The bulk update request #11391 is pending approval.

create alias snout_fuck (1485) -> snout_penetration (0) # has blocking transitive relationships, cannot be applied through bur
create alias beak_fuck (63) -> beak_penetration (15) # has blocking transitive relationships, cannot be applied through bur
create implication snout_fuck (1485) -> penetration (921369)

Reason: Beak_fuck implicates Beak_sex. According to the wiki, the difference is beak_fuck is a penetration tag (specifically for penetration involving a beak) while beak_sex is any sex involving a beak. Same with snout_fuck (penetration with a snout), which beak_fuck also implicates.

The tags beak_fuck and beak_sex don't make this relationship clear at all. Without reading the wiki, one might even assume "beak_sex" and "beak_fuck" would imply the same thing, which is probably why a lot of people haven't used beak_fuck (it currently stands at 63 posts). In comparison, beak_penetration and snout_penetration is clear from a glance and is how every other '<body_part>_penetration' works, which is likely what people are used to.

Snout_fuck should also imply penetration if it's for snout penetration and sex is already implied to it. All posts I can find in snout_fuck -penetration still include penetration, it just wasn't tagged.

Regardless of any outcome here you can't alias tags with existing aliases or implications in BURs, you need to either remove them first then follow up with the alias in a separate BUR or use a regular alias which will move all transatives on its own (these are your BTRs, blocking transative relationships)

You also cannot both alias a tag and add implications to it, aliased tags cannot (should not) have implications, they need to either be added before then moved with a regular alias, or added after the alias is completed
BURs are also not guaranteed to run in a specific order, so some posts would recieve the alias first (tag moved, implication not applied), and others would recieve the implication first

Note that you cannot create a regular alias in an existing topic, so to keep everything in one topic you'll have to to down the rotue of removing and recreating the existing aliases/implications

beak_penetration could very well end up ambiguous. Given we also have tags like beakjob and beak_play that get used when a fellatio is performed by someone with a beak, beak tags are treated as special oral tags for characters with a beak. Along with the fact that *_penetration tags are themselves ambiguous (e.g. oral_penetration is the mouth being penetrated, while penile_penetration is the penis doing the penetrating), beak_penetration can be inferred as a beak being penetrated like oral_penetration, or the beak doing the penetrating penile_penetration.

beak_fuck isn't completely free of that ambiguity either, but while I'm not a fan of that tag name either, I think it does help a bit to be separated from the other *_penetration tags to avoid some ambiguity.

watsit said:
beak_penetration can be inferred as a beak being penetrated like oral_penetration, or the beak doing the penetrating penile_penetration.

beak_fuck isn't completely free of that ambiguity either, but while I'm not a fan of that tag name either, I think it does help a bit to be separated from the other *_penetration tags to avoid some ambiguity.

Beak_fuck does not solve this problem because "fuck" neither implies penetrating or being penetrated. A recent BUR (forum #452451) that made aliaises for these tags doesn't clear this up either. Is beak_fucking supposed to mean someone is fucking a beak or being fucked by one? I don't see a point of breaking away from *_penetration tags if the same problems still exist. It only makes tagging more confusing imo.

watsit said:
beak tags are treated as special oral tags for characters with a beak. Along with the fact that *_penetration tags are themselves ambiguous (e.g. oral_penetration is the mouth being penetrated, while penile_penetration is the penis doing the penetrating)

I understand what you mean but this seems like an issue with the *_penetration tag in general.

However, the wiki for snout_fuck states it's for snouts penetrating another (plus, realistically, anyone tagging a snout being penetrated would just use something like oral_penetration). Considering beak_fuck implicates snout_fuck and the previously mentioned forum (forum #452451) intended to "be consistent with both tags", I can assume beak_fuck is also meant for beaks penetrating another, not beaks being penetrated. This is also supported by the fact, that every post on the tag seems to be a beak penetrating another character in some way.

If we can clarify that "fuck" in this case means the snout/muzzle/beak penetrating another and not being penetrated, then if we really wanted to avoid ambiguity then *_insertion could be used instead (aliasing snout_fuck -> snout_insertion) and perhaps at some point adding some less ambiguous alias like snout_penetrating or beak_penetrating to the respective tag instead of "fucking" . The *_insertion tags are more commonly used for other *_fetish penetration like food_insertion, which beak_fuck is also considered (beak_fetish).

donovan_dmc said:
Regardless of any outcome here you can't alias tags with existing aliases or implications in BURs, you need to either remove them first then follow up with the alias in a separate BUR or use a regular alias which will move all transatives on its own (these are your BTRs, blocking transative relationships)

Ah okay, so I would need to use two regular alias for the aliases. I will just do them separately, and following Watsit's comment, I'll use snout_insertion and beak_insertion respectively instead because both tags are only used for insertion and it removes ambiguity. ( Updated: forum #454570 )

forestwander said:
Ah okay, so I would need to use two regular alias for the aliases. I will just do them separately, and following Watsit's comment, I'll use snout_insertion and beak_insertion respectively instead because both tags are only used for insertion and it removes ambiguity. ( forum #454553 snout_fuck -> snout_insertion)

How did you miss @Donovan_DMC's comment that "Note that you cannot create a regular alias in an existing topic, so to keep everything in one topic you'll have to go down the route of removing and recreating the existing aliases/implications."

You are encouraged to make multiple BURs in one single topic instead of creating multiple different requests. You can also edit your current BUR to remove the blocking transitive relationships and making it work.

The bulk update request #11394 is pending approval.

remove alias muzzle_fuck (0) -> snout_fuck (1485)
remove alias muzzlefuck (0) -> snout_fuck (1485)
remove alias muzzle_fucking (0) -> snout_fuck (1485)
remove alias muzzlefucking (0) -> snout_fuck (1485)
remove alias snoutfucking (0) -> snout_fuck (1485)
remove alias snout_fucking (0) -> snout_fuck (1485)
remove alias snoutfuck (0) -> snout_fuck (1485)
remove alias beak_fucking (0) -> beak_fuck (63)
remove alias beakfucking (0) -> beak_fuck (63)
remove alias beakfuck (0) -> beak_fuck (63)
remove implication snout_fuck (1485) -> oral (322339)
remove implication snout_fuck (1485) -> sex (1123812)
remove implication beak_fuck (63) -> beak_sex (3270)
remove implication beak_fuck (63) -> snout_fuck (1485)

Reason: As previously stated, the *_fuck tags for snout_fuck and beak_fuck are ambiguous and could be misinterpreted. This BUR is to remove the current aliases/implications and move it to a more appropriately named tag. Considering both tags are only used for a character penetrating another character with their snout/beak, I think snout_insertion and beak_insertion respectively would be the better choice (similar to tail_insertion and food_insertion).

I ctrl+f'd for with and didn't see any tags, so I'm tossing in my two cents: alias these to something like penetrating_with_snout versus fucking_snout/penetrating_snout.

You remove the ambiguity of the object doing the penetrating and being penetrated: penetrating_with_snout can only reasonably be interpreted to mean using a snout to penetrate, and penetrating_snout or the fucking version convey a snout being penetrated. Same for the beak variants. By comparison, snout_insertion is not entirely clear to me whether the snout is being inserted or something is being inserted into a snout. I could see this especially being a problem for novice uploaders and taggers. tail_insertion and food_insertion can get away with the format more since those typically do not have orifices that could be inserted into instead.

song said:
I ctrl+f'd for with and didn't see any tags, so I'm tossing in my two cents: alias these to something like penetrating_with_snout versus fucking_snout/penetrating_snout.

You remove the ambiguity of the object doing the penetrating and being penetrated: penetrating_with_snout can only reasonably be interpreted to mean using a snout to penetrate, and penetrating_snout or the fucking version convey a snout being penetrated. Same for the beak variants. ...

Honestly, I could get behind using that as the normal way to tag what's doing the penetrating. The less ambiguous *_penetration tags that refer to something penetrating can be aliased, while the more ambiguous ones can be invalidated/disambiguated with a wiki mentioning the correct tag.