" boy so i don't think the tag should be unaliased

I don't think ignorance is a good excuse for not making the tags more accurate and the search easier for people to find what they want.
I will not leave this subject happy if no solution is found to there being literally no way on this website to describe or search for boys and men that can accurately be described as looking "boyish".

nin10dope said:
a young man of androgynous beauty
pretty boy
Man you must be a brain surgeon with how precisely you're splitting hairs now lmao

???
I don't think it's splitting hairs to say that bishonen/pretty boy/androgynous beauty is unrelated to this
post #2581751

bertil2 said:
I don't think ignorance is a good excuse for not making the tags more accurate and the search easier for people to find what they want.
I will not leave this subject happy if no solution is found to there being literally no way on this website to describe or search for characters that aren't female as "boyish".

if there is no clear definition of the term for boys. that tag will become unusable cause its literally an opinion tag when applied to males. if something is boyish to you doesnt mean its boyish to anyone else and vice versa

funkwolfie said:
if there is no clear definition of the term for boys. that tag will become unusable cause its literally an opinion tag when applied to males. if something is boyish to you doesnt mean its boyish to anyone else and vice versa

Then I suggest come up with a clearly defined take on what boyish means. I have already stated very clearly what I think this is.
When a character is masculine coded + youthful and a bit immature in appearance on mannerism. Can be seen as bratlike, or sporty, but does not have to be either. Is not exclusive to male characters, but is note exclusive to tomboys either.

Basically ANYTHING that could be used as an accurate description of why a female character is a Tomboy, can be used to accurately describe why a male character is Boyish. If it looks like sorta like a tomboy but it has a dick, that's a boyish male! If boyish male shouldn't be allowed to exist because it's too hard to define boyish, THEN WE SHOULD ALSO REMOVE TOMBOY BECAUSE CLEARLY THEY CAN'T BE DESCRIBED AS BOYISH EITHER IF WE HAVE NO DEFINITION.

Right now the search is inefficient at letting users like me find art of boyish looking male characters. I want a tag to fix this issue. Until this exists, this will continue to be a problem for me.

bertil2 said:
Then I suggest come up with a clearly defined take on what boyish means. I have already stated very clearly what I think this is.
When a character is masculine coded + youthful and a bit immature in appearance on mannerism. Can be seen as bratlike, or sporty, but does not have to be either. Is not exclusive to male characters, but is note exclusive to tomboys either.

Basically ANYTHING that could be used as an accurate description of why a female character is a Tomboy, can be used to accurately describe why a male character is Boyish. If it looks like sorta like a tomboy but it has a dick, that's a boyish male! If boyish male shouldn't be allowed to exist because it's too hard to define boyish, THEN WE SHOULD ALSO REMOVE TOMBOY BECAUSE CLEARLY THEY CAN'T BE DESCRIBED AS BOYISH EITHER IF WE HAVE NO DEFINITION.

Right now the search is inefficient at letting users like me find art of boyish looking male characters. I want a tag to fix this issue. Until this exists, this will continue to be a problem for me.

nice fallacy mate, tomboy is easily defined as crossdressing woman

boyish boy could mean literally anything? a man that looks like a man? boyish, a man that looks like a child?, boyish etc

I will however also add that if we do unalias boyish, and we start using that tag to define things that are boyish...
We should have very clearly defined usages for the tag, and we should only apply the tag to characters that look notable boyish. The tag is not to be used on literally any character that looks like a man, the tag should not be mistaken for "androgynous" or "male like". It is specifically for characters that looks boy like, as in youthful male like.

funkwolfie said:
tomboy is easily defined as crossdressing woman

That sounds transphobic to me

bertil2 said:
That sounds transphobic to me

don't try to pull that shit again. its not transphobic

a transman is a man NOT a tomboy, saying transman=tomboy is transphobic

transman != tomboy
transwoman != femboy

transman == man
transwoman == woman

funkwolfie said:
boyish boy could mean literally anything? a man that looks like a man? boyish, a man that looks like a child?, boyish etc

No, the actual definition of the word is not "man like". It is "young male like".
If it does not look like a young male, it is not boyish. A character can look like a young immature male, an adult female can look like a young immature male, a young male can look like a young immature male, and an adult male can look like a young immature male.

That is the definition of boyish. That is an extremely good and justified reason for the tag to exist. Right now, there is ZERO ways to look for male characters with a young immature male aesthetic style to them. This is an issue for me. This is something that I like and I want to be able to tag and search for on this website.

bertil2 said:
No, the actual definition of the word is not "man like". It is "young male like".
If it does not look like a young male, it is not boyish. A character can look like a young immature male, an adult female can look like a young immature male, a young male can look like a young immature male, and an adult male can look like a young immature male.

That is the definition of boyish. That is an extremely good and justified reason for the tag to exist. Right now, there is ZERO ways to look for male characters with a young immature male aesthetic style to them. This is an issue for me. This is something that I like and I want to be able to tag and search for on this website.

so it would apply to all male cub posts? since a cub is a immature male

funkwolfie said:
don't try to pull that shit again. its not transphobic

a transman is a man NOT a tomboy, saying transman=tomboy is transphobic

I'm saying assuming any woman that can be described as tomboy is the same as a "crossdresser" is absurd.
If that was true then how come this website has pictures of naked tomboys? According to your definition a tomboy is only defined by crossdressing, which is defined by wearing the clothes of the opposite gender.

bertil2 said:
I'm saying assuming any woman that can be described as tomboy is the same as a "crossdresser" is absurd.
If that was true then how come this website has pictures of naked tomboys? According to your definition a tomboy is only defined by crossdressing, which is defined by wearing the clothes of the opposite gender.

sorry it also includes "a girl who enjoys rough, noisy activities traditionally associated with boys." but on e6 we use it to describe a masc lady (who is not trans man)

funkwolfie said:
so it would apply to all male cub posts? since a cub is a immature male

No. Only to male cub posts that look boyish.
A very large amount of male cub posts would indeed be tagged as boyish, but not all of them. There are plenty of male cubs that look feminine, or androgynous, or where looking like a boy isn't a notable design choice to the style of the drawing. These posts should not be tagged with "boyish".

bertil2 said:
No. Only to male cub posts that look boyish.
A very large amount of male cub posts would indeed be tagged as boyish, but not all of them. There are plenty of male cubs that look feminine, or androgynous, or where looking like a boy isn't a notable design choice to the style of the drawing. These posts should not be tagged with "boyish".

you said boyish looks like " young immature male"
a male cub would be a young immature male

the tags should not be unaliased

funkwolfie said:
sorry it also includes "a girl who enjoys rough, noisy activities traditionally associated with boys." but on e6 we use it to describe a masc lady (who is not trans man)

Well why can't we have that very same definition, but used to refer to a subtype of male characters?
That is literally all I'm asking for, a tag for male characters that has all the characteristics of what someone can use to describe a tomboy EXCEPT they are male.

bertil2 said:
Well why can't we have that very same definition, but used to refer to a subtype of male characters?
That is literally all I'm asking for, a tag for male characters that has all the characteristics of what someone can use to describe a tomboy EXCEPT they are male.

we are just going around in circle, i point out the flaws in your definitions you ignore them and say basically nuh uh, I tried to help explain why it should not be unaliased but clearly you are not intent on learning about how e6 tag things

funkwolfie said:
you said boyish looks like " young immature male"
a male cub would be a young immature male

I was shortening down my definition to make my post easier to read
If you want my actual definition it's

Male coded/immature + youthful, often with a sporty of bratty aesthetic and typically short hair. Untamed and cute. It should not be mistaken for "androgynous" or "male like". It is not used to define ALL characters that are male, and it should only be used for characters that notably fit this aesthetic and not for literally all male or male looking characters.

funkwolfie said:
we are just going around in circle, i point out the flaws in your definitions you ignore them and say basically nuh uh, I tried to help explain why it should not be unaliased but clearly you are not intent on learning about how e6 tag things

I am not ignoring anything you say, I am telling you that you are deliberately misunderstanding me or ignoring the things I use as arguments because you have already made up your mind that you don't like change.

And quite frankly I don't care how e6 tag things, if the way they tag things in inefficient for people finding what they want then clearly it isn't good enough and should be changed. There is literally no tag for the thing I want to search for, despite that is an easily enough to define that you are okay with the description to be used for the "tomboy" tag. That is absurd to me. Boyish DOES NOT MEAN "woman who dresses like a man". It means ANYTHING that is boylike. That is what I want a tag for. I want to search for boyish men and boys. I do not want to redirected to tomboys, that's inefficient and dumb and not what I was looking for.

bertil2 said:
And quite frankly I don't care how e6 tag things, if the way they tag things in inefficient for people finding what they want then clearly it isn't good enough and should be changed. There is literally no tag for the thing I want to search for, despite that is an easily enough to define that you are okay with the description to be used for the "tomboy" tag.

But it's clearly not easily defined. I have my own ideas and you seem to have yours. Our ideas have overlaps, but I don't think they're entirely the same. We have some people in the thread who have other ideas while for other people the concept seems to be completely unintuitive. If I was to see that "Boyish" is a tag and hoped to see twinks or men acting immaturely and ended up coming in to a mess of unruly men, little children, and women with pixie cuts I'd probably think "well I clearly won't get anywhere searching for that" and then never touch it again because I certainly wasn't hoping to find little boys - that makes it even more dubious because I think most people would agree with me on that front and I don't want to be searching for what I hope to see and be greeted to something with a whole lot of holes in it because of the blacklisting

bertil2 said:
Boyish DOES NOT MEAN "woman who dresses like a man". It means ANYTHING that is boylike.

I do think this is true and might be worth reconsidering. Since "boyish" as a term both describes someone being more youthful and leans into masculinity, there is bound to be a lot of people who think that it's better if it's closer to women since it's easy to call a masculine woman boyish, but there's also probably plenty of people for who this tag would be more useful if it described older men since it's also easy to call a grown man being silly "boyish". And there are plenty of people who see it as both. There could be a disambiguation that irons out all these nuances, but it could also just be easier to completely dismiss it and either invalidate it or leave it where it is.