In the TWYS system, tags like humor, why, what have no place as they are highly subjective and cannot be 'seen'.

Take humor for example. I might find post #5311832 hilarious but you don't, and vice versa. A post may have a simple knock knock joke- but wait, dialogue/text is considered external info, not valid for TWYS.

Or the wide variety of posts in what or why. It can range from posts of a shaved Lugia (post #5196923) to a video of a penguin getting elbowed at the dentist (post #3843414).

Tags like these are far too generic and subjective to be useful. Blacklisting them can block many posts that a user may otherwise want to see, all because Timmy didn't like that Bluey was drawn as a.. *checks post #3693722* ..a square

Not creating a BUR yet to gauge other opinions

I broadly agree. These seem like the sorts of things sets should be for.

I think there could be a place for tonal tags such as humor or sad, if they describe the intended tone of the work and not just an individual's personal opinion, but then intended tone can also be subjective.

There's enough cues that signal when something is supposed to be a joke/humorous that it's usually recognizable regardless on how funny you actually find it. You might (correctly) find Adam Sandler's movie Click terribly unfunny, but you're still unlikely to mistake it for an intended drama. The tag is 'humor' not 'hilarious' for a reason.

As for what/why/what_has_science_done/where_is_your_god_now I don't have an argument for why they should stay other than I like them and removing the tags would make me sad.

regsmutt said:
As for what/why/what_has_science_done/where_is_your_god_now I don't have an argument for why they should stay other than I like them and removing the tags would make me sad.

If anything, they give a means for people to easily blacklist things that are considered "weird" to the average individual. These posts often get dozens - sometimes hundreds - of downvotes for being weird or unsettling or otherwise strange, and giving a means to blacklist them prevents that number from being worse. [plus, lots of other people love these posts, and they can serve as a means to find new concepts].
Lots of these posts under what and similar have very niche and one-off concepts that would bloat blacklists if you were to blacklist them individually.

Though there shouldn't be more than one of these tags. They all really refer to pretty much the same thing. I'm here for a "general weirdcore" tag that's like... kinder in name than the ones we already have. "why", "where is your god now", and "what has science done" hearkens to cringe culture and feels more mean-spirited about the unusual more than anything. Not sure what else it would be called, though.

beholding said:
I think there could be a place for tonal tags such as humor or sad, if they describe the intended tone of the work and not just an individual's personal opinion, but then intended tone can also be subjective.

regsmutt said:
There's enough cues that signal when something is supposed to be a joke/humorous that it's usually recognizable regardless on how funny you actually find it. You might (correctly) find Adam Sandler's movie Click terribly unfunny, but you're still unlikely to mistake it for an intended drama. The tag is 'humor' not 'hilarious' for a reason.

Perhaps a switch over to meta tags could help clarify, labelling the intended tone/genre, like horror, humor, wholesome, sad, etc

moonlit-comet said:
If anything, they give a means for people to easily blacklist things that are considered "weird" to the average individual. These posts often get dozens - sometimes hundreds - of downvotes for being weird or unsettling or otherwise strange, and giving a means to blacklist them prevents that number from being worse. [plus, lots of other people love these posts, and they can serve as a means to find new concepts].
Lots of these posts under what and similar have very niche and one-off concepts that would bloat blacklists if you were to blacklist them individually.

Even with that ideology, there's a lot of mistags. Like post #3894935 isn't weird to the 'average individuals'. It's just a drawing of Bandit Heeler. Without the tag messytails I'd have no clue that it was some kind of reference. Even then, I have no clue what the reference is to. There's no explanation anywhere on the site.

I don't think 'blacklist bloat' is a relevant argument. Tag bloat and people who don't use their blacklists are a way bigger problem that people who have hundreds of tags in their blacklist (like myself). I don't know of any complaints from staff saying 'we are running out of space from people using too many tags'

dirtyderg said:
Perhaps a switch over to meta tags could help clarify, labelling the intended tone/genre, like horror, humor, wholesome, sad, etc

I don't think tone fits the meta category at all. Meta is stuff like dimensions and media used. Putting tone/genre in meta would be like putting background or color tags in meta.

dirtyderg said:
Perhaps a switch over to meta tags could help clarify, labelling the intended tone/genre, like horror, humor, wholesome, sad, etc

hmmm... that might work, medium and format in meta which are marginally adjacent to genre, I think it could make sense for overall genre/themes to go there, but it feels like it'd be kinda hard to find where to draw the line on that one, especially since meta is a locked category. for some of the trope-y subgenre things that we have tags for, like lay_the_dragon, would those also be meta?

dirtyderg said:
Perhaps a switch over to meta tags could help clarify, labelling the intended tone/genre, like horror, humor, wholesome, sad, etc

That's an interesting idea. I think it would make sense for genres especially; it's not always obvious that a given series is fantasy or science fiction from an individual page, for instance. I don't know if tone might be considered too subjective for meta, though.

The bulk update request #10784 is pending approval.

remove alias comedic_gold (0) -> humor (47128)
remove alias comedy (0) -> humor (47128)
remove alias comedy_gold (0) -> humor (47128)
remove alias funny (0) -> humor (47128)
remove alias humor_porn (7) -> humor (47128)
remove alias humorous (0) -> humor (47128)
remove alias humour (0) -> humor (47128)
remove alias lol (0) -> humor (47128)
remove alias lulz (0) -> humor (47128)
remove implication joke (1130) -> humor (47128)
remove implication pun (4773) -> humor (47128)

Reason: A proposal for the removal of the opinionated tags humor, what, and why as discussed above, but without completely removing as BUR #10772 had proposed. There's plenty more opinionated tags, but until a consensus is reached I think it's better to limit it to these three, the most commonly used.

Adds the _(tone) suffix to humor.

I had proposed switching to a meta tag, but that seems to need more discussion.

The bulk update request #10785 is pending approval.

remove alias bizzare (8) -> what (14808)
remove alias dafuq (0) -> what (14808)
remove alias lolwut (0) -> what (14808)
remove alias no (0) -> what (14808)
remove alias no_seriously_what (0) -> what (14808)
remove alias random (0) -> what (14808)
remove alias strange (0) -> what (14808)
remove alias wait_what (0) -> what (14808)
remove alias wat (0) -> what (14808)
remove alias weird (0) -> what (14808)
remove alias what? (0) -> what (14808)
remove alias what_in_the_sam_hell (0) -> what (14808)
remove alias what_is_this_i_don't_even (0) -> what (14808)
remove alias what_is_this_i_dont_even (0) -> what (14808)
remove alias what_the_christ (0) -> what (14808)
remove alias what_the_fuck (0) -> what (14808)
remove alias what_the_fucking_fuck (0) -> what (14808)
remove alias what_the_shit (0) -> what (14808)
remove alias wtf (0) -> what (14808)
remove alias wut (0) -> what (14808)

Reason: Currently I can't think of any better alternative to what or why than cursed_image.

The bulk update request #10786 is pending approval.

remove alias oh_god_why (0) -> why (2752)
remove alias has_science_gone_too_far (0) -> what_has_science_done (4175)
remove alias god_has_abandoned_us (0) -> where_is_your_god_now (2313)
remove alias there_is_no_god (0) -> where_is_your_god_now (2313)
remove alias what_in_the_unholiest_depths_of_hell (0) -> where_is_your_god_now (2313)
remove alias wheres_your_god_now (0) -> where_is_your_god_now (2313)
remove alias where's_your_god_now (0) -> where_is_your_god_now (2313)

Reason: Continuation of above, with what has science done and where is your god now

I'm firmly against the removal of the tags — they may not have a real purpose, but they're tradition, they're part of the site's character — so I'm going to downvote the latter two.

Basically I'm with Regsmutt on this.

regsmutt said:
As for what/why/what_has_science_done/where_is_your_god_now I don't have an argument for why they should stay other than I like them and removing the tags would make me sad.

Probably a losing battle, but I don't have to be happy about it.

lendrimujina said:
I'm firmly against the removal of the tags — they may not have a real purpose, but they're tradition, they're part of the site's character — so I'm going to downvote the latter two.

Basically I'm with Regsmutt on this.

Probably a losing battle, but I don't have to be happy about it.

Also I think 'cursed image' is just as subjective while also being a kinda outdated meme phrase. "What" is eternal.

I don't like humor_(tone) as a tag name, as it gives the impression that the post is humorous. It's possible to make a joke or pun that isn't intended to be funny (even if the character making the joke or pun intends it to be). And it's also possible for a joke or pun to occur in a serious or dark event. For instance, imagine a character stalking another in the dark and taunts them with a bad pun as they attack ("What did the bisharp say to the little eevee? Slice to meet you!" as bisharp starts cutting at the eevee). That would be a pun, and an attempt at (dark) humor, but it's not really a humorous tone and more of a horrific or gruesome one.

humor at least can be read as something a character is attempting in-universe, even if others don't find it funny, while humor_(tone) reads like it's declaring the post to be humorous, which different people will have different opinions on.

lendrimujina said:
I'm firmly against the removal of the tags — they may not have a real purpose, but they're tradition, they're part of the site's character — so I'm going to downvote the latter two.

Basically I'm with Regsmutt on this.

I agree too, hell those "opinionated tags" have better wiki pages than a lot of other tags, and as mentioned they are an easy way to contain grosser stuff that people might not want to see.

And yeah cursed images I don't think fit the vibe of those tags, what/why are timeless, shorter, and far less subjective

I'm seeing quite a few BURs like this recently. When making a BUR, I think the creator should ask themselves "In what way does this BUR benefit the site?" and "Is the state after the BUR better than before the BUR?"

These tags are actually serving a purpose. Sure, they may not perfectly align with most tags, but I believe their inclusion is justified. TWYS is the norm, but there are exceptions.

Combining all of these into cursed_image just creates one big nebulous tag. Smaller, more well defined tags are more useful.

Additionally, cursed_image is just as speculative in terms of how much 'wtf' an image has as the current ones. It won't actually accomplish what you're trying to do.

Always hated the "cringe" type tags, but I suspect the vast majority of users are too attached to their edgy 2010 "Hans get the flammenwerfer" culture to ever get rid of them. Like Derg said, opinons have no place in a TWYS system, especially not the what_has_science_done / where_is_your_god_now type tags that exist entirely as an "I think this post is disgusting" badge. Not like it's gonna kill me if they stay, of course, but that's my two cents