Topic: Tag implication: webm -> animated

Posted under Tag Alias and Implication Suggestions

faucet

Member

Personally I don't understand why we use the literal dictionary definition of "animated" rather than using it like the looser context of an animated gif, or simply just something that isn't still.

I brought this up in topic #36735, with my key points being:

  • If there's no animated tag, there's no "anim" indicator on the image thumbnail, leading to people thinking it's a static image with only the one frame they see in the thumbnail.
  • In the site code the animated_gif and animated tags will automatically be applied to any gif file containing two or more frames, other filetypes have similar checks. If slideshows aren't counted as animation, this should be removed from the code as it's actively creating mistagged posts.

Though it's worth reading the rest of the topic too.

Peskeon

Member

Besides which it's not exactly like we post pure audio, or videos that are just a still frame with music playing outside of it. And posts that would be a series of hasty ms paint screenshots are nearly unexistant. Thus a vast majority of webms on e6 are animated. As for "slideshows", they are to me, very low framerate animations.

Watsit

Privileged

The fact that there's no [anim] tag on thumbnails without the animated tag says to me the tag should always be there for anything that's not a still image, even slideshows. animated_png, a tag for APNGs, implies animated regardless of the apng being a slideshow or not, and multiframe gifs are automatically tagged animated (not even via an implication, it's forced at a lower level by the site code). I don't see any reason for webm to not also get tagged with animated.

The only reason I could see not doing this is webm seems like a superfluous tag; it's the same as filetype:webm, and we don't use normal tags like png or gif or jpeg to indicate the filetype, making webm (and animated_png) kinda stick out.

dba afish

Member

watsit said:
The fact that there's no [anim] tag on thumbnails without the animated tag says to me the tag should always be there for anything that's not a still image, even slideshows. animated_png, a tag for APNGs, implies animated regardless of the apng being a slideshow or not, and multiframe gifs are automatically tagged animated (not even via an implication, it's forced at a lower level by the site code). I don't see any reason for webm to not also get tagged with animated.

The only reason I could see not doing this is webm seems like a superfluous tag; it's the same as filetype:webm, and we don't use normal tags like png or gif or jpeg to indicate the filetype, making webm (and animated_png) kinda stick out.

what if it's a single frame still image with sound?

and the [anim] thumbnail tag gets overwritten by the [webm] one anyway.

Watsit

Privileged

dba_afish said:
what if it's a single frame still image with sound?

I'd think that'd run afoul of either the quality or relevance rules. This is a site for visual art, audio is only allowed to tag along when it's relevant to some video, so taking a single still image, running it through video compression (such that the same image will be encoded several times, and be worse per-frame than normal image formats) just to add an audio track, seems a bit overkill for what this site is for. Relatedly, when people have tried to upload static comic pages with voice acting, even with pan and zoom effects added to create a flow and focus to match the spoken dialog and sound effects, they've gotten deleted in favor of the original comic page.

dba afish

Member

watsit said:
I'd think that'd run afoul of either the quality or relevance rules. This is a site for visual art, audio is only allowed to tag along when it's relevant to some video, so taking a single still image, running it through video compression (such that the same image will be encoded several times, and be worse per-frame than normal image formats) just to add an audio track, seems a bit overkill for what this site is for. Relatedly, when people have tried to upload static comic pages with voice acting, even with pan and zoom effects added to create a flow and focus to match the spoken dialog and sound effects, they've gotten deleted in favor of the original comic page.

technically even irrelevant and deleted posts are supposed to be tagged properly. also, as far as I'm aware, the voiced comic pages were deleted because they were a low quality edit of an existing post, I'm not sure if we've had any situations where static webm with sound was official and the only version available, while this being something someone does dosn't seem totally likely to happen it's not impossible and I'm not sure how we'd handle it.

SNPtheCat

Member

watsit said:
The fact that there's no [anim] tag on thumbnails without the animated tag says to me the tag should always be there for anything that's not a still image, even slideshows. animated_png, a tag for APNGs, implies animated regardless of the apng being a slideshow or not, and multiframe gifs are automatically tagged animated (not even via an implication, it's forced at a lower level by the site code). I don't see any reason for webm to not also get tagged with animated.

Anything in a video format is tagged automatically tagged animated by the site. I guess that would make slideshow slightly odd in that you'll always have to remove a tag whenever you want to add it

Also see topic #44494 for unimplying animated from stuff

spe

Admin

watsit said:
I'd think that'd run afoul of either the quality or relevance rules. This is a site for visual art, audio is only allowed to tag along when it's relevant to some video, so taking a single still image, running it through video compression (such that the same image will be encoded several times, and be worse per-frame than normal image formats) just to add an audio track, seems a bit overkill for what this site is for. Relatedly, when people have tried to upload static comic pages with voice acting, even with pan and zoom effects added to create a flow and focus to match the spoken dialog and sound effects, they've gotten deleted in favor of the original comic page.

A static image with audio would hypothetically be allowed if it were the only existing or highest quality form of the artwork, though we haven’t yet had a post like that to my knowledge. So far there has always been a higher-quality non-video format out there somewhere, which is considered a superior replacement since audio tacked onto a still image is not a relevant factor in quality or content for our purposes, and it’s otherwise handled purely on the basis of visual quality. But on the other hand, posting a single frame from a still video like that would technically be a third-party edit and offers no quality advantage over hosting the original file, so that probably wouldn’t be allowed either.

SNPtheCat

Member

The bulk update request #10144 is pending approval.

remove implication short_playtime (129706) -> animated (165449)
remove implication long_playtime (24695) -> animated (165449)

Reason: Bump to reject the implication above
This unimplication is to allow animated to be removed from webm slideshow ~long_playtime ~short_playtime
Plus this affects nothing, all video formats are tagged animated on creation of post