The tag alias #75963 twin_towers_(new_york_city) -> world_trade_center is pending approval.

Reason: The Twin Towers in NYC were a part of the World Trade Center. The antecedent is used exclusively on posts that already have both the general twin_towers tag as well as the world_trade_center tag, thus making twin_towers_(new_york_city) redundant

Should be an implication. World Trade Center can refer to both the original complex of buildings in manhattan, destroyed in the September 11 attacks, and the rebuilt complex on the same site.

You should know since the last time this was brought up, topic #54543, that the tag world_trade_center is ambiguous and should not be used to mean the Twin Towers, as it could also apply to the One World Trade Center or any other world trade centres in the world.

thegreatwolfgang said:
You should know since the last time this was brought up, topic #54543, that the tag world_trade_center is ambiguous and should not be used to mean the Twin Towers, as it could also apply to the One World Trade Center or any other world trade centres in the world.

As was brought up by both SNPthecat and faucet in that proposal, different World Trade Centers are suffexed or prefixed with the city they are located in while the one in Newy York City is the only one to be called just World Trade Center. You are correct that world_trade_center could be used for any of the buildings in the WTC, however I don't thing that we need to specifically have a exclusively for the NYC wtc twin towers as twin_towers + world_trade_center returns the exact same results as twin_towers_(new_york_city). Keeping that tag would result in those pictures being tagged twin_towers world_trade_center new_york_city twin_towers_(new_york_city)

So you're saying that twin_towers_(new_york_city) is functionally identical to just having both tags twin_towers world_trade_center, if I understand correctly?

It raises the concern that the current 1WTC would be findable only as world_trade_center -twin_towers... but I see it is currently being tagged as freedom_tower (which may need an update).

I don't have a strong opinion on this specifically either way though (IMO it can be a fair concession to taggers' convenience to have tags that spawn several others by implication).

[edit] fix link

lurkingfox said:
So you're saying that twin_towers_(new_york_city) is functionally identical to just having both tags twin_towers world_trade_center, if I understand correctly?

It raises the concern that the current 1WTC would be findable only as world_trade_center -twin_towers... but I see it is currently being tagged as freedom tower (which may need an update).

I don't have a strong opinion on this specifically either way though (IMO it can be a fair concession to taggers' convenience to have tags that spawn several others by implication).

That is correct

We should probably alias freedom_tower to one_world_trade_center as well since that is the official name

lust_demon_laz said:
As was brought up by both SNPthecat and faucet in that proposal, different World Trade Centers are suffexed or prefixed with the city they are located in while the one in Newy York City is the only one to be called just World Trade Center.

Nope, we never agreed that the one in New York would be the only one to be called "World Trade Center".

There are many world trade centres in the world which are simply named as "World Trade Center/WTC", but have their city's name included for disambiguation purposes on Wikipedia.
The only popularly named "World Trade Center" which does not have the city's name included is the original Twin Towers in New York.

You are correct that world_trade_center could be used for any of the buildings in the WTC, however I don't thing that we need to specifically have a exclusively for the NYC wtc twin towers as twin_towers + world_trade_center returns the exact same results as twin_towers_(new_york_city). Keeping that tag would result in those pictures being tagged twin_towers world_trade_center new_york_city twin_towers_(new_york_city)

Nope, that was not my intention either.

The tag for the Twin Towers should be kept as twin_towers_(new_york_city), whereas twin_towers and world_trade_center are terribly vague tags that should be disambiguated for their own reasons.

thegreatwolfgang said:
Nope, we never agreed that the one in New York would be the only one to be called "World Trade Center".

There are many world trade centres in the world which are simply named as "World Trade Center/WTC", but have their city's name included for disambiguation purposes on Wikipedia.
The only popularly named "World Trade Center" which does not have the city's name included is the original Twin Towers in New York.

Nope, that was not my intention either.

The tag for the Twin Towers should be kept as twin_towers_(new_york_city), whereas twin_towers and world_trade_center are terribly vague tags that should be disambiguated for their own reasons.

How is twin_towers vague? Twin towers are any pair of high rises that are copies of eachother. Examples being the former 1 & 2 World Trade Center in NYC, the Petronas Towers, the Kharraqan towers, etc.

And if you think world_trade_center should be disambiguated, then why did you thumbs down aliasing the current tag to world_trade_center_(new_york_city)? I haven't found any posts on here of any of the other world trade centers, and even if there were another it would need something beyond just world_trade_center, example would be world_trade_center_of_new_orleans, or seaport_world_trade_center, etc.

Edit: Also, the wiki for world_trade_center specifically and exclusively describes the New York City complex

lust_demon_laz said:
How is twin_towers vague? Twin towers are any pair of high rises that are copies of eachother. Examples being the former 1 & 2 World Trade Center in NYC, the Petronas Towers, the Kharraqan towers, etc.

Vague as in it could mean any of the above towers that you have mentioned.
There is no purpose keeping a vague tag like that when you can tag the specific towers instead.

And if you think world_trade_center should be disambiguated, then why did you thumbs down aliasing the current tag to world_trade_center_(new_york_city)? I haven't found any posts on here of any of the other world trade centers, and even if there were another it would need something beyond just world_trade_center, example would be world_trade_center_of_new_orleans, or seaport_world_trade_center, etc.

None of your aliases suggest that.

topic #54543 suggests aliasing world_trade_center to world_trade_center_(new_york_city), which got rejected since we don't alias vague tags to specific tags on principle.
topic #56027 suggests aliasing twin_towers_(new_york_city) to world_trade_center, which again, is going to be rejected because you are aliasing a specific (useful) tag to a vague (useless) tag.

If you want to make twin_towers_(new_york_city) be aliased to world_trade_center_(new_york_city), go ahead and make a new alias request.
You would probably run into the same issue with it being confused with one_world_trade_center/freedom_tower.

As for this current series of tag aliases, no tag should be aliased to world_trade_center for the reasons I have already mentioned.
Instead, world_trade_center should be aliased to world_trade_center_(disambiguation) so that it forces people to choose between which WTC they are referring to.

Edit: Also, the wiki for world_trade_center specifically and exclusively describes the New York City complex

Okay, would you want me to edit the wiki so that it says otherwise?

thegreatwolfgang said:
Vague as in it could mean any of the above towers that you have mentioned.
There is no purpose keeping a vague tag like that when you can tag the specific towers instead.

None of your aliases suggest that.

topic #54543 suggests aliasing world_trade_center to world_trade_center_(new_york_city), which got rejected since we don't alias vague tags to specific tags on principle.
topic #56027 suggests aliasing twin_towers_(new_york_city) to world_trade_center, which again, is going to be rejected because you are aliasing a specific (useful) tag to a vague (useless) tag.

If you want to make twin_towers_(new_york_city) be aliased to world_trade_center_(new_york_city), go ahead and make a new alias request.
You would probably run into the same issue with it being confused with one_world_trade_center/freedom_tower.

As for this current series of tag aliases, no tag should be aliased to world_trade_center for the reasons I have already mentioned.
Instead, world_trade_center should be aliased to world_trade_center_(disambiguation) so that it forces people to choose between which WTC they are referring to.

Okay, would you want me to edit the wiki so that it says otherwise?

What about twin towers that are generic and/or not identifiable as a specific development like post 2876403 or post 9580 ?

I think it's misguided that you class them as useless though. Is shoes useless just because the exact type of shoe isn't necessarily specified? What about furniture or clothed? Having general (or vague as you put it) tags can he helpful. In the case of twin_towers what if someone can't remember the specific name of the building(s) but still remembers that the image they're looking for has a pair of twin towers in it?

As for the rest, you clearly have very strong feelings about how specific these tags need to be while I don't see the point in being so specific for such a niche group of tags. If you want to propose or conduct disambiguations go right ahead, no one's stopping you.

Same goes for the world_trade_center wiki I certainly have no authority, so go ahead edit it

That all said, I'm throwing in the towel. Sorry for causing such frustration

lust_demon_laz said:
What about twin towers that are generic and/or not identifiable as a specific development like post #2876403 or post #9580 ?

Observe post #2168276, post #4448621, & post #4505700 which are also tagged under twin_towers.

Again, if we are allowing every generic twin towers into tag, then the tag serves no other purpose other than showing a pair of towers, which makes it trivial/useless and may even fall into the realm of overly_specific tagging.
Are we going to have a one_tower, three_towers, etc?

I think it's misguided that you class them as useless though. Is shoes useless just because the exact type of shoe isn't necessarily specified? What about furniture or clothed? Having general (or vague as you put it) tags can he helpful. In the case of twin_towers what if someone can't remember the specific name of the building(s) but still remembers that the image they're looking for has a pair of twin towers in it?

It's too niche to be useful unlike all the other tags you have mentioned. Umbrella tags are there to make searching and blacklisting practical when there are a bunch of related tags.
As there are only a handful of twin towers actually tagged here, it would be faster to just search for the specific names themselves.

It would be a different case if there were actually a whole ton of other twin towers being tagged and would require an umbrella tag to group them all together, but even then, I'd argue the practicality and even validity of it if only one of the twin towers are shown instead (e.g., post #1352726).

As for the rest, you clearly have very strong feelings about how specific these tags need to be while I don't see the point in being so specific for such a niche group of tags. If you want to propose or conduct disambiguations go right ahead, no one's stopping you.

Same goes for the world_trade_center wiki I certainly have no authority, so go ahead edit it

That all said, I'm throwing in the towel. Sorry for causing such frustration

Alright, I pushed ahead a disambiguation on topic #56045.