Should art inspired/in the My Little Pony style be marked with the "My_Little_Pony" or not.
I noticed there's a lot of art especially if you search for "Pony -My_Little_Pony" where the characters and art style are obviously inspired by My Little Pony but obviously are not tagged as such.
I also noticed that on the upload page that My_Little_Pony is an example tag under "Contentious Content" to "blacklist content with ease"

Examples
https://e621.net/posts/3206479
https://e621.net/posts/3195656
https://e621.net/posts/3169247
https://e621.net/posts/3133377
https://e621.net/posts/3164882

I'm not sure what the correct answer is, but it seems to go either way. pony -mlp shows a lot of stuff that isn't tagged and mlp fan_character has a lot of art just like the examples you gave.

is it not tagged as such because someone made a fan character but the uploader didn't care enough to look into if it was related to mlp? because I mean like, there is also the fact that not tagging mlp on an mlp related post also isn't a rule. as long as 4 tags are on posts that's pretty much all you need. (still saying that should be raised.)

Edit: Looked into the sources, basically everything expect your second example should be tagged mlp with certainty. As the second one isn't blatant or mentioned in the source.

versperus said:
is it not tagged as such because someone made a fan character but the uploader didn't care enough to look into if it was related to mlp? because I mean like, there is also the fact that not tagging mlp on an mlp related post also isn't a rule. as long as 4 tags are on posts that's pretty much all you need. (still saying that should be raised.)

Edit: Looked into the sources, basically everything expect your second example should be tagged mlp with certainty. As the second one isn't blatant or mentioned in the source.

For sure for some like that one and this(https://e621.net/posts/2782461) there is a certain amount of ambiguousness and subjectiveness as to what is in the My Little Pony style

versperus said:
Edit: Looked into the sources, basically everything expect your second example should be tagged mlp with certainty. As the second one isn't blatant or mentioned in the source.

None of them are blatant MLP, and whether or not the source mentions it has no bearing on whether there's any visible MLP material. Maybe the fifth one is somewhat vaguely in the MLP:FIM style, but as far as I know, we don't tag based on art style. There's way too much grey area, and a lot of room for overlap. Especially when it comes to series that have had or gone through multiple styles.

thick_outlines and my_little_pony are not one and the same.
_{Why was Thick Outlines nuked? It's not even invalidated, people just removed it.}

post #1339342
Nothing about this looks MLP related/inspired.
post #3268155
Nothing about this carries the "MLP style".
We tag copyright based on if the characters are made for it or not. Trixie is a character from the show.
post #3267835 post #3267739
...I dislike the second one in this case, but the first one was stated by the artist to be MLP. The second one was not, but was posted to Derpibooru.
I want to say that if the artist doesn't claim it's MLP related, it shouldn't get the tag (unless it has a cutie mark which is inherently MLP), but Derpibooru complicates that.

• Edit: Nope! It wasn't the artist themselves who posted that Kirin to Derpibooru, so I feel confident in saying the tag should go.

post #3265222
This one however does not show up on Derpi and has no mention of being MLP related.
...Though now I look at the tag history and it was uploaded by the artist with that --or a user with the artist's username. However:

Shanher said:
Hi! I am an artist come from China. You can call me Shanher or dragonmo'pet
My English is poor, mainly rely on translation software, so if there are any grammatical errors, please correct^^！

so it's possible that they themselves misunderstood things and thought "Colorful unicorn=My Little Pony"

watsit said:
we don't tag based on art style.

but like Faucet said earlier

faucet said:
pony -mlp shows a lot of stuff that isn't tagged and mlp fan_character has a lot of art just like the examples you gave.

and like I said in the OP the uploader somewhat implies that mlp is meant to be used as a blacklist along with shit like scat cub and diaper

I'd say no. There's a lot of art inspired by anime/manga and Sonic the Hedgehog, for example, but we don't tag them as either art style. Doing so would simply muddy the waters on what material is actually related to My Little Pony, anime/manga, Sonic the Hedgehog and what is simply the artist just drawing in that style but isn't actually drawing something from one of those franchises. If we can't connect the subject of the picture to the franchise, we don't tag the franchise. Art style doesn't count since My Little Pony pictures can be drawn in, say, the Sonic the Hedgehog style and vice versa. Do you know how confusing that would be if we tagged the art style, too?

To me even if a character isn't drawn exactly the same as the show

furrin_gok said:
post #1339342 post #3268155 post #3267835 post #3267739 post #3265222

All of these except the first one are in the MLP style despite not being exactly like the show. The general face shape is what gives it that MLP style, the way the nose meets the rest of the face, the ears, big eyes, a flatter face to make it easier to animate

Just for reference here are some horses/ponies that are not in the MLP style
post #1873901 post #3264399 post #3231722 post #3049782 post #2622523 post #2610831 post #2594172 post #2352304

clawstripe said:
There's a lot of art inspired by anime/manga and Sonic the Hedgehog, for example, but we don't tag them as either art style. Doing so would simply muddy the waters on what material is actually related to My Little Pony, anime/manga, Sonic the Hedgehog and what is simply the artist just drawing in that style but isn't actually drawing something from one of those franchises.

Too be fair there's a lot of art drawn in the Sonic style under sonic_the_hedgehog_(series) fan_character and a lot of basically identical style art under something like echidna -sonic_the_hedgehog_(series)

And against if tags like mlp and sonic_the_hedgehog_(series) are meant to be used to blacklist a style of character design and art like the upload page implies then IMO they should

watsit said:
None of them are blatant MLP, and whether or not the source mentions it has no bearing on whether there's any visible MLP material. Maybe the fifth one is somewhat vaguely in the MLP:FIM style, but as far as I know, we don't tag based on art style. There's way too much grey area, and a lot of room for overlap. Especially when it comes to series that have had or gone through multiple styles.

2 of them literally are tagged mlp on source, one of them is commissioned by a derpibooru, which, come on. and one the character owner only does mlp stuff so yes blatant. You're forgetting that whether something is a fan character of something isn't a TWYS needed criteria.

More than one person said:
(...) we don't tag art style (...)

While we do not in fact tag every possible art style, kemono and toony are significant exceptions. I would strongly oppose any attempt to get rid of either purely for the sake of "consistency".

The MLP and Sonic situation is a bit more complex. I agree that the use of a style associated with a copyright is not enough to make a post worthy of the copyright tag. However, I assume most people who blacklist MLP and/or Sonic are trying to avoid the style, not the characters specifically. Unless an appropriate blacklist tag can be applied to the countless on model OCs, I would prefer both copyrights to be tagged as broadly as possible within reason.

versperus said:
2 of them literally are tagged mlp on source, one of them is commissioned by a derpibooru, which, come on. and one the character owner only does mlp stuff so yes blatant.

What's tagged at the source has nothing to do with tags here. And something being commissioned by someone "known for" certain things doesn't automatically make everything from them that thing. Hardly blatant if people can look at the same picture and come to different conclusions.

versperus said:
You're forgetting that whether something is a fan character of something isn't a TWYS needed criteria.

The fan_character tag is a whole mess in itself, and I find is way over-tagged to the point of uselessness. See also topic #29369 and topic #29510.

watsit said:
What's tagged at the source has nothing to do with tags here. And something being commissioned by someone "known for" certain things doesn't automatically make everything from them that thing. Hardly blatant if people can look at the same picture and come to different conclusions.

The fan_character tag is a whole mess in itself, and I find is way over-tagged to the point of uselessness. See also topic #29369 and topic #29510.

Sure it can be over tagged but characters are the only thing that I'm aware of which has always not been subject to TWYS, so idk why you're arguing with me about it. Though I do agree that they shouldn't be implicated to the material they're a fan character of. in reference to that second forum link.

versperus said:
Though I do agree that they shouldn't be implicated to the material they're a fan character of. in reference to that second forum link.

Then we agree on that point, a fan character alone shouldn't imply the material/copyright they're a fan character of, only when something of the canon material is present should the copyright be tagged. So what's tagged at source, or what the commissioner is "known for", are irrelevant. And art style doesn't fall into "canon material" either. So, back to the five examples in the O.P., none of those are "blatant MLP", and there's nothing an uploader could look into to tag mlp since there's no canon MLP material present.

More to the point, post #3164882 is a perfect example of why art style shouldn't imply the source material. Them's Fightin' Herds was originally a MLP fan fighting game that got a Cease and Desist by Hasbro. As a result, the creator of MLP:FIM actually created a bunch of new characters for the game, resulting in characters with a very similar style but without the MLP copyright, and they changed the name, which got them out from under Hasbro's thumb and allowed the project to continue as a non-MLP game despite looking very similar. Yet tagging MLP on it because of the style is applying a Hasbro copyright on what's explicitly not MLP/Hasbro-owned.

watsit said:
Then we agree on that point, a fan character alone shouldn't imply the material/copyright they're a fan character of, only when something of the canon material is present should the copyright be tagged. So what's tagged at source, or what the commissioner is "known for", are irrelevant. And art style doesn't fall into "canon material" either. So, back to the five examples in the O.P., none of those are "blatant MLP", and there's nothing an uploader could look into to tag mlp since there's no canon MLP material present.

More to the point, post #3164882 is a perfect example of why art style shouldn't imply the source material. Them's Fightin' Herds was originally a MLP fan fighting game that got a Cease and Desist by Hasbro. As a result, the creator of MLP:FIM actually created a bunch of new characters for the game, resulting in characters with a very similar style but without the MLP copyright, and they changed the name, which got them out from under Hasbro's thumb and allowed the project to continue as a non-MLP game despite looking very similar. Yet tagging MLP on it because of the style is applying a Hasbro copyright on what's explicitly not MLP/Hasbro-owned.

My saying with certainty is due to the source material saying "yes this is mlp" include the post you linked.
https://derpibooru.org/tags/oleander+%28tfh%29
Oh are you saying this *is* the fighting game? It seems like a case of Katia managan which is technically related but not. As that takes place in the realm of tamrial but isn't related to any of the franchises. Eh, this is a super grey area.

versperus said:
My saying with certainty is due to the source material saying "yes this is mlp" include the post you linked.
https://derpibooru.org/tags/oleander+%28tfh%29
Oh are you saying this *is* the fighting game? It seems like a case of Katia managan which is technically related but not. As that takes place in the realm of tamrial but isn't related to any of the franchises. Eh, this is a super grey area.

The difference is that Katia Managan's story officially takes place in the Elder Scrolls universe.

Them's Fighting Herds (officially) has nothing to do with MLP.
It does not take place in its universe, there are no shared characters, etc.

It started as an MLP fan game, but it's not one anymore.

watsit said:
Then we agree on that point, a fan character alone shouldn't imply the material/copyright they're a fan character of, only when something of the canon material is present should the copyright be tagged. So what's tagged at source, or what the commissioner is "known for", are irrelevant. And art style doesn't fall into "canon material" either. So, back to the five examples in the O.P., none of those are "blatant MLP", and there's nothing an uploader could look into to tag mlp since there's no canon MLP material present.

More to the point, post #3164882 is a perfect example of why art style shouldn't imply the source material. Them's Fightin' Herds was originally a MLP fan fighting game that got a Cease and Desist by Hasbro. As a result, the creator of MLP:FIM actually created a bunch of new characters for the game, resulting in characters with a very similar style but without the MLP copyright, and they changed the name, which got them out from under Hasbro's thumb and allowed the project to continue as a non-MLP game despite looking very similar. Yet tagging MLP on it because of the style is applying a Hasbro copyright on what's explicitly not MLP/Hasbro-owned.

Like what Gattonero2001 said the MLP and sonic_the_hedgehog_(series) tags are meant to be used more broadly than other Copyright tags because they're being used to blacklist certain styles of art and characters, and honestly looking at the Them's_Fightin'_Herds tag that should all be marked as MLP because people who want to blacklist MLP design wise would also want to black list that
I honestly think it's also the easiest and less confusing to just use that tags in that way instead of making a "MLP_Design" tag

bitwolfy said:
The difference is that Katia Managan's story officially takes place in the Elder Scrolls universe.

Them's Fighting Herds (officially) has nothing to do with MLP.
It does not take place in its universe, there are no shared characters, etc.

It started as an MLP fan game, but it's not one anymore.

counter argument to the same argument, should fakemon be tagged pokemon as well?
actually if you want to go off a stylistic thing then arguably fake_mlp or a related type of tag could be appropriate for catching stylized but not related content like this.

versperus said:
It seems like a case of Katia managan which is technically related but not. As that takes place in the realm of tamrial but isn't related to any of the franchises. Eh, this is a super grey area.

Katia Managan is a Khajiit, a species from The Elder Scrolls, and she lives and adventures in Cyrodiil, a canon place from The Elder Scrolls, and meets many canon characters like Quill-Weave and ASoTIL. One could argue whether Katia Managan by herself is anything more than a feline anthro, since that's basically what Khajiit are in the games, but once any of those Elder Scrolls-related material is there, it becomes Elder Scrolls related. That goes along with what a said; a fan character alone shouldn't be tagged with the franchise they're a fan character of, it's only when that canon material comes in that the franchise gets tagged.

satanicwolfluna said:
Like what Gattonero2001 said the MLP and sonic_the_hedgehog_(series) tags are meant to be used more broadly than other Copyright tags because they're being used to blacklist certain styles of art and characters, and honestly looking at the Them's_Fightin'_Herds tag that should all be marked as MLP because people who want to blacklist MLP design wise would also want to black list that

Except that's misattribution of copyright and trademark. TFH is specifically and explicitly not MLP, it has no Hasbro-owned IP. Tagging MLP on it is wrong, and can actually create problems for the TFH's devs if people keep mistaking it for being MLP-related. It's just as wrong as tagging Dragon Quest character art as Dragonball, because they both had the same character designer creating similar looking character designs, does not make the two related for tagging.

satanicwolfluna said:
I honestly think it's also the easiest and less confusing to just use that tags in that way instead of making a "MLP_Design" tag

Many of the examples being given aren't even "MLP design". They're just random ponies or pegasus that someone says is for their MLP fanon. They don't even have visible cutie marks. The only one that's vague MLP-related by looks is post #3164882, but that's actually from a different media franchise altogether and only looks vaguely MLP-ish because it had the same character designer as Friendship Is Magic.

versperus said:
counter argument to the same argument, should fakemon be tagged pokemon as well?

Only if it incorporates pokemon content. Like fake evolutions having a design based on official species, or being a hybrid species of a pokemon and non-pokemon. But a fakemon in the style of Ken Sugimori's work that otherwise has no visible ties to the pokemon franchise, shouldn't be tagged pokemon.

watsit said:
Except that's misattribution of copyright and trademark. TFH is specifically and explicitly not MLP, it has no Hasbro-owned IP. Tagging MLP on it is wrong, and can actually create problems for the TFH's devs if people keep mistaking it for being MLP-related. It's just as wrong as tagging Dragon Quest character art as Dragonball, because they both had the same character designer creating similar looking character designs, does not make the two related for tagging.

Many of the examples being given aren't even "MLP design". They're just random ponies or pegasus that someone says is for their MLP fanon. They don't even have visible cutie marks. The only one that's vague MLP-related by looks is post #3164882, but that's actually from a different media franchise altogether and only looks vaguely MLP-ish because it had the same character designer as Friendship Is Magic.

I really doubt there are a lot of people on this site using the "Copyright" tags for legal reasons and acting like it's going to cause some kind of legal issue or that "misattribution of copyright and trademark" is a big deal seems a bit silly. Most are using it to find art about a franchise or in the case of Sonic and MLP art of characters in that style or to blacklist and not see art and characters in that style. And I don't know how much Brony and MLP experience you have but all the posts I liked in the OP are based on MLP design and I feel like people who don't want to look at MLP Ponies would want an easy way to blacklist them

post #1026380 post #442433 post #442460 post #177216 (show accurate)
post #3267739 post #3164882 post #3268155 post #3265222 post #3169247
All of these share similar facial design choices like the jaw/head shape, large eyes, similar ears

satanicwolfluna said:
I really doubt there are a lot of people on this site using the "Copyright" tags for legal reasons and acting like it's going to cause some kind of legal issue or that "misattribution of copyright and trademark" is a big deal seems a bit silly.

Not that silly. The whole point of trademarks is to identify the source of goods so the consumer public knows who/where products come from, so if people keep saying Them's Fightin' Herds stuff is MLP from Hasbro when it's not, that's creating confusion and gives Hasbro grounds to do something to protect their IP.

satanicwolfluna said:
Most are using it to find art about a franchise or in the case of Sonic and MLP art of characters in that style or to blacklist and not see art and characters in that style.

That's incorrect usage since that's not what the tags are for. The tags are for indicating when something is from the franchise, not when something looks kinda vaguely similar if you squint a bit. Especially when the design is shared by other non-MLP media. And let's not forget, Friendship Is Magic is hardly the only MLP content in existence. MLP has been around for decades, and the current designs are no more or less MLP than the cartoons and toys from the 80s and 90s.

satanicwolfluna said:
And I don't know how much Brony and MLP experience you have but all the posts I liked in the OP are based on MLP design and I feel like people who don't want to look at MLP Ponies would want an easy way to blacklist them

That goes the other way too. What about people that don't mind the style, but don't want to see stuff from the actual show/franchise? Or people that want to see stuff from the actual show/franchise, but not all the fan stuff that merely looks similar?

"MLP design" is not MLP any more than fakemon are pokemon (i.e. they're not). Fakemon are not tagged as pokemon even though they're made in a similar style, unless there are some identifiable elements from the pokemon franchise, so "MLP designs" are not tagged as MLP even though they're made in a similar style, unless there are some identifiable elements from the MLP franchise. Especially when you're including material that is explicitly and legally not MLP into the MLP/Hasbro tags just because it has similar character designs, that's a sign it's taken too far.

watsit said:
Not that silly. The whole point of trademarks is to identify the source of goods so the consumer public knows who/where products come from, so if people keep saying Them's Fightin' Herds stuff is MLP from Hasbro when it's not, that's creating confusion and gives Hasbro grounds to do something to protect their IP.

That's incorrect usage since that's not what the tags are for. The tags are for indicating when something is from the franchise, not when something looks kinda vaguely similar if you squint a bit. Especially when the design is shared by other non-MLP media. And let's not forget, Friendship Is Magic is hardly the only MLP content in existence. MLP has been around for decades, and the current designs are no more or less MLP than the cartoons and toys from the 80s and 90s.

That goes the other way too. What about people that don't mind the style, but don't want to see stuff from the actual show/franchise? Or people that want to see stuff from the actual show/franchise, but not all the fan stuff that merely looks similar?

"MLP design" is not MLP any more than fakemon are pokemon (i.e. they're not). Fakemon are not tagged as pokemon even though they're made in a similar style, unless there are some identifiable elements from the pokemon franchise, so "MLP designs" are not tagged as MLP even though they're made in a similar style, unless there are some identifiable elements from the MLP franchise. Especially when you're including material that is explicitly and legally not MLP into the MLP/Hasbro tags just because it has similar character designs, that's a sign it's taken too far.

I'm pretty sure legally Nintendo/Sega/Hasbro could come on here and copyright every piece of art that even slightly resembles their character design but they choose not to because it would piss people off and would be a potential Streisand effect. If something like Them's Fightin' Herds is gonna have legal issues it's gonna be because they have a pony in the game that looks basically the same as a G4 pony and the fact that the dev studio is called "Mane6"(the name of the group of main ponies on FiM) and that could confuse consumers as it does on this site into thinking it's a Hasbro thing

And again most people use the Copyright tags to find posts that are part of a franchise or to find/blacklist art and characters in the Style of MLP and Sonic, and for simplicities sake having one take for MLP and Sonic for blacklist or search even related art makes a lot of sense, and character that are drawn in that style but aren't actually from the series can use fan_character tag and if people want to get rid of the fan characters and only see show character then use -fan_character

Also most Fakemon (like 3/4th) are tagged with pokemon anyways

satanicwolfluna said:
I'm pretty sure legally Nintendo/Sega/Hasbro could come on here and copyright every piece of art that even slightly resembles their character design but they choose not to because it would piss people off and would be a potential Streisand effect.

They could, but they do give permission for people to make fanart, and it's not causing them problems. Start causing problems, though, and they'll be more ready to act.

satanicwolfluna said:
If something like Them's Fightin' Herds is gonna have legal issues it's gonna be because they have a pony in the game that looks basically the same as a G4 pony and the fact that the dev studio is called "Mane6"(the name of the group of main ponies on FiM) and that could confuse consumers as it does on this site into thinking it's a Hasbro thing

Hasbro doesn't have an exclusive right to pony characters, and there's enough ambiguity with a name/title like Mane6 (it's a clever animal pun for a group name) that something more would likely be needed for a successful case. However, showing that people are confusing Them's Fightin' Herds for an MLP/Hasbro property when it's not would be very good ammo for them.

satanicwolfluna said:
And again most people use the Copyright tags to find posts that are part of a franchise

Exactly. If people want to find or blacklist things from a particular franchise, those tags let them do that.

satanicwolfluna said:
or to find/blacklist art and characters in the Style of MLP and Sonic

That's the wrong way to use it, it makes the tag too broad and will cause people to find or blacklist things that are not part of the franchise. The examples above adequately show how style is vague and inexact, since again, of the 5 original examples, the only one that vaguely looks most like MLP is the one that is 100% absolutely not MLP. Character design does not make something part of the franchise, different franchises can share a similar art style and a single franchise can have many different art styles.

satanicwolfluna said:
Also most Fakemon (like 3/4th) are tagged with pokemon anyways

Which means nothing, as it doesn't say how many legitimately have something pokemon-related, or how many are mistags that should be cleaned up. And in either case, one tag being misused doesn't mean other tags can be misused.

watsit said:
Hasbro doesn't have an exclusive right to pony characters, and there's enough ambiguity with a name/title like Mane6 (it's a clever animal pun for a group name) that something more would likely be needed for a successful case. However, showing that people are confusing Them's Fightin' Herds for an MLP/Hasbro property when it's not would be very good ammo for them.

The examples above adequately show how style is vague and inexact, since again, of the 5 original examples

I never said Hasbro has exclusive right to pony characters but they do own the MLP character design and I feel like it is a pretty distinctive design too like a Sonic character's design and really don't think it's as vague or inexact as you imply that it is
Examples of horses/ponies that don't use the MLP design:
post #1873901 post #3264399 post #3231722 post #3049782 post #2622523 post #2610831 post #2594172 post #2352304

watsit said:
That's the wrong way to use it, it makes the tag too broad and will cause people to find or blacklist things that are not part of the franchise.

I really don't think it makes the tag too broad or that's a really big issue, keep in mind there's other sub tags with MLP like friendship_is_magic my_little_pony:_the_movie_(2017) my_little_pony:_a_new_generation I feel like people who are using the MLP tag are trying to do a broad search of art and characters that look like the show same thing with sonic_the{hedgehod_(series)

watsit said:
so if people keep saying Them's Fightin' Herds stuff is MLP from Hasbro when it's not, that's creating confusion and gives Hasbro grounds to do something to protect their IP.

I really also don't think a porn site referring to Them's Fightin' Herds as part of an MLP tag is gonna really matter in the grand scheme when the rest of the internet is calling it "the my little pony fighting game"
https://www.pcgamer.com/my-little-pony-inspired-fighter-thems-fightin-herds-launches-on-april-2/
https://gametyrant.com/news/check-out-this-my-little-pony-inspired-fighting-game
https://kotaku.com/my-little-pony-inspired-2d-fighting-game-will-leave-ear-1842296852
https://www.usgamer.net/articles/thems-fightin-herds-evo-online-feature
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ce3_jdSumY

satanicwolfluna said:
I never said Hasbro has exclusive right to pony characters but they do own the MLP character design

No, they own the MLP characters, not general designs. Someone creating their own pony character with a design like MLP does not make it MLP owned by Hasbro.

satanicwolfluna said:
and I feel like it is a pretty distinctive design too like a Sonic character's design and really don't think it's as vague or inexact as you imply that it is

Considering there's already disagreements with the first examples presented, I think it is fairly vague and inexact.

satanicwolfluna said:
Examples of horses/ponies that don't use the MLP design:
... post #3231722 ... post #2610831 ...

And I don't see how that's much different from
post #3169247 and post #3133377
except in the first case it's a bit more cartoony.

satanicwolfluna said:
I really also don't think a porn site referring to Them's Fightin' Herds as part of an MLP tag is gonna really matter in the grand scheme when the rest of the internet is calling it "the my little pony fighting game"

All of them make a clear distinction. "My Little Pony inspired", "Former My Little Pony Fighting Game", "It's a My Little Pony fighting game, but it's not a My Little Pony fighting game..." and explains that it has ponies but it's not "Ponies" so nobody gets sued. And even if someone was wrong in calling it an MLP fighting game, one person doing it wrong doesn't make it okay for others to make the same mistake. It's a cumulative case here, not a one-and-done deal; a single person mistakenly associating it as MLP is just a single person making a mistake, but the more people get confused and say it's the same, the bigger problems that can arise.

watsit said:
And I don't see how that's much different from
post #3169247 and post #3133377
except in the first case it's a bit more cartoony.

I don't deny there's isn't some gray area but for those two specifically compare to:
post #2610831 post #3231722
It's not just the more cartoony look MLP character have short faces compared those two you can see it especially in the second one you linked where she's looking at the camera because that's just how MLP designs look when the look head one
Bojack Horseman
https://www.cheatsheet.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/bojack-horseman-season-5-1024x576.png
Fluttershy(the yellow one) looking at the camera
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/sVEZeekK8Dtyq2VTXja6_xa6BN8=/1400x1050/filters:format(jpeg)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/23340132/MyLittlePony.jpg

And the two I linked both have much have much stronger jaw lines and long noses which even Male MLP characters and the Princesses don't have
A male MLP character
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/2/29/Shining_Armor_ID_S5E19.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/400?cb=20151026075733

And yeah some might get blacklisted that aren't but I don't think many would or do

Also in regards to clogging up the tags Fan_character only takes on 18% of the MLP tag and 6% of Friendship_is_magic and there's only like 2000 posts that cume up using the pony -my_little_pony tag combination and maybe 25% of those I think should be cleared up into MLP using it's character designs and less than 4% of posts using horse -MLP

I do think we should be tagging art styles more regularly. It’s at least as important as tagging franchises for searching and blacklisting purposes, and probably much more important than tagging digital media (artwork)/traditional media (artwork) and etc.

Also, as gattonero2001 pointed out already, we already have some tags for art styles, so it wouldn’t be without precedent. Personally, I’d like to be able to blacklist the Sonic and MLP:FIM art styles, particularly because there’s so much of it, and it’s often seen with original characters that are inconsistently given the franchise tag. Plus, I don’t really care if a character originates from those series, as long as they’re drawn in a different style. I even like some of the MLP dragons when they’re drawn more anthro and in a more realistic style. For Sonic, I just really dislike how the eyes are always drawn like they’re merged into a single giant eyeball with two pupils. That and the skinny limbs/oversized hands/feet/heads makes me wish it were easier to blacklist any post drawn in that style, regardless of what franchise the characters originate from.

scaliespe said:
Also, as gattonero2001 pointed out already, we already have some tags for art styles, so it wouldn’t be without precedent. Personally, I’d like to be able to blacklist the Sonic and MLP:FIM art styles, particularly because there’s so much of it, and it’s often seen with original characters that are inconsistently given the franchise tag.

But as also pointed out, it's pretty vague.
post #3133377 post #3169247
Are these "MLP style"? A more hard-line approach (where you essentially take the route of on_model) would say no, while a looser interpretation (when it's "inspired by") would say yes. And if these are going to be widely-used blacklist or search terms, different people are going to want different criteria. One person may to blacklist anything remotely inspired by MLP, while another may want to search for art that's accurate to MLP 's design (even if nothing from the show is visible).

Then there's the case of what the style actually is.
post #3164882
Is in the style of Them's Fightin' Herds. It is near identical to MLP:FIM, because Lauren Faust did the character designs for both. Similarly, Dragon Quest and Dragon Ball share similar art styles because the same guy, Akira Toriyama, did art and character designs for both. What would you name it when the same style starts getting used in different otherwise unrelated franchises? Or what about when a series goes through a style shift? MLP has changed since the 80s, and will no doubt change again in the future, and Pokemon went through a style change in the Alolan/Gen7 arc, but occasionally gets specials that harken back to the old art style.

watsit said:
But as also pointed out, it's pretty vague.
post #3133377 post #3169247
different people are going to want different criteria. One person may to blacklist anything remotely inspired by MLP, while another may want to search for art that's accurate to MLP 's design (even if nothing from the show is visible).

post #3164882

most people who are going to want to blacklist MLP are going to want anything remotely inspired blacklisted too same with Sonic, both of those plus the TFH one if people have MLP blacklisted they're gonna want those ones gone too and wouldn't it be easier too for people on want on_model art for a specific series without character from the show to type for example mlp on_model then to try to dig around the site for it

watsit said:
Is in the style of Them's Fightin' Herds. It is near identical to MLP:FIM, because Lauren Faust did the character designs for both. Similarly, Dragon Quest and Dragon Ball share similar art styles because the same guy, Akira Toriyama, did art and character designs for both. What would you name it when the same style starts getting used in different otherwise unrelated franchises?

Sonic and MLP fan art and inspired art is an entirely different situation, sure Dragon Quest and Ball share similar art styles but there's not that many people making fan character or art based off of it without the actual show characters in it, There's more Sonic Fan Character art on here than Dragon Ball has tags and Dragon Quest and Ball have 1/10th the art MLP Fan Characters have. Like Gattonero2001 said MLP and Sonic are special cases because of how much fan characters and inspired styles there are

and for Pokemon there really aren't that many who make fan pokemon from what I've seen. Most people if they have a Pokemon sona they use an actual pokemon.

watsit said:
MLP has changed since the 80s, and will no doubt change again in the future, and Pokemon went through a style change in the Alolan/Gen7 arc, but occasionally gets specials that harken back to the old art style.

MLP just recently changed it's art style and it looks like the first one in your post and I do think that on the rare chance someone does a character using a G1-3.5 design that it should also be tagged

satanicwolfluna said:
most people who are going to want to blacklist MLP are going to want anything remotely inspired blacklisted too same with Sonic

I think that's too much of an assumption. But even if so, taking a looser interpretation makes it that much more vague and subjective, so the more loose of an interpretation used, the less suitable it'll be for tagging purposes. There's a reason art styles like anime have been invalidated.

satanicwolfluna said:
both of those plus the TFH one if people have MLP blacklisted they're gonna want those ones gone too

You're making too much of an assumption on what other people want. You may want it extremely loose like that, but that doesn't mean everyone does.

satanicwolfluna said:
and wouldn't it be easier too for people on want on_model art for a specific series without character from the show to type for example mlp on_model then to try to dig around the site for it

on_model only applies to stuff from the franchise. Even if there was some tag for art and characters styled after MLP, on_model wouldn't apply if there's no canon characters from the show that are the spitting image of the show.

satanicwolfluna said:
Sonic and MLP fan art and inspired art is an entirely different situation, sure Dragon Quest and Ball share similar art styles but there's not that many people making fan character or art based off of it without the actual show characters in it, There's more Sonic Fan Character art on here than Dragon Ball has tags and Dragon Quest and Ball have 1/10th the art MLP Fan Characters have. Like Gattonero2001 said MLP and Sonic are special cases because of how much fan characters and inspired styles there are

I think that's an irrelevant distinction. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

satanicwolfluna said:
and for Pokemon there really aren't that many who make fan pokemon from what I've seen. Most people if they have a Pokemon sona they use an actual pokemon.

That's what the entire fakémon tag is about, people making their own "fan pokemon". There are several fan games with new "fan pokemon" (in spite of Nintendo's continued attempts to take them down).

satanicwolfluna said:
MLP just recently changed it's art style and it looks like the first one in your post and I do think that on the rare chance someone does a character using a G1-3.5 design that it should also be tagged

That's way too much, IMO. A franchise doesn't get to lay claim to whole swaths of art because the various styles it has gone through will inevitably look like a more general style artists use, particularly if we're going with the very loose interpretation of style. And this would just be making it more useless since people who like the older G1 or 2 style but dislike the G4 style, have no tag to use to blacklist, while people who want to search for stuff in just the G4 style will have no tag to search. Such a tag would become useless if applied properly because it would encompass far more than what any one person would want.

Whether we should tag a fim_style or not is secondary and unrelated to the opening topic. The original question was whether we should tag the copyright tag my_little_pony (and because MLP has several different styles, friendship_is_magic) on pictures whose only correlation to MLP: FiM is that they share the the same art style. "Them's Fightin' Herds" alone shows we shouldn't as it is totally possible to use the FiM style on an unrelated property.

Just as art styles can't be copyrighted in real life, e621's copyright tags should not be used for art styles. If we are to tag the fim_style, or a sonic_style for that matter, it should be a separate, non-copyright tag (likely a general one instead) so we don't unnecessarily confuse matters on posts.

watsit said:
I think that's too much of an assumption. But even if so, taking a looser interpretation makes it that much more vague and subjective, so the more loose of an interpretation used, the less suitable it'll be for tagging purposes. There's a reason art styles like anime have been invalidated.

You're making too much of an assumption on what other people want. You may want it extremely loose like that, but that doesn't mean everyone does.

You can say it'll be less suitable for tagging but the MLP tag is massive, it has 262k tags and I posted the math
The MLP tag has 262 285
MLP Fan_Character has about 45.5k (17%)
MLP Fan_Character -FiM has about 32.9k (12.5%)
and the Sonic_the_Hedgehog_(Series) tag with 66 296 tags
Sonic_the_Hedgehog_(Series) fan_character has about 4.3K(6.5%)

and like I said before there's other tags people can use to better find stuff like art only using show character
FiM my_little_pony:_a_new_generation my_little_pony_'n_friends my_little_pony_(2003) my_little_pony_tales my_little_pony_(2009)

Also, I can't stress these numbers enough when it comes to the tags being "less suitable it'll be for tagging purposes" these are the 8th: Sonic The Hedgehog 3rd: MLP, and to an extent 2nd Pokemon(311 393) clogging the tags just seems like such a pointless concern when there are so many posts with MLP and Pokemon you can't even use the numbers at the bottom of the page to get to the first posts

And I can understand anime art style being a bit of a pointless tag because anime is a very vague term when it comes to character design but MLP and Sonic are not

watsit said:
I think that's an irrelevant distinction. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

And this would just be making it more useless since people who like the older G1 or 2 style but dislike the G4 style, have no tag to use to blacklist, while people who want to search for stuff in just the G4 style will have no tag to search. Such a tag would become useless if applied properly because it would encompass far more than what any one person would want.

I really don't think it's an irrelevant distinction to acknowledge the fact that there is little to no fan characters and even art for that matter being made in these specific styles and being put in the Dragon_Ball and Dragon_Quest tags and it's like bring up "but what about the previous pony generation" when there is like less than 200 pieces even using it's style and they're from like 10+ years ago and in your system there is no way to find generation specific art anyways

clawstripe said:
Just as art styles can't be copyrighted in real life, e621's copyright tags should not be used for art styles. If we are to tag the fim_style, or a sonic_style for that matter, it should be a separate, non-copyright tag (likely a general one instead) so we don't unnecessarily confuse matters on posts.

Meta might be more appropriate. Although using copyright tags wouldn't be the most far-out thing (copyright tags do get used to handle themes and such), it definitely shouldn't be linked to a real copyright/IP in any case since that can have legal ramifications (and also because when some style is shared between completely separate franchises, it wouldn't be fair to name it after one rather than the other, putting the other in the shadow of the first).

satanicwolfluna said:
You can say it'll be less suitable for tagging but the MLP tag is massive

And as this thread shows, is heavily overtagged as a result of being used on anything in a vague "MLP style" that has no actual content from the MLP franchise. Which is an issue causing trouble for the tag.

satanicwolfluna said:
and like I said before there's other tags people can use to better find stuff like art only using show character

But we're talking about stuff in the style of the show, not the show itself. If I want to find art in the style of MLP G1, but keep art in the style of MLP G3/4/etc blacklisted, how could I?

satanicwolfluna said:
And I can understand anime art style being a bit of a pointless tag because anime is a very vague term when it comes to character design but MLP and Sonic are not

That's not correct, as this thread shows. Different people have different criteria when it comes to what exactly "MLP style" or "Sonic style" is, we don't agree on where the line is (you for instance seem to have a very vague/loose interpretation of what should count, while I would favor a more restricted interpretation), and we don't agree whether style shifts count, or how to deal with shared styles. The MLP and Sonic tags are being handled extremely vague right now and being over-tagged.

satanicwolfluna said:
I really don't think it's an irrelevant distinction to acknowledge the fact that there is little to no fan characters

About 1.4K posts in Dragon Quest and 4.1K posts in Dragon Ball currently, that's not "little". Sure, it's not the wild numbers MLP and Sonic have (which again should be pointed out are currently inflated due to people using them to tag some vague idea of art style rather than actual franchise content), but it's still a fair number for a distinctive style. If it's worth tagging "MLP style" and "Sonic style" because people like it (and people want to avoid it), there's no reason not to tag "DQ style" or "DB style" because there are people who like it (and people want to avoid it).

satanicwolfluna said:
and even art for that matter being made in these specific styles and being put in the Dragon_Ball and Dragon_Quest tags and it's like bring up "but what about the previous pony generation" when there is like less than 200 pieces even using it's style and they're from like 10+ years ago and in your system there is no way to find generation specific art anyways

I have no idea what you're trying to say. Please use proper punctuation, it would really help us understand you.

watsit said:
But as also pointed out, it's pretty vague.
post #3133377 post #3169247
Are these "MLP style"? A more hard-line approach (where you essentially take the route of on_model) would say no, while a looser interpretation (when it's "inspired by") would say yes. And if these are going to be widely-used blacklist or search terms, different people are going to want different criteria. One person may to blacklist anything remotely inspired by MLP, while another may want to search for art that's accurate to MLP 's design (even if nothing from the show is visible).

Then there's the case of what the style actually is.
post #3164882
Is in the style of Them's Fightin' Herds. It is near identical to MLP:FIM, because Lauren Faust did the character designs for both. Similarly, Dragon Quest and Dragon Ball share similar art styles because the same guy, Akira Toriyama, did art and character designs for both. What would you name it when the same style starts getting used in different otherwise unrelated franchises? Or what about when a series goes through a style shift? MLP has changed since the 80s, and will no doubt change again in the future, and Pokemon went through a style change in the Alolan/Gen7 arc, but occasionally gets specials that harken back to the old art style.

watsit said:
But as also pointed out, it's pretty vague.
post #3133377 post #3169247
Are these "MLP style"? A more hard-line approach (where you essentially take the route of on_model) would say no, while a looser interpretation (when it's "inspired by") would say yes. And if these are going to be widely-used blacklist or search terms, different people are going to want different criteria. One person may to blacklist anything remotely inspired by MLP, while another may want to search for art that's accurate to MLP 's design (even if nothing from the show is visible).

Then there's the case of what the style actually is.
post #3164882
Is in the style of Them's Fightin' Herds. It is near identical to MLP:FIM, because Lauren Faust did the character designs for both. Similarly, Dragon Quest and Dragon Ball share similar art styles because the same guy, Akira Toriyama, did art and character designs for both. What would you name it when the same style starts getting used in different otherwise unrelated franchises? Or what about when a series goes through a style shift? MLP has changed since the 80s, and will no doubt change again in the future, and Pokemon went through a style change in the Alolan/Gen7 arc, but occasionally gets specials that harken back to the old art style.

I would expect these art style tags to be pretty much on-model, personally. It’s easier to define by TWYS that way. “MLP-inspired” could get a bit subjective. And regardless, it’s far better than not having a tag for it at all, even if it’s a little fuzzy. We already have plenty of tags with somewhat fuzzy definitions that are still important for searching and blacklisting.

We could even skip the franchise name altogether and simply attribute the style to the artist. That way, both MLP and TFH get the same tag. Call it lauren_faust_style or something. This also avoids the problem of canon MLP content with a different style being included, like pre-Faust MLP. I’ve even seen artists say explicitly that they’re drawing something in “Toriyama’s style” without mentioning Dragon Ball or Dragon Quest. Example: post #967040

Regardless, we do need to be able to identify the style itself. Here’s an example: try searching pony or hedgehog or echidna. See the problem? Currently, we can search -(whatever franchise) and get much better results if you’re looking for art based on the animal itself rather than these highly stylized versions (I mean, does Sonic really look like a hedgehog? Barely. Sonic species in particular are so abstracted from the original species that you wouldn’t even know what they are without their names) but then the problem of fan characters emerges. Especially when it comes to MLP that has so many fan characters that, if we were to stop using the MLP copyright tag for fan characters without any canon MLP content, you’d still have a hard time sifting through all the technicolor ponies trying to find more natural depictions of the species.

However, as has been thoroughly proven already, continuing to use the MLP copyright tag for fan characters is problematic. I see no solution other than to tag the style itself in place of actual franchise copyright tags. Simply not having a tag for it isn’t a solution.

watsit said:
Meta might be more appropriate. Although using copyright tags wouldn't be the most far-out thing (copyright tags do get used to handle themes and such), it definitely shouldn't be linked to a real copyright/IP in any case since that can have legal ramifications (and also because when some style is shared between completely separate franchises, it wouldn't be fair to name it after one rather than the other, putting the other in the shadow of the first).

Yeah, this is what I was thinking. Meta tags that indicate the art style itself without being linked to any franchise.

watsit said:
it definitely shouldn't be linked to a real copyright/IP in any case since that can have legal ramifications (and also because when some style is shared between completely separate franchises, it wouldn't be fair to name it after one rather than the other, putting the other in the shadow of the first).

There is a snowball's chance in hell any legal team would ever use e621 tags for any type of "legal ramifications" other than them using them to DMCA posts on here. And TFH is always going to be in the shadow of MLP because that is what it looks like and started as, an MLP fighting game and if there's ever any kind of legal ramifications against TFH for being confused with MLP G4 it'll be because of the countless articles and youtube videos that put "My Little Pony Fighting Game" in the title next to a TFH screenshot

watsit said:
And as this thread shows, is heavily overtagged as a result of being used on anything in a vague "MLP style" that has no actual content from the MLP franchise. Which is an issue causing trouble for the tag.

This thread doesn't show that though, out of the 9 people who've talked in here 4 agree with me that "vague "MLP style"" should be marked using the Copyright tag so people can easily blacklist them 3 agree with you and 2 didn't say anything one way or another. And how is it causing trouble for the tag when Fan Character with no MLP character make up 12.5% of that tag or 32.9k posts, getting rid of the MLP tag from those posts would clog the fuck out of tags like Pony and Horse with MLP style fan art

It would add about 14.5k to Horse's about 46.5k
And about 14k to Pony's about 1.9k which would tower and clog that tag and make it unusable unless you want to see MLP Fan Art

watsit said:
But we're talking about stuff in the style of the show, not the show itself. If I want to find art in the style of MLP G1, but keep art in the style of MLP G3/4/etc blacklisted, how could I?

How can you do that now? When 99.999999999999999% of the fan art done and posted is in the G4/5 style almost no one is going to be looking for Pre-G4 art but like I pointed out there are tags for the characters and shows and movies.

watsit said:
That's not correct, as this thread shows. Different people have different criteria when it comes to what exactly "MLP style" or "Sonic style" is, we don't agree on where the line is (you for instance seem to have a very vague/loose interpretation of what should count, while I would favor a more restricted interpretation), and we don't agree whether style shifts count, or how to deal with shared styles. The MLP and Sonic tags are being handled extremely vague right now and being over-tagged.

You can't just say "that's not correct" when more than half the people in this thread disagree with you, and the two not TFH pieces you keep reposting the one includes "MLP" in the source's tags and the other the owner of the Fan Character called her fan character an "MLP Fan Character"

watsit said:
About 1.4K posts in Dragon Quest and 4.1K posts in Dragon Ball currently, that's not "little". Sure, it's not the wild numbers MLP and Sonic have (which again should be pointed out are currently inflated due to people using them to tag some vague idea of art style rather than actual franchise content), but it's still a fair number for a distinctive style. If it's worth tagging "MLP style" and "Sonic style" because people like it (and people want to avoid it), there's no reason not to tag "DQ style" or "DB style" because there are people who like it (and people want to avoid it).

I have no idea what you're trying to say. Please use proper punctuation, it would really help us understand you.

I didn't say Dragon Quest and Dragon Ball had small or little tags, I said there were little to no fan characters or art being made in the shows/game's style and again instead of having "Style" tags you could just tag Fan_Characters with Fan_Characters and for art that is just in the style but has no character in it there's 1.5k zero_pictured posts so who cares