Tagging off topic because it's not related to the broader function of e6.

The writing's on the wall for a AZ governor flip come 2026, spamming Hobbs (more or less a lame duck at this point) and astroturfing AZ House Republicans (proves their point) isn't going to accomplish anything. HB 2112 is going to pass, if not now, then later and harsher with a GOP supermajority.

Save for proximity to Bad Dragon, Arizona is a horrible place to run a server of fringe content. Relocating to another jurisdiction is the only long term solution; I've held hopes that furry tech wizardry would pull through, but not when this site's still trying to lobby the immovable. If for some reason e6 waits until the last second to leave, then that paints a massive target on it's back -- unwanted in a time of Trump 2.0, cultural revolution, and impending generational GOP popular illiberalism. Dead serious, this thing's only going to escalate.

If e6 wants to survive, it needs to go a liberal stronghold (WA, CA, NY) or a place that doesn't care (Eastern Europe, Island Nations, parts of Latin America).

And for anyone who believes to the contrary, there are conservative users (I'd wager as large as a ~30% silent minority) of e6, who don't care about idpol, and agree with HB 2112 on principle. Framing this thing as a crusade against evil conservatives pits you with all the other movements dying to their own zealotry, incompetence, and infighting.

If there is a plan for all this, cool, let people know, suspiciously time server maintainence, and stop acting like this is a thing about politics rather than policy. I'd love to believe this is all a diversionary psyop, but asking your users to astroturf other states with their sex, first name, last name, street address, and ZIP code, and the politicized messaging leads me to believe there is a gross and reversible misunderstanding about the ongoing legal situation.

This is your wake up call and your glimpse into the future, to whomever it may concern.

Nobody's going to move anything until they absolutely have to because it would be prohibitively expensive

Currently e6 is ran on on-premises servers (or at the very least close by with a hosting company BD has a stake in) which is significantly cheaper than any cloud hosting would ever be, which would be required to move into a state or country where no management office is located

It's never as simple as "just move locations", stop badgering people like it is

There was already a similar thread on topic #55289.

You will never get an answer from the owners if there will be something implemented until it happens.
Most of the admins here can't do anything since they aren't employees of the company that owns e621 (barred from an inactive few).

I'm not expert on American law, so clearly take this with a grain of salt, but I would also be surprised if the location of the servers was all that mattered. If Bad Dragon, a registered company in Arizona, are taken to court in Arizona for breaching HB 2112 I wouldn't be confident in "But but our servers are hosted in the Principality of Sealand" being the legal defense that would save them. Especially if they're still wilfully distributing the content to Arizona residents.

Even if that defense works for now, it will probably be a loophole that lawmakers will attempt to close at some point given how easy it is to host content in different jurisdictions to get away with it.

Additionally many of the places that "don't care" actually have more restrictive pornography laws than the United States, but are generally unenforced because it's too difficult pursuing the hundreds of thousands of individuals distributing it. A large website like e621 relocating there would likely be a different story. It really wouldn't make much sense to move to somewhere that it's currently legal to somewhere that's technically illegal, especially somewhere that Bad Dragon staff wouldn't have physical ties to.

faucet said:
I'm not expert on American law, so clearly take this with a grain of salt, but I would also be surprised if the location of the servers was all that mattered. If Bad Dragon, a registered company in Arizona, are taken to court in Arizona for breaching HB 2112 I wouldn't be confident in "But but our servers are hosted in the Principality of Sealand" being the legal defense that would save them. Especially if they're still wilfully distributing the content to Arizona residents.

I think this is correct. I am not licensed to practice law in Arizona or anywhere else, but I am sure just moving the "servers" will not totally reduce this website's litigation risk under the Arizona law.

The business that owns the website might be able to restructure to become legally organized in another state or another country, and that would do more to reduce litigation risk than "moving the servers", but that is not a simple fix either. Consider...

1) Tax costs and compliance risk. If an organization controlled by US persons becomes a foreign corporation, the organization's taxes and compliance costs may go up. US persons who own small for-profit foreign corporations are generally still subject to US taxes, plus whatever the tax and compliance costs are in the country they legally domicile in.

2) Making your organization more legally complex means you generally need to hire new lawyers and accountants who can help you incorporate in another state or country and file your taxes properly. This can be expensive. I am sure the website's owners do not want to spend this money unless they have to.

Apple is famously legally incorporated in Ireland for tax reasons, and many US for-profit companies are organized in the state of Delaware, but these companies also invest in legal and compliance resources so they don't fuck up their fillings and get into legal / IRS trouble. It is a lot to ask a small business to do this!

Finally, even if you incorporate in the safest possible domicile and do all of your legal paperwork and taxes right, if you are a US person living in Arizona, you still might get sued under this law, and an Arizona court still might find you liable. There is no "one weird trick" to become invulnerable to the laws of the place you live in. Only a lawyer who licensed to practice law in Arizona could tell you what the risks are... and legal advice is expensive!

TL:DR - this potential law and the other laws all suck and could - best case scenario - make it very hard to continue running this website without taking financial losses. I am hoping the laws that do get through are stopped by the Courts, but nothing is guaranteed. I think people should just read the messages, take action if they can, and not kid themselves into thinking there is no risk here, or an easy fix.

anon55317 said:
Tagging off topic because it's not related to the broader function of e6.

The writing's on the wall for a AZ governor flip come 2026, spamming Hobbs (more or less a lame duck at this point) and astroturfing AZ House Republicans (proves their point) isn't going to accomplish anything. HB 2112 is going to pass, if not now, then later and harsher with a GOP supermajority.

Save for proximity to Bad Dragon, Arizona is a horrible place to run a server of fringe content. Relocating to another jurisdiction is the only long term solution; I've held hopes that furry tech wizardry would pull through, but not when this site's still trying to lobby the immovable. If for some reason e6 waits until the last second to leave, then that paints a massive target on it's back -- unwanted in a time of Trump 2.0, cultural revolution, and impending generational GOP popular illiberalism. Dead serious, this thing's only going to escalate.

If e6 wants to survive, it needs to go a liberal stronghold (WA, CA, NY) or a place that doesn't care (Eastern Europe, Island Nations, parts of Latin America).

And for anyone who believes to the contrary, there are conservative users (I'd wager as large as a ~30% silent minority) of e6, who don't care about idpol, and agree with HB 2112 on principle. Framing this thing as a crusade against evil conservatives pits you with all the other movements dying to their own zealotry, incompetence, and infighting.

If there is a plan for all this, cool, let people know, suspiciously time server maintainence, and stop acting like this is a thing about politics rather than policy. I'd love to believe this is all a diversionary psyop, but asking your users to astroturf other states with their sex, first name, last name, street address, and ZIP code, and the politicized messaging leads me to believe there is a gross and reversible misunderstanding about the ongoing legal situation.

This is your wake up call and your glimpse into the future, to whomever it may concern.

A governor flip is going to really depend more on who is running rather than legislature itself, since the legislature has always been quite the shitshow, and the population is pretty much centered around Phoenix (and Tuscon to a lesser extent) meaning many of these wackos represent either a district with like 5 rich people or bumfuck nowhere. It also (not trying to be political but this is sort of how it shook out in 2020, and why Lake got told to "get fucked") depends on how much more Trump shits the bed until midterms, since the opponent will likely be a hardcore trumper and if things are really bad they'd get wrecked in the general.

That's not to say it isn't a possibility, but Arizona is very weird in that it tends to lean old-school Libertarian so even if such a thing passes the voters will throw shitfit. (At least I hope, demographic shifts may not be so kind)

There's like, no point in continuing to talk about this. Today's the last day she can veto the bill, and we haven't seen anything. It's going to become law now regardless of how the public hates it.

joeyski said:
There's like, no point in continuing to talk about this. Today's the last day she can veto the bill, and we haven't seen anything. It's going to become law now regardless of how the public hates it.

Article 5, Section 7 of Arizona State Constitution (which concerns vetoes): https://www.azleg.gov/viewDocument/?docName=https://www.azleg.gov/const/5/7.htm

The 13th is the final day since the 11th is a Sunday.

anon55317 said:

The writing's on the wall for a AZ governor flip come 2026, spamming Hobbs (more or less a lame duck at this point) and astroturfing AZ House Republicans (proves their point) isn't going to accomplish anything

really? I heard from my friends in the state she's pretty popular in the state to the point she will probably hold her seat.

edit: looking at the polls too she's ahead in most of them and as time goes by (especially with "the troubles" down there) her polls are going more and more in her favour so she MAY be safe. but who knows its still a year and a half off.