Aliasing bazooka → rocket_launcher
Link to alias

Reason:

A Bazooka is a particular type of Rocket Launcher, but is sometimes also used to refer to shoulder fired missile weapons in general.

My first instinct is to say that an implication would be better.

But how finely do we really need to tag weapons systems?

I would support alias.
for some reason I feel like there's an artist named bazooka...

I would be okay with an implication as well even though I would not really trust most people to be able to distinguish between a bazooka, RPG, or other forms of shoulder fired missile weapons.

Azazial said:
I would be okay with an implication as well even though I would not really trust most people to be able to distinguish between a bazooka, RPG, or other forms of shoulder fired missile weapons.

with a bazooka you can't actually see the rocket when its loaded, right? Shit I dunno, I just feel like rocket launchers are the skinnier ones where the rocket sticks out, but I'm probably wrong.

Implication would be better. We have other, even more specific weapons tags.

That level of detail is good for sex acts and such, considering the nature of the site. But I have to wonder if anyone ever actually searches for specific weapons? So I'm thinking that this alias might be okay.

Too bad there's no way to tell if the tag is actually used in searches or blacklists.

Genjar said:
That level of detail is good for sex acts and such, considering the nature of the site. But I have to wonder if anyone ever actually searches for specific weapons? So I'm thinking that this alias might be okay.

Too bad there's no way to tell if the tag is actually used in searches or blacklists.

If it hurts no one, and is accurate, it's not a bad tag.

Sollux said:
with a bazooka you can't actually see the rocket when its loaded, right? Shit I dunno, I just feel like rocket launchers are the skinnier ones where the rocket sticks out, but I'm probably wrong.

A bazooka (when talking about rocket launchers) is specifically this thing, much like a tomcat (when talking about aircraft) is specifically this thing. It's a name for a particular type (well, a very closely related family) of rocket launcher. A rocket launcher is anything that launches rockets. Rocket launchers vary from man-portable shoulder launchers like this, this, and this to multiple rocket systems like this, this, and these pods to vertical launch systems like this and this silo, although it is reasonable to restrict usage of the term to only man-portable systems. It's a very broad term, even with that restriction.

Halite said:
If it hurts no one, and is accurate, it's not a bad tag.

Agreed. Bazookas are also specifically man-portable rocket launchers, so they do have meaning beyond just "rocket launcher".

EDIT: Snowy said it much better and in the time from when I opened the topic to when I posted it. XD

Halite said:
If it hurts no one, and is accurate, it's not a bad tag.

I suppose it's accurate enough, though there's several images under rocket_launcher that seem like bazookas to me. And vice versa.

Genjar said:
I suppose it's accurate enough, though there's several images under rocket_launcher that seem like bazookas to me. And vice versa.

Any image containing a bazooka should be tagged bazooka and rocket_launcher (or just rocket_launcher, if we decide to get rid of bazooka as a tag). An implication (or alias, if we decide to get rid of bazooka as a tag) would work well for this.

Genjar said:
I suppose it's accurate enough, though there's several images under rocket_launcher that seem like bazookas to me. And vice versa.

That's because the tag isn't accurate at all.

There are many types of rocket launchers. And most of them are what the average tagger would call a bazooka.

DrHorse said:
That's because the tag isn't accurate at all.

There are many types of rocket launchers. And most of them are what the average tagger would call a bazooka.

The term "bazooka" continues to be used informally as a genericized term to refer to any shoulder-fired missile weapon that fires rocket propelled grenades, though, an that's the usage we're using here. Most people don't even know of the existance of the original line of RPGs that were actually commonly called "Bazooka" (the M line of RPGs, basically).

123easy said:
The term "bazooka" continues to be used informally as a genericized term to refer to any shoulder-fired missile weapon that fires rocket propelled grenades

That's everything tagged with rocket_launcher.

DrHorse said:
That's everything tagged with rocket_launcher.

but that doesn't mean that all rocket launchers are bazookas. Just because we don't have some stationary or vehicle-mounted rocket launchers yet doesn't mean we shouldn't separate them from the man-portable ones currently.

What I'm getting from this makes me think bazooka should imply rocket_launcher, and a stationary or vehicular rocket launcher should be tagged mounted_weapon and rocket_launcher.
mounted_weapon could be a nice tag if it doesn't already exist too.

Sollux said:
What I'm getting from this makes me think bazooka should imply rocket_launcher, and a stationary or vehicular rocket launcher should be tagged mounted_weapon and rocket_launcher.
mounted_weapon could be a nice tag if it doesn't already exist too.

Basically, this is what I'm saying, yeah.

Sollux said:
a stationary or vehicular rocket launcher should be tagged mounted_weapon and rocket_launcher.

This sounds like a much better solution than keeping around a completely redundant tag, which may or may not become slightly less redundant some time in the future.

DrHorse said:
This sounds like a much better solution than keeping around a completely redundant tag, which may or may not become slightly less redundant some time in the future.

How is it redundant? It is the "mounted_weapon" tag equivilent. Show someone a shoulder-fired missile launcher and they will usually call it a bazooka before calling it anything else unless they have indepth knowledge.

123easy said:
How is it redundant? It is the "mounted_weapon" tag equivilent. Show someone a shoulder-fired missile launcher and they will usually call it a bazooka before calling it anything else unless they have indepth knowledge.

Yes, they'll usually call it a bazooka... or a rocket_launcher.

123easy said:
(the M line of RPGs, basically).

Specifically, the M1, M1A1, M9, M9A1, and M18. The M20, M20A1/A1B1, M20B1 ("super bazooka"s) and the M25 (three-shot bazooka) also count, although with modifiers. However, I wouldn't say "the M line", because basically everything used by the US Army gets a M* designation. There are a lot of rocket launchers with M* designations, and relatively few of them are bazookas (which are helpfully picked out in the list).

Snowy said:
Specifically, the M1, M1A1, M9, M9A1, and M18. The M20, M20A1/A1B1, M20B1 ("super bazooka"s) and the M25 (three-shot bazooka) also count, although with modifiers. However, I wouldn't say "the M line", because basically everything used by the US Army gets a M* designation. There are a lot of rocket launchers with M* designations, and relatively few of them are bazookas (which are helpfully picked out in the list).

I stand enlightened. I wasn't aware of there being so many other m-series rocket launchers in existance. Thank you for the correction! (For the record, not that it matters much at this point, but when I stated M line, i meant M line of rocket launchers, not M line of military hardware in general, in case anyone cares)

DrHorse said:
Yes, they'll usually call it a bazooka... or a rocket_launcher.

Go ask people on the street or in a mall or something, and they'll probably say bazooka before they say rocket launcher. I know when I did a random sampling of people at Walmart (was picking up some games and stuff with a gift card I got for christmas), the majority said bazooka. Only two said rocket launcher first, and I asked at least 20 people.

If they're so easy to mix up, then is there much point in trying to keep them separate? And if there is, then I think those need good wiki descriptions that explain the difference in layman's terms.

123easy said:
I know when I did a random sampling of people at Walmart (was picking up some games and stuff with a gift card I got for christmas), the majority said bazooka. Only two said rocket launcher first, and I asked at least 20 people.

That's not a random sampling. They were probably mostly people who grew up in the 80s. Plus bazooka is easier to say in casual conversion.

DrHorse said:
That's not a random sampling. They were probably mostly people who grew up in the 80s. Plus bazooka is easier to say in casual conversion.

Sure. Say whatever you need to make yourself feel better.

Genjar said:
If they're so easy to mix up, then is there much point in trying to keep them separate? And if there is, then I think those need good wiki descriptions that explain the difference in layman's terms.

Bazooka: man-portable rocket launcher that consists of a launcher tube (sometimes multiple tubes in a multi-shot arrangement) and a rocket-propelled grenade.

rocket_launcher: any device that fires a rocket-propelled piece of ordnance.

mounted_launcher: Any rocket launcher mounted to a vehicle or emplacement that is not easily made mobile.

Bazooka implies rocket_launcher.

123easy said:
Bazooka: man-portable rocket launcher that consists of a launcher tube (sometimes multiple tubes in a multi-shot arrangement) and a rocket-propelled grenade.

rocket_launcher: any device that fires a rocket-propelled piece of ordnance.

mounted_launcher: Any rocket launcher mounted to a vehicle or emplacement that is not easily made mobile.

Bazooka implies rocket_launcher.

Bazooka tag = rocket_launcher -mounted_launcher

There is no reason for this tag to exist.

I showed my friends a picture of a M72 LAW launcher and asked them what they'd call it. Most of them said "rocket launcher". The sole exception said "M72", but he was in the Army so he's a special case.

Just figured I'd counter your anecdata with some anecdata of my own.

Anyway, if we have a bazooka tag it should be for bazookas. Not for any man-portable rocket launcher.

So to sum things up:
#1 Bazooka is a subtype of Rocket Launcher.
#2 Bazooka is sometimes used to mean all rocket launchers in general, but since we have other sub-weapon types and this is not a crazy specific one it's reasonable to have it.
#3 Until such a time at which there is consensus that Bazooka needs to be aliased away, of which there is none, it should be implied and all but one participant in the thread thus far agrees on the implication proposed.

Admin Action Needed:
Bazooka implies Rocket_Launcher

Azazial said:
Admin Action Needed:
Bazooka implies Rocket_Launcher

And a definition for the bazooka tag.

Or alias it. It's not like a man-portable rocket launcher tag would be useful.

Edit: It really is a terrible definition. I'm fairly confident that most people would not refer to an RPG-7 as a bazooka.

Azazial said:
So to sum things up:
#1 Bazooka is a subtype of Rocket Launcher.
#2 Bazooka is sometimes used to mean all rocket launchers in general, but since we have other sub-weapon types and this is not a crazy specific one it's reasonable to have it.
#3 Until such a time at which there is consensus that Bazooka needs to be aliased away, of which there is none, it should be implied and all but one participant in the thread thus far agrees on the implication proposed.

Admin Action Needed:
Bazooka implies Rocket_Launcher

Personal clarification:

I do not agree with the third's secondary reasoning, as "majority says it works that way" should never overrule a tag working the way that the words are defined as (this includes furry-specific definitions not just dictionary definitions). In this case there is no issue, as bazooka is used appropriately to the definition and tag format structure, with the only argument is that it doesn't provide any function (man portable RPG launcher is a specific subset of rocket launchers that is distinct enough from rocket launchers as a whole that they are known and notated by a secondary name other than just the term "man-portable RPG launcher", so we will eternally disagree on this point I fear), but majority should never overwrite logic and format consistancy.

123easy said:
"majority says it works that way" should never overrule a tag working the way that the words are defined as (this includes furry-specific definitions not just dictionary definitions).

I... uh. Yes? I think? I am not sure where you're going with this, but it seems like you're implying majority rule is always a bad thing because we might vote that all apples should be tagged with purple.

Azazial said:
I... uh. Yes? I think? I am not sure where you're going with this, but it seems like you're implying majority rule is always a bad thing because we might vote that all apples should be tagged with purple.

what he's getting at is in any given discussion, there could be a majority of people wanting a tag that might not be in the literal majorities best interests. If 20 people are in a discussion, 15 saying one thing shouldn't decide the outcome for everyone even if they don't have a good point as to why it should be done their way.

Sollux said:
what he's getting at is in any given discussion, there could be a majority of people wanting a tag that might not be in the literal majorities best interests. If 20 people are in a discussion, 15 saying one thing shouldn't decide the outcome for everyone even if they don't have a good point as to why it should be done their way.

Yes. If the 15 did have a logical reason and the 5 just didn't want it that way (used to using a bad tag for example) then it should be changed. If the 15 want it changed or gone just because, it shouldn't be changed. where the 15 and the 5 both have valid points, then some sort of concensus has to be reached with both sides giving concessions (Or an admin stepping in and making a decision), but that's an individual thing.

123easy said:
man portable RPG launcher is a specific subset of rocket launchers that is distinct enough from rocket launchers as a whole that they are known and notated by a secondary name other than just the term "man-portable RPG launcher"

And what term is that, pray tell? Note: if you answer "bazooka" I will find a way to slap you in the face over the internet. I made you a handy Euler diagram. This is not a bazooka. This is not a bazooka. Neither is this. Pictured: not a bazooka. Also not a bazooka. This is a bazooka.

123easy said:
In this case there is no issue, as bazooka is used appropriately to the definition and tag format structure,

No it's not. It's the complement of mounted_launcher. We don't use complement tags because they can just as easily be found using proper search syntax, ie rocket_launcher -mounted_launcher

DrHorse said:
No it's not. It's the complement of mounted_launcher. We don't use complement tags because they can just as easily be found using proper search syntax, ie rocket_launcher -mounted_launcher

Then I guess we don't need pony as a tag, since we can just do mlp pegasus -pony and mlp unicorn -pony. We have bomber and fighter_jet that are both airplanes, why not just get rid of one because we already have the other? Your argument is just bad. Good try though.

Snowy said:
And what term is that, pray tell? Note: if you answer "bazooka" I will find a way to slap you in the face over the internet. I made you a handy Euler diagram. This is not a bazooka. This is not a bazooka. Neither is this. Pictured: not a bazooka. Also not a bazooka. This is a bazooka.

And I'm well aware that the actual weapons designated "bazooka" within the military terminology aren't that ubiquitous. The usage of the term to indicate a generalized man-portable/shoulder-fired rocket launcher is sufficiently prevalent, however, that it is noted commonly both online GIS of term 'bazooka', many not actual bazookas and offline in many a reference text (these I can't exactly provide proof of, since physical media, but I've seen it plenty, from my introduction to military books as a kid (which had air, land, and sea specializations, came with a model kit with every book as a subscription, and a fold-out with generalized design images almost like a blueprint to get into the more technical details, sorta thing) and similar materials, to school books when covering history. It is a ubiquitous term. Even the dictionary definition doesn't specify further than things like, " A shoulder-held weapon consisting of a long metal smoothbore tube for firing armor-piercing rockets at short range. [After the bazooka, a crude wind instrument made of pipes, invented and named by Bob Burns (1896-1956), American comedian, probably from bazoo, kazoo.]" instead of more specific details.

123easy said:
Then I guess we don't need pony as a tag, since we can just do mlp pegasus -pony and mlp unicorn -pony. We have bomber and fighter_jet that are both airplanes, why not just get rid of one because we already have the other? Your argument is just bad. Good try though.

Those tags do not complement each other. Airplanes aren't just military in nature, nor are small equines mythological in nature.