If you happen to be an american, this is probably the one chance to stop these companies from pushing rules on sites like E621, Steam, Itch and a lot of others as they aim to give full stop to the nonsense of them dictating what you can spend money on. If it passes no banking or cash handling business could ever dictate if your site gets ad money or not while they host furry content or anything that they dislike.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/119/hr987/text
https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/senate-bill/401/all-info

Please if you live there, try your best at stopping the madness while we still can and pester your politicians in passing the bill.

Edit: Incase you want to support this or in general just oppose what the payment processors are doing but have no idea how, heres a link to a compilation of information, links and ways to help which almost everyone can do:

https://yellat.money/

Edit 2: Additional useful links by TheGreatWolfgang:

https://chng.it/cRSvHKsbtB - Change.org petition to MasterCard, Visa & Activist Groups.
https://stopcollectiveshout.com/ - General resource site, including what this is all about and what you can do about it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/itchio/comments/1m83s71/things_you_can_do_to_counteract_payment/ - Another resource link.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/987 - Another house bill to support.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/2743 - Another house bill to support.

tester29 said:
If you happen to be an american, this is probably the one chance to stop these companies from pushing rules on sites like E621, Steam, Itch and a lot of others as they aim to give full stop to the nonsense of them dictating what you can spend money on. If it passes no banking or cash handling business could ever dictate if your site gets ad money or not while they host furry content or anything that they dislike.

Ehh... maybe not.
''SURELY a bill... that certainly seems to include a carve-out specifically to let payment processors continue to deny adult content... would secretly be pro-NSFW content?''

reginaldludwig said:
Ehh... maybe not.
''SURELY a bill... that certainly seems to include a carve-out specifically to let payment processors continue to deny adult content... would secretly be pro-NSFW content?''

The thing is that if i understand it right it can be used as precedent case or as most of these laws are blanket setups it can aswell affect the NSFW field aswell because most of these laws arent made with the logic of "its illegal to murder except". Infact what exactly is the worst that happens if this passes, nothing changes regarding us and these credit companies need to find new ways to bully people?

do you think they know about dragonfruit?

jhudson said:
do you think they know about dragonfruit?

?

Do you mind telling what do you mean?

The payment processers already banned "Furry" on Gelbooru. It's only a matter of time until they try banning it everywhere else. Which will cause about 18 years worth of art to go away on here if they succeed and around 20 years worth of art on other sites.
https://x.com/gelbooru/status/1948878208172192173

flux_afterglow said:
The payment processers already banned "Furry" on Gelbooru. It's only a matter of time until they try banning it everywhere else. Which will cause about 18 years worth of art to go away on here if they succeed and around 20 years worth of art on other sites.
https://x.com/gelbooru/status/1948878208172192173

They didn't do anything to Gelbooru, those are just the guidelines they used for Steam and Itch.io. Gelbooru's content is still up.

Worst case scenario, Gel and E6 will move to alternate processors like Civitai did.

toastwithjam said:
They didn't do anything to Gelbooru, those are just the guidelines they used for Steam and Itch.io. Gelbooru's content is still up.

Worst case scenario, Gel and E6 will move to alternate processors like Civitai did.

Hopefully, I might've mistaken it for what I thought it was, since the list was provided by gelbooru's twitter itself on what the payment processers are flagging on and furry was on that list. I'm probably misunderstanding it.

Edit: Am I just using Gelbooru wrong? Searching furry_female which shows up as having 73K in the dropdown search only shows 3 images when searched, furry_male which should have 44k shows nothing.

flux_afterglow said:
Hopefully, I might've mistaken it for what I thought it was, since the list was provided by gelbooru's twitter itself on what the payment processers are flagging on and furry was on that list. I'm probably misunderstanding it.

Edit: Am I just using Gelbooru wrong? Searching furry_female which shows up as having 73K in the dropdown search only shows 3 images when searched, furry_male which should have 44k shows nothing.

Mature content on Gel requires an account to access. Gel likely categorises furry content as mature.

toastwithjam said:
Mature content on Gel requires an account to access. Gel likely categorises furry content as mature.

Oh okay, thank you, that's exactly what it was, made an account and changed the settings. I haven't been active on the internet for a few years except for youtube and a lot of things have changed.

found a good post tree on butterfly app to point you in the direction of these shitty corporations contact information

https://bsky.app/profile/acvalens.net/post/3luuldjcji22y

jhudson said:
found a good post tree on butterfly app to point you in the direction of these shitty corporations contact information

https://bsky.app/profile/acvalens.net/post/3luuldjcji22y

This probably goes without saying, but I hope anyone who calls / writes their financial institution remembers Call Center employees and other back-office folks do not make the decisions, so you should be nice to them.

Complaints to regulated financial institutions do generally get logged, tallied, and escalated to higher levels of management. However, it depends on the nature of the complain and the kind of financial institution. The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) requires regulated money transmitters like PayPal to maintain a consumer complaint system, and they can assess fines if entities they regulate do a bad job. However, the CFPB has been decapitated and defunded under the current US administration, so PayPal may not care and can probably get away with blowing you off (to be real about it). You should still contact them if you use PayPal and feel strongly about censorship and freedom of expression. It's one of the few things we have the power to do.

Visa and Mastercard are less regulated than PayPal, and I don't think they have a legal obligation to log or respond to a complaint regarding a policy decision. However, logging complaints and reporting up the chain is generally a good business practice (especially if handling calls / mail is impacting operations) so it's probably still worth reaching out to them if you feel strongly about this issue and want to do something.

don't forget about the ACLU petitions

funkwolfie said:
don't forget about the ACLU petitions

The ACLU is probably going to be the best bet for an organization that can make a real impact. At the very least, they have a better chance than change.org petitions and twitter threads.

This is no different than mods deciding a bunch of arbitrary rules for what can and cannot be posted and enforcing selectively, suddenly people are worried just because its a big scary payment processor.

evrueliu said:
This is no different than mods deciding a bunch of arbitrary rules for what can and cannot be posted and enforcing selectively, suddenly people are worried just because its a big scary payment processor.

......what
A privately owned website deciding what it wants on its platform is in no way close to a public payment processor forcing private websites to remove content or be forced to lose the ability to handle payments

Even if bad dragon came down and decided they wanted a specific set of content removed it still wouldn't be anywhere close

This isn't even apples to oranges, it's apples to chainsaws

evrueliu said:
This is no different than mods deciding a bunch of arbitrary rules for what can and cannot be posted and enforcing selectively, suddenly people are worried just because its a big scary payment processor.

Not really. Mods deciding rules only affect the site they're moderating, while these payment processors are affecting what other private entities can host and sell. If e6 mods say "no human-only stuff", that doesn't prevent people from making and posting human stuff to FurAffinity or DeviantArt or somewhere else that's more accepting, but when Mastercard and Visa say "no nsfw content", that affects Steam, Itch.io, and a bunch of other independent private companies. Mastercard and Visa are not hosting or selling any of this themselves, they're only processing the payments between two private entities, it shouldn't matter to them what the payment is for, just that the payment is being made legally. There is also the issue of scale; Mastercard and Visa have a practical monopoly on payment processing, there's a reason the companies being pressured by them are capitulating rather than switching to someone else that doesn't demand policy changes.

evrueliu said:
This is no different than mods deciding a bunch of arbitrary rules for what can and cannot be posted and enforcing selectively, suddenly people are worried just because its a big scary payment processor.

All what payment processors do is that they handle your hard earned cash between you and the entity you are paying. Essentially they are a postal service, their job is to move the package from A to B, they cant just deny you a service because they dont like that you are sending screws to a shop nor deny the shop of their packages.

Comparing them to moderators is like saying that the folks at facebook should moderate this forum aswell because they are also moderators.

Also lets not act like the Tumblr and P.hub purge didnt happen and they didnt just purged a bunch of games from itch and steam aswell.

https://action.aclu.org/petition/mastercard-sex-work-work-end-your-unjust-policy

tester29 said:
If you happen to be an american, this is probably the one chance to stop these companies from pushing rules on sites like E621, Steam, Itch and a lot of others as they aim to give full stop to the nonsense of them dictating what you can spend money on. If it passes no banking or cash handling business could ever dictate if your site gets ad money or not while they host furry content or anything that they dislike.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/119/hr987/text
https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/senate-bill/401/all-info

Please if you live there, try your best at stopping the madness while we still can and pester your politicians in passing the bill.

honestly I wouldnt trust a bill that guy puts forth. honestly I wont get into details because that gets political but frankly I dont think he's on our side.

kathyohneke said:
honestly I wouldnt trust a bill that guy puts forth. honestly I wont get into details because that gets political but frankly I dont think he's on our side.

Yeah, it doesn't address or cover porn/sex toys/etc.

regsmutt said:
Yeah, it doesn't address or cover porn/sex toys/etc.

i find it weird people wanna ban sex toys like are they also gonna ban carrots, cucumbers, monster energy cans?

funkwolfie said:
i find it weird people wanna ban sex toys like are they also gonna ban carrots, cucumbers, monster energy cans?

"They distract people from procreative sex and What If The Children see a dildo and blah blah blah."
I do wonder if doctors find that they have to extract more objects from rectums and vaginas in areas where sex toy sale/ownership is restricted.

regsmutt said:
"They distract people from procreative sex and What If The Children see a dildo and blah blah blah."
I do wonder if doctors find that they have to extract more objects from rectums and vaginas in areas where sex toy sale/ownership is restricted.

"They distract people from procreative sex" Holy Anpu we live in a horrible timeline what next? banning condoms?

For what it's worth, I read the text of HR 987 and I did a little research. Here are my thoughts -

1) Yes, the bill was created to protect the crypto and US firearms industry, not "adult content" creators. However, as it is currently written, the bill *does* disincentivize payment processors from banning adult content across the board. However, I think a company like Visa could still make a case for pressuring a platform like Steam, Itch, Gumroad to not use Visa for adult content, even if HR 987 is signed into law. They would just need to revise their policies and document why their decision is based on data and the risk the client brings, as opposed to "political" considerations. In other words, Visa can't say "Visa is anti-porn, because furries are weird and gross." However, a Visa compliance officer can probably still strike the client if they say "this Platform has shoddy age verification controls, therefore we think some of the things being bought and sold may endanger children, which brings Legal and reputational risk to Visa".

2) The US House will not reassess until September 2025. When Congress comes back, they will have budget related matters to attended to. I think the odds of this bill passing this year are really low.

3) The bill could get marked up / amended to exclude adult content from protection. We're not at the stage where we can say what's in the bill is what the final law will look like, and as others have said, the people behind this bill have other motives, so I think it's reasonable to skeptical.

So the TL/DR is you can write a letter to your congressperson and Senators trying to get them to support the bill *if* the final version protects the legal adult content industry (be clear about that, don't say you just want HR 987 to pass), but I think your time is better spent complaining directly to the payment processors. I will sacrifice precious hours of my life calling a few of them next week. No fun, but I do care about this and want to help.

The time was a few years ago actually.. Now they are pretty far along. We need a law making access to such services protected.

you know I heard there may be another reason why payment processors are so gun-ho about doing this. Yes they are morally against this stuff but since when does morals get in the way of making money for these people? Apparently people suspect one of the big contributing factors to this was this pornhub lawsuit years ago. when CSAM was found on the website unintentionally. For whatever reason? The judge in that case decided to make visa liable too because "they let people pay for it" even if it wasnt intentional. And shortly after this lawsuit? Various payment processors started pulling this on various places. Being liable for a lawsuit for something that was definitely illegal may have made them a bit more cautious and gun ho about pulling the plug on anything that could be remotely illegal even if its in places where fictional stuff wouldn't be. Just a theory though. I see the logic to it.

toastwithjam said:
Mature content on Gel requires an account to access. Gel likely categorises furry content as mature.

GelBooru does not require an account, you can access "account" options without one and toggle the option.

Unfortunately, I don't think the law that makes payment processors not step in will actually have the effect we want, since I skimmed it and it does have some carve outs for AI... as usual.

kathyohneke said:
you know I heard there may be another reason why payment processors are so gun-ho about doing this... [snip]

Wow, I wasn't aware of the details of that case. Yes, totally plausible to me that is a big factor in what we're seeing now.

likulau said:
[Snip] ...Unfortunately, I don't think the law that makes payment processors not step in will actually have the effect we want, since I skimmed it and it does have some carve outs for AI... as usual.

I agree the law will probably not have the effect we want, but I didn't see any carve outs for AI when I read the bill. If you don't mind, can you copy-paste the text you were looking at into the thread?

kathyohneke said:
you know I heard there may be another reason why payment processors are so gun-ho about doing this. Yes they are morally against this stuff but since when does morals get in the way of making money for these people? Apparently people suspect one of the big contributing factors to this was this pornhub lawsuit years ago. when CSAM was found on the website unintentionally. For whatever reason? The judge in that case decided to make visa liable too because "they let people pay for it" even if it wasnt intentional. And shortly after this lawsuit? Various payment processors started pulling this on various places. Being liable for a lawsuit for something that was definitely illegal may have made them a bit more cautious and gun ho about pulling the plug on anything that could be remotely illegal even if its in places where fictional stuff wouldn't be. Just a theory though. I see the logic to it.

the funny thing is, the exact same thing happened on OnlyFans, snapchat and instagram, yet those places went unaffected with no repercussion and payment processors keep doping business with those, despite THOUSANDS of reports from both users and whistleblowers alike, nothing was done, and they continue doing business as if nothing happened

reginaldludwig said:
Ehh... maybe not.
''SURELY a bill... that certainly seems to include a carve-out specifically to let payment processors continue to deny adult content... would secretly be pro-NSFW content?''

I'd first like to reaffirm that the genetic fallacy doesn't apply to Tumblr users' political opinions, anything political on Tumblr can be safely discarded as incoherent garbage as the past 10-15 years has shown us.

For the record, quantitative risk assessment is stuff that's "physically" measurable (credit score, debt-to-income ratio, etc.) while something like reputational risk from porn is qualitative, which is totally different. While protecting NSFW content may have been unintentional, it's certainly a side effect to consider. So, Random Tumblr User No. 5,303,540 is wrong again. Shocker.

mklxiv said:
[snip] For the record, quantitative risk assessment is stuff that's "physically" measurable (credit score, debt-to-income ratio, etc.) while something like reputational risk from porn is qualitative, which is totally different. While protecting NSFW content may have been unintentional, it's certainly a side effect to consider. So, Random Tumblr User No. 5,303,540 is wrong again. Shocker.

You are right, but litigation risk is something that can be measured and incorporated into a quantitive risk assessment. Legal fees, settlement fees, and civil damages can be projected and modeled. That's why KathYohneke's post is relevant to this discussion.

donkdewd said:
You are right, but litigation risk is something that can be measured and incorporated into a quantitive risk assessment. Legal fees, settlement fees, and civil damages can be projected and modeled. That's why KathYohneke's post is relevant to this discussion.

Fair enough.

Anyways, the ACLU petition is at >150K signatures. Sign it if you haven't. Link's already been posted in this thread.

You have to be patient, every time censorship rears its head someone innovates a new technology that makes the censorship obsolete. Given enough time I believe the internet will become so decentralized it will be impossible for censorship to be a thing.

royalgator said:
You have to be patient, every time censorship rears its head someone innovates a new technology that makes the censorship obsolete. Given enough time I believe the internet will become so decentralized it will be impossible for censorship to be a thing.

Not a good thing to count on. Best to do your part so things don't get that bad to begin with.

So that law is garbage but you can and should call your representatives, MPs, etc. to encourage them to protect the rights to free expression and speech. Especially in the UK, but just generally if you live anywhere PayPal, Visa, and the rest do business. You should also call payment processors to advocate for adult content platforms. And importantly, keep calling regularly. And try to take up as much time as possible without being a jackass to the customer service staff. Finally, state that while you're satisfied with their customer service, you are unsatisfied with the resolution of your call.

Just because one bill is a dud doesn't mean we shouldn't mobilize.

styxghost said:
the funny thing is, the exact same thing happened on OnlyFans, snapchat and instagram, yet those places went unaffected with no repercussion and payment processors keep doping business with those, despite THOUSANDS of reports from both users and whistleblowers alike, nothing was done, and they continue doing business as if nothing happened

this happened before the onlyfans thing and may be the reason why iirc.

funkwolfie said:
"They distract people from procreative sex" Holy Anpu we live in a horrible timeline what next? banning condoms?

Uhm, pretty much, yes?
Not joking, that's the platform.

mishazgreen said:
So that law is garbage but you can and should call your representatives, MPs, etc. to encourage them to protect the rights to free expression and speech. Especially in the UK, but just generally if you live anywhere PayPal, Visa, and the rest do business. You should also call payment processors to advocate for adult content platforms. And importantly, keep calling regularly. And try to take up as much time as possible without being a jackass to the customer service staff. Finally, state that while you're satisfied with their customer service, you are unsatisfied with the resolution of your call.

Just because one bill is a dud doesn't mean we shouldn't mobilize.

Edit the main post with a link compilation of representatives and others you can bother with this issue:

https://yellat.money/

mklxiv said:
I'd first like to reaffirm that the genetic fallacy doesn't apply to Tumblr users' political opinions, anything political on Tumblr can be safely discarded as incoherent garbage as the past 10-15 years has shown us.

For the record, quantitative risk assessment is stuff that's "physically" measurable (credit score, debt-to-income ratio, etc.) while something like reputational risk from porn is qualitative, which is totally different. While protecting NSFW content may have been unintentional, it's certainly a side effect to consider. So, Random Tumblr User No. 5,303,540 is wrong again. Shocker.

Thank you for clarifying this, I've seen so many people trying to argue it "excludes" nsfw not understanding the difference between Reputational and Risk, not understanding the difference between "Icky and advertisers don't like it" and "Subprime mortgage loans" which is the risk being addressed.

Paired with ACLU push, it's the best way to keep it legal and thus protected by the bill. People naysaying because of who wrote it need to stop looking a gift horse in the mouth and take the win that this happens to cover nsfw too even if not the intent.

karaboudjan said:
Thank you for clarifying this, I've seen so many people trying to argue it "excludes" nsfw not understanding the difference between Reputational and Risk, not understanding the difference between "Icky and advertisers don't like it" and "Subprime mortgage loans" which is the risk being addressed.

Paired with ACLU push, it's the best way to keep it legal and thus protected by the bill. People naysaying because of who wrote it need to stop looking a gift horse in the mouth and take the win that this happens to cover nsfw too even if not the intent.

honestly considering recent events everywhere people are understandably a little hesitant to trust lawmakers. so you cant really blame us.

Dang I wish JCB were available everywhere. Maybe this is their chance for a major glow up.

Just adding a few more useful links:

• https://chng.it/cRSvHKsbtB - Change.org petition to MasterCard, Visa & Activist Groups.
• https://stopcollectiveshout.com/ - General resource site, including what this is all about and what you can do about it.
• https://www.reddit.com/r/itchio/comments/1m83s71/things_you_can_do_to_counteract_payment/ - Another resource link.
• https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/987 - Another house bill to support.
• https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/2743 - Another house bill to support.

thegreatwolfgang said:
Just adding a few more useful links:

• https://chng.it/cRSvHKsbtB - Change.org petition to MasterCard, Visa & Activist Groups.
• https://stopcollectiveshout.com/ - General resource site, including what this is all about and what you can do about it.
• https://www.reddit.com/r/itchio/comments/1m83s71/things_you_can_do_to_counteract_payment/ - Another resource link.
• https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/987 - Another house bill to support.
• https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/2743 - Another house bill to support.

Im always gonna appreciate more ways to stop this lunacy. Added to the main post, thank you!

mklxiv said:
Not a good thing to count on. Best to do your part so things don't get that bad to begin with.

I'm not saying don't do your part, I'm trying to say you should doom scroll or doom post. It can make people loose hope and give up completely. But honesty, petitions don't have legal backing, in reality you could get millions of people to sign it and the powers that be could say "LOL no."

dyxid said:
Pretty sure we're all hosed regardless of country.
https://x.com/gelbooru/status/1948878208172192173
Payment processors have a pretty long list of things they hate, and it's only going to grow.

pristin said:
aren't visa/mastercard getting spam-called to NOT do that? or are we talking about other payment processors?

thegreatwolfgang said:
Please move your discussion to the proper thread for it, see topic #58646.

OK, was posting reply in correct topic to that sub-thread.
Just saw this: https://x.com/gelbooru/status/1951486311749038104
*does the Dr Evil finger to chin gesture*
We need the spy that porned us. :P

alphamule said:
OK, was posting reply in correct topic to that sub-thread.
Just saw this: https://x.com/gelbooru/status/1951486311749038104
*does the Dr Evil finger to chin gesture*
We need the spy that porned us. :P

honestly a bit conspiratorial considering it started in counties the states have no jurisdiction in.

kathyohneke said:
honestly a bit conspiratorial considering it started in counties the states have no jurisdiction in.

I remember this sort of thing going back wayyyyyy before even Operation Choke Point, to be fair, yeah. eBay/Paypal rules early on were the most infamous examples. It just feels like it's awfully convenient timing, though.

The Orange Man recently signed an executive order that's supposed to guarantee fair banking regardless of political or reputational risks. The scope of the EO encompasses credit unions, savings associations, and other financial service providers (which most certainly includes the likes of Visa/Discover/PayPal).

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/08/guaranteeing-fair-banking-for-all-americans/

nero1024 said:
The Orange Man recently signed an executive order that's supposed to guarantee fair banking regardless of political or reputational risks. The scope of the EO encompasses credit unions, savings associations, and other financial service providers (which most certainly includes the likes of Visa/Discover/PayPal).

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/08/guaranteeing-fair-banking-for-all-americans/

But does it Blockchain? :P

nero1024 said:
The Orange Man recently signed an executive order that's supposed to guarantee fair banking regardless of political or reputational risks. The scope of the EO encompasses credit unions, savings associations, and other financial service providers (which most certainly includes the likes of Visa/Discover/PayPal).

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/08/guaranteeing-fair-banking-for-all-americans/

Still, don't give up with the calls. Even with the executive order (which people should be reading in its entirety), keep contacting payment processors so the change we want happens sooner rather than later.