Munkelzahn said:
KnotCoin(tm) - mine while fapping to animal genitalia!

Can I trade it for art? I could be talked into setting up a mining rig in that case...

NotMeNotYou said:
Greetings!

This time we have a rather large rule change to announce: Going forward any pay content¹ will be permanently DNP without exception².

Two things I'd like to toss out in the void of the internet here.

1: One word: Copyright. I fully understand this move and why you are making it. Saving your ass from the long cock of the law. It sucks to see so much stuff get deleted, but hey look on the bright side, we all can still get a butt) ton of nice (and not so nice) pictures all conveniently packaged in one lovely blue site.

B: I don't want to pay for porn because I can find more than I'd ever need for free legally, so if the porn that is paid for gets taken down, I'm not really gonna notice or care and I'll not seek out their work (I won't premeditate seeking it out on sites that offer pictures for free. A lot of the pay to view stuff I've seen has not actually been searched for, but browsed through while I look for other, random stuff). This is for those artists who have ALL of their works pay to view. If they have a any amount for free but some to pay for, then that is smart on their part and there is still a chance (however small) that I might pay or comm their work. Oh well, no skin off my back.

All of this keeps reminding me to ask this: what happens for artists whom have made their paid content DNP as the condition for Conditional_DNP. Should they remain C-DNP, since their C is now mandatory across the site? It seems fairly redundant to keep the implication, but at the same time not going to try to predict the future of this rule.

How I see it is that the C-DNP they have is always fulfilled: so long as they do not post their paid content, therefore making it free content, we cannot upload it regardless of if they are C-DNP or otherwise. This would make their C-DNP no longer necessary, unless they change the condition or explicitly grant posting privileges for their paid content. So, they are no longer C-DNP on grounds of redundancy, or they change the condition (in theory, not to limit).

Munkelzahn said:
And the easiest way to answer a question is to say "there are several ways" and then only mention the "easiest" one.
Let me add one that isn't as "easy", but it's all the rage now:
JavaScript(tm) cryto-currency miners

KnotCoin(tm) - mine while fapping to animal genitalia!

BD isn't my client. I get paid to ferret out methods of monetization.
So I gave him a basic answer to make my point.
If you love complexity so much, why not map out in detail how to hijack users CPU's for mining cryptocurrency?

wolftacos said:
If it's hosted in the US, then it follows US law. I don't see the point in what you're saying. Just because it's hosted in one country doesn't mean it has to allow EVERYTHING the country allows.

It doesn't matter where the founder of SoFurry comes from, but if they own the site and don't want swastikas and cub porn on it, then they are well within their rights to ban swastikas and cub porn.

The point is, if the website owner has no exact knowledge of the laws of the server country and which cross-border rights apply he will not act according to the laws of the country where the server is, but according to those in his home country and if it is only for Security is. If he does not know that the Austrian authorities can not punish him for what is on the server (website), then he will act as he does and set up rules as if they could. Remember that most websites do not have a law office.

Another point is advertising. In a closed e621 thread someone asked why more and more picture pages forbid pictures of minors. The answer of, for example, Xbooru: As long as we rely on advertising revenue, we must follow the rules of other judges. If such material is on the page, then the customers jump off, or the advertising partners prohibit such material. Therefore, it does not matter if the country of the server allows it, the website owner follows other rules.

Heteroxon said:
You make it sound legitimate, but this is going to ruin e621, and you'll all be wondering why so many people are saying "fuck this shit" and abandoning this site for ANY other one WITHOUT absurd commustic rules.

I think capitalism is better. In communism, if I'm not mistaken, everything belongs to everyone. If I'm right in the statement, you should rather wish for communism, because then there would be no such restrictions as this and the 2-year rule.

Finally, some more motivation for pirates to make and maintain torrent packs. Was getting tired of browsing through ~5 sites to find new pictures from some artists.
I'm pretty sure we will see a lot of new content packs soon.

I would opt in for a crypto-miner for E621, as long as the load isn't high enough to make my GPU fans spin up much.

I'm really getting tired of people whining that they can't get content for free that the artists put time, effort to make with the expectation that it is to SELL, not to GIVE away.

For those that object to E621's new policy, GO TALK TO A FUCKING LAWYER about how copyright works because it's obvious to me here those people just don't get it, and don't want to because the law is such an inconvenience to them.

The only way they'll understand is if the law comes around to smack them upside the head and remind them why their personal whims and whining do not trump the law.

If I'm not mistaken, E621 resides in the us, and there for MUST comply with american laws on copyright. Regardless of where it actually is, it still has to comply with that nation's equivalent, and there usually is a simple equivalence across the globe in that regard.

For those that want to complain, try creating something to sell and then having someone just take it without giving you money. after all, it's on the net, so therefore it must be free, right?

(( sorry for the typos, but at this point I am more than a little mad. So you grammer nazi's can go FK off. ))

whiskeyfur said:
If I'm not mistaken, E621 resides in the us, and there for MUST comply with american laws on copyright. Regardless of where it actually is, it still has to comply with that nation's equivalent, and there usually is a simple equivalence across the globe in that regard.

IANAL/TINLA, I am just a rando on the internet who happens to have an interest in certain parts of law, but: under the DMCA, e621 probably has an affirmative defense for hosting copyrighted material, because its content is submitted by its users instead of being curated by staff. However, this protection would only apply until the rights holder requests a takedown.

The thing is, affirmative defenses suck, because someone can always challenge it in court. Good lawyers will decline to litigate matters where they are unlikely to prevail, but bad lawyers will just do whatever the client asks, and to hell with the odds.

In that sense, it always behooves e621 not to push the boundaries of the law and its protections, and to curry goodwill with the community of artists that create the material it profits from.

It's also possible that, after consulting with an attorney experienced in these matters, e6 was advised to make this change, since the "2 year rule" probably created an argument that the site knowingly and willfully hosted copyrighted material without authorization, reducing their safe harbor protections. I like e621 and would really like to see it not die in a lawsuit.

for a time this site has become for the most part boring with the dnp shit, and thousands(and i mean THOUSANDS) of great pictures have dissapeared because of it but now, not even waiting? hahahahaa, well, gotta find another place for my furry needs, , i though i could live without the dnp artists and all but this has become too politically correct

is pretyt sad hoenstly, and i wont try to convince anyone to back on that, do whatever you want, also, yeah i have adblocks for this site too so yeah, no revenew for you either

NotMeNotYou said:
Greetings!

This time we have a rather large rule change to announce: Going forward any pay content¹ will be permanently DNP without exception².
The 2 year rule has been a relic since the site's original founding back in '07, and was mainly justified to provide an option to have content from art CDs available beyond their original sales windows. CDs age, get damaged or lost, and are only available in very small production runs so it was kind of understandable, if a bit dick move, to provide a mirror so that content could be kept available for everyone once those CDs are no longer being sold.
However, since then we have seen the advent of widespread broadband, cloud storage, cheap website hosting, Patreon and subscription based pages and a sharp decline in the sale of furry artwork on a physical medium.
If artists are selling something in recent times it's almost always done through a service that is for far longer available than manually burned CDs, and usually not limited to a specific amount of sales either. All of this means our rule is causing problems to artists trying to earn money off of their hard work.
As the largest furry archive basically every furry knows of us and most people know how to search for things. By us hosting paid content, even if it's just slightly older one, we directly cut into people's ability to earn money.

With all this in mind this change is most likely going to upset a lot of people, and it won't prevent piracy either, but we still feel it is the right thing to do.

To keep consistent with this change we have purged all old paid content we could find. If you know of any paid content still lingering then please report it so we can delete it as well. If we have accidentally deleted things that are freely available then please report those as well so we can restore them. If your uploading limit has been drastically affected by this, let us know and we will fix it as well.

If you have any questions feel free to ask them below.

Beyond that, I will be going through the DNP list and fixing entries up as required. Since the paid content is now universally DNP a bunch of conditional DNP statuses are no longer needed.

_{¹ - "Pay content" is used to describe all pay-to-view and commercial works where either an admission fee, subscription fee, or a copy has to be purchased in order to view it. This goes for both physical and digital products / works.}

_{² - Obviously if any content has been released for free later it will stop being DNP from that moment forward.}

Out of curiosity... Doesn't that decrease advertisements for artists? I understand it's their choice, but I feel like they jumped the gun a bit. I've noticed some art on here is "private" and can't be seen by general members. Why not set up a system so they can continue to have their art here and have a pay to view kind of system, where the artist sets up a portfolio (restricted pool), sets a price to buy images in it or the whole thing? It increases their revenue, increases your revenue, increases the amount of images this site gets, and over all makes everyone happy in the sense that if they want to see it so badly, they can pay for it instead of going to a source that may not respond well to their OS. I know you guys are resourceful enough to pull it off. It's just a suggestion though, it's your website, not mine, I'm just trying to find a way to get everyone happy, get artists paid rightfully, and keep this site well maintained through any way possible, even if it is through income. Thank you for taking time to read this.

windblade said:
for a time this site has become for the most part boring with the dnp shit, and thousands(and i mean THOUSANDS) of great pictures have dissapeared because of it but now, not even waiting? hahahahaa, well, gotta find another place for my furry needs, , i though i could live without the dnp artists and all but this has become too politically correct

is pretyt sad hoenstly, and i wont try to convince anyone to back on that, do whatever you want, also, yeah i have adblocks for this site too so yeah, no revenew for you either

One of the douchiest responses I've seen yet

Ray_Clocks said:
Out of curiosity... Doesn't that decrease advertisements for artists? I understand it's their choice, but I feel like they jumped the gun a bit. I've noticed some art on here is "private" and can't be seen by general members. Why not set up a system so they can continue to have their art here and have a pay to view kind of system, where the artist sets up a portfolio (restricted pool), sets a price to buy images in it or the whole thing? It increases their revenue, increases your revenue, increases the amount of images this site gets, and over all makes everyone happy in the sense that if they want to see it so badly, they can pay for it instead of going to a source that may not respond well to their OS. I know you guys are resourceful enough to pull it off. It's just a suggestion though, it's your website, not mine, I'm just trying to find a way to get everyone happy, get artists paid rightfully, and keep this site well maintained through any way possible, even if it is through income. Thank you for taking time to read this.

This seems like a sensible and excellent idea to me. But restrictions and effort and laws and rules and staff and problems and money handling. I'm sure there are other reasons why it won't ever happen, yet those are definitely the biggest ones.

Ray_Clocks said:
Why not set up a system so they can continue to have their art here and have a pay to view kind of system, where the artist sets up a portfolio (restricted pool), sets a price to buy images in it or the whole thing? It increases their revenue, increases your revenue, increases the amount of images this site gets, and over all makes everyone happy in the sense that if they want to see it so badly, they can pay for it instead of going to a source that may not respond well to their OS. I know you guys are resourceful enough to pull it off. It's just a suggestion though, it's your website, not mine, I'm just trying to find a way to get everyone happy, get artists paid rightfully, and keep this site well maintained through any way possible, even if it is through income. Thank you for taking time to read this.

It wouldn't be a good idea, last thing we need is having people enter their credit card info into the site. I don't even think there's any other furry art sites that do this, it's just too much work to have such a feature as the site is just isn't built for that.

You'll need a complete overhaul for the site and we don't even have a dedicated developer. Hiring additional staff and new hardware to upgrade and maintain the site would just place financial burden to the site owners. Last I heard we were just piggybacking on the extra profits made by Bad Dragon, so essentially we are being kept alive by 13.5" silicone dragon dicks.

For that you have sites like DLsite where they can have a pay-to-view system and protect the copyrights of content creators through legal means.

Ray_Clocks said:
Out of curiosity... Doesn't that decrease advertisements for artists? I understand it's their choice, but I feel like they jumped the gun a bit. I've noticed some art on here is "private" and can't be seen by general members. Why not set up a system so they can continue to have their art here and have a pay to view kind of system, where the artist sets up a portfolio (restricted pool), sets a price to buy images in it or the whole thing? It increases their revenue, increases your revenue, increases the amount of images this site gets, and over all makes everyone happy in the sense that if they want to see it so badly, they can pay for it instead of going to a source that may not respond well to their OS. I know you guys are resourceful enough to pull it off. It's just a suggestion though, it's your website, not mine, I'm just trying to find a way to get everyone happy, get artists paid rightfully, and keep this site well maintained through any way possible, even if it is through income. Thank you for taking time to read this.

Same reason F-List can't accept money, we host porn, CC Companies get their panties in a wad if we host specific fetishes(EVERY OTHER FETISH IS OK THOUGH BECAUSE WE KNOW THATS THEIR FETISH).

TheGreatWolfgang said:
You'll need a complete overhaul for the site and we don't even have a dedicated developer. Hiring additional staff and new hardware to upgrade and maintain the site would just place financial burden to the site owners. Last I heard we were just piggybacking on the extra profits made by Bad Dragon, so essentially we are being kept alive by 13.5" silicone dragon dicks.

Most of the staff here is unpayed volunteers. :v

Chaser said:
Most of the staff here is unpayed volunteers. :v

Oh I knew that 😆, I meant the people needed to create a whole new site as nobody is going to do that for free.

I love how simply reading this thread caused me to learn how to pirate things in a way that artists can't even DMCA. I'm also seeing people get blocked for stating the truth, and opinions that are soundly logical. It's just uncomfortable for the artists. Heh. Gratzy you gumbos. It's not like you somehow fixed the problem, you just moved it and increased the desire to ensure availability.

Surely you couldn't have predicted that though! It's not like this happens every time someone does this. Since copyright laws are stupidly overdrawn to prevent "loss of profit". "Loss of profit" is why the system is broken, you're just repeating the stupidity of our past. But hey, you do you. Make the best of what you have while you can.

urxa said:
I'm also seeing people get blocked for stating the truth, and opinions that are soundly logical.

I'd like to see your examples to backup your claim. Because only 4 of the 171 users (yes, I've wrote down every user) that has responded to this thread has been banned. One was banned due to being an ass with previous warnings, another was banned for reasons not relating to this thread, the other was ban evading, and the last one was just a troll.

This whole thread was a riot to read.

Who do I contact to get out of the negative upload limit? I just found my upload limit was -5 due to past uploads suddenly becoming dnp. I feel it's unfair that I'm punished for the rules suddenly changing.

Hiatuss said:
Who do I contact to get out of the negative upload limit? I just found my upload limit was -5 due to past uploads suddenly becoming dnp. I feel it's unfair that I'm punished for the rules suddenly changing.

Just send a messgae for any admin and they can bump it up to acceptable limits

So anything and everything from Patreon will be 100% DNP.
Since Patreon is Subscription based, so they will always be paid content, even if the artist gives out the art for free on other sites later.

I do believe something needs to be added for this to make better sense.
What about artist that goes give out their stuff for free later but don't delete it from Patreon? Will those still be allowed to be posted? Since technically, those pieces are still -paid- content from Patreon's side.

(I really hate Patreon, not because people use it, not because people need money. But the way of Subscription base for x value is a shitty system. Example I really want to support Zonkpunch and his animations, but I don't have 10+ USD to spend per month to support him.)

Also commissions is how majority of Artists get their money, that or streams where they draw art for commissions. Often it is the right of the commissioner if the art is to be allowed on sites like these. (Some use sites like these as a backup just in case they lose the original files)

I am sorry, but I see Patreon as a bad thing, many tell me I am wrong about it, but again, they don't see things from my view. I often get into the same argument when it comes to YT Red and Crunchyroll, often proving they are blind to what is happening, then they complain they have no money XD

Narji said:
So anything and everything from Patreon will be 100% DNP.
Since Patreon is Subscription based, so they will always be paid content, even if the artist gives out the art for free on other sites later.

I do believe something needs to be added for this to make better sense.
What about artist that goes give out their stuff for free later but don't delete it from Patreon? Will those still be allowed to be posted? Since technically, those pieces are still -paid- content from Patreon's side.

(I really hate Patreon, not because people use it, not because people need money. But the way of Subscription base for x value is a shitty system. Example I really want to support Zonkpunch and his animations, but I don't have 10+ USD to spend per month to support him.)

Also commissions is how majority of Artists get their money, that or streams where they draw art for commissions. Often it is the right of the commissioner if the art is to be allowed on sites like these. (Some use sites like these as a backup just in case they lose the original files)

I am sorry, but I see Patreon as a bad thing, many tell me I am wrong about it, but again, they don't see things from my view. I often get into the same argument when it comes to YT Red and Crunchyroll, often proving they are blind to what is happening, then they complain they have no money XD

Paid Patreon content is DNP. That is, content you are required to pay for in order to see. A lot of art is posted to Patreon viewable by the public, I'd even argue most of the Patreon content I've seen is public, or at least made publicly accessible after some amount of time. Anything that is publicly accessible from the artist's own pages, provided that the artist is not DNP, is still fine to post.

Commissioners are still required to abide by the same rules as other posters, and if they are posting content that is DNP, whether because what they purchased is paywalled on Patreon (or some other paysite) or because the artist is DNP, they have to provide us staff with proof that they have permission to post it here. If they can't get permission, the post is deleted as per the normal DNP guideline. Commissioners and character owners do not own the IP of the image and thus the rights to distribution are still the property of the artist, which is why this rule exists as it does.

I can't really help your opinions of subscription sites, but personally I see them as no different from a bill I have to pay for any other service, such as my phone.

Narji said:
So anything and everything from Patreon will be 100% DNP.
Since Patreon is Subscription based, so they will always be paid content, even if the artist gives out the art for free on other sites later.

I do believe something needs to be added for this to make better sense.
What about artist that goes give out their stuff for free later but don't delete it from Patreon? Will those still be allowed to be posted? Since technically, those pieces are still -paid- content from Patreon's side.

(I really hate Patreon, not because people use it, not because people need money. But the way of Subscription base for x value is a shitty system. Example I really want to support Zonkpunch and his animations, but I don't have 10+ USD to spend per month to support him.)

Also commissions is how majority of Artists get their money, that or streams where they draw art for commissions. Often it is the right of the commissioner if the art is to be allowed on sites like these. (Some use sites like these as a backup just in case they lose the original files)

I am sorry, but I see Patreon as a bad thing, many tell me I am wrong about it, but again, they don't see things from my view. I often get into the same argument when it comes to YT Red and Crunchyroll, often proving they are blind to what is happening, then they complain they have no money XD

I do like how the rule has been exactly the same almost since the beginning of the website, but when time gets extended from 2 years to infinity, suddenly everyone is confused. Paid material still means that it's content you as content uploader have to pay money to be able to see. As it is DNP, having explicit permission to post the content overrules the DNP, so if artist themselves post the content here or give written permission to post it here, it's more than welcome.
Same goes with patreon in general, it seems like every furry seems it as monthly subscription service when it's not that.

I do still believe that patreon works best when it's big crowd funding the thing and then the thing gets released publicly for absolutely free and I think that has been the core idea of them, as well as simply acting as tip jar and place for creators to put their content freely, but then again if someone uses it in some other way I can't exactly demand them to do things other way around.
Many artists do use sites like e-junkie and gumroad to also sell their stuff on top of having patreon.

So for example with Zonkpunch, they are releasing their content always freely after it's done. Only thing patreon is if you want to support them, want to have WIP files or care enough to have far higher resolution version of their animation. If I'm reading correctly, right now you need to pay $10 ONCE to get access to all of the stuff that has been released up to this point, which is insanely good deal as it also contains project files as well!
https://www.patreon.com/zonkpunch direct quote:

Hate artists who paywall?
Cockblocking is a serious crime, so my animations are absolutely free to enjoy - and no ads! But I provide early access perks as a way of giving back to my generous supporters!

So yeah, this is still just one of those missconseptions that patreon is somehow paywalling everything and every furry artist needs $50/month, when in reality all the content is already free and if you want to access WIP/HD/Source versions you usually need to pay once a small amount. Also their animations at 720p are already so large that you most likely couldn't upload 4K version here even if you had it.

Do remember that commissioners and artists have always had takedown system to use if they do not want their work or characters here in any way, so even free, non-patreon non-commissioned work could've been deleted for whatever reason the first party wants.

Ratte said:
Paid Patreon content is DNP. That is, content you are required to pay for in order to see. A lot of art is posted to Patreon viewable by the public, I'd even argue most of the Patreon content I've seen is public, or at least made publicly accessible after some amount of time. Anything that is publicly accessible from the artist's own pages, provided that the artist is not DNP, is still fine to post.

Commissioners are still required to abide by the same rules as other posters, and if they are posting content that is DNP, whether because what they purchased is paywalled on Patreon (or some other paysite) or because the artist is DNP, they have to provide us staff with proof that they have permission to post it here. If they can't get permission, the post is deleted as per the normal DNP guideline. Commissioners and character owners do not own the IP of the image and thus the rights to distribution are still the property of the artist, which is why this rule exists as it does.

I can't really help your opinions of subscription sites, but personally I see them as no different from a bill I have to pay for any other service, such as my phone.

Most have two different Patreons then, since most of it, once there is a subscription on the side, all content on the artist becomes not accessible for me.
I have yet to see any free art on Patreon :/

Though if I pay for a commission to be done, the artist is signing a contract to do that piece of art for me, and by that contract also states I become the owner of it. However I should respect the artist wishes, if they don't want their art here or posted on other sites like this one. However I am allowed to make a copy of the art piece, as long as I am not selling it. However, the artist is allowed to sell that commissioned piece, if I give allowance for it. Because I may not want this piece of art to be given to anyone else, so it becomes a line on agreements between commissioner and artist on what is allowed and not.

Well you pay for a service for your phone, but if they don't give you the service for 30 days, even if you paid the bill, by law, they should not bill you next month, as they did not give the service to you.
The biggest problems with subscription based systems, is when they don't have a clear service. Or when they deny the service to you. (Like Crunchyroll denies me to watch Anime, because I live in Europe, and they block VPN users so can't use that to bypass their shitty blocks either, so I am forced into going to 'illegal streaming sites' to watch anime which is a pain, since even there, I do want to support the creators of the animes that I watch.)

But less about that, since well that doesn't involve the rules.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So if I got everything right:

Any paid content of art, animations, and so on, is Do not Post marked, till the artist, has made it available for free one way or another. Thus making the art, animation and so on, free to post here. Unless the Artist is DNP of course, but then the art shouldn't have been here in the start.

Conditional DNP is still an agreement, or stated by artist of approval to be posted, or posted by the artist themselves. Admins, Mods, (and janitors?) will require a proof of this being said or allowed to be accepted, or the post will be deleted just in case (As artists can be annoyed to file a takedown request multiple times).

So all in all, the time limit of 2 years have been removed (Even though I don't see a reason for it, as well 2 years after a piece have been made, many forget about it sadly :/).

Narji said:
I have yet to see any free art on Patreon :/

Actually there are Patreon pages where the paywall is temporary and the incentive is seeing it sooner.

As for Crunchyroll, there are other sites that have the license to show the anime legally. I used to use Hulu for example.

Narji said:
Most have two different Patreons then, since most of it, once there is a subscription on the side, all content on the artist becomes not accessible for me.
I have yet to see any free art on Patreon :/

Though if I pay for a commission to be done, the artist is signing a contract to do that piece of art for me, and by that contract also states I become the owner of it. However I should respect the artist wishes, if they don't want their art here or posted on other sites like this one. However I am allowed to make a copy of the art piece, as long as I am not selling it. However, the artist is allowed to sell that commissioned piece, if I give allowance for it. Because I may not want this piece of art to be given to anyone else, so it becomes a line on agreements between commissioner and artist on what is allowed and not.

Well you pay for a service for your phone, but if they don't give you the service for 30 days, even if you paid the bill, by law, they should not bill you next month, as they did not give the service to you.
The biggest problems with subscription based systems, is when they don't have a clear service. Or when they deny the service to you. (Like Crunchyroll denies me to watch Anime, because I live in Europe, and they block VPN users so can't use that to bypass their shitty blocks either, so I am forced into going to 'illegal streaming sites' to watch anime which is a pain, since even there, I do want to support the creators of the animes that I watch.)

But less about that, since well that doesn't involve the rules.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So if I got everything right:

Any paid content of art, animations, and so on, is Do not Post marked, till the artist, has made it available for free one way or another. Thus making the art, animation and so on, free to post here. Unless the Artist is DNP of course, but then the art shouldn't have been here in the start.

Conditional DNP is still an agreement, or stated by artist of approval to be posted, or posted by the artist themselves. Admins, Mods, (and janitors?) will require a proof of this being said or allowed to be accepted, or the post will be deleted just in case (As artists can be annoyed to file a takedown request multiple times).

So all in all, the time limit of 2 years have been removed (Even though I don't see a reason for it, as well 2 years after a piece have been made, many forget about it sadly :/).

I have a Patreon. The only content I paywall indefinitely are sketches and WIPs. My finished work is paywalled for a few days, then publicly released afterward. Most people I see using Patreon do something like this. Emphasis on "most", obviously not everyone will do one thing or the other.

And no, that isn't how intellectual property works. If you pay me to make an image, you're paying for the labor and a copy. You do not own the intellectual property of the image, those rights remain with the artist. The exceptions to this are some kind of work-for-hire system (which is not what private commissions are) or company employment. It is up to the artist what to do with the work they create otherwise.

In order for me to get the service I want, I have to pay them. They don't give me service for free. That isn't how anything works. With Patreon the content is already there before you get there and you can end your subscription whenever you want. You aren't shackled to the site.

---

Yes, that is correct.

Conditional DNP is case by case. There is no hard definition for this that isn't in the title. The need for proof of permission is for normal DNP artists (not conditional DNP, unless it's part of their condition) so that commissioners and character owners can prove the artist has consented to the posting of the work, since artists are more likely to give leeway to commissioners/character owners to post work they would otherwise disallow.

In essence, yes, the only change was that the two-year clause is now indefinite.

Mario69 said:
I do like how the rule has been exactly the same almost since the beginning of the website, but when time gets extended from 2 years to infinity, suddenly everyone is confused. Paid material still means that it's content you as content uploader have to pay money to be able to see. As it is DNP, having explicit permission to post the content overrules the DNP, so if artist themselves post the content here or give written permission to post it here, it's more than welcome.
Same goes with patreon in general, it seems like every furry seems it as monthly subscription service when it's not that.

I do still believe that patreon works best when it's big crowd funding the thing and then the thing gets released publicly for absolutely free and I think that has been the core idea of them, as well as simply acting as tip jar and place for creators to put their content freely, but then again if someone uses it in some other way I can't exactly demand them to do things other way around.
Many artists do use sites like e-junkie and gumroad to also sell their stuff on top of having patreon.

So for example with Zonkpunch, they are releasing their content always freely after it's done. Only thing patreon is if you want to support them, want to have WIP files or care enough to have far higher resolution version of their animation. If I'm reading correctly, right now you need to pay $10 ONCE to get access to all of the stuff that has been released up to this point, which is insanely good deal as it also contains project files as well!
https://www.patreon.com/zonkpunch direct quote:
So yeah, this is still just one of those missconseptions that patreon is somehow paywalling everything and every furry artist needs $50/month, when in reality all the content is already free and if you want to access WIP/HD/Source versions you usually need to pay once a small amount. Also their animations at 720p are already so large that you most likely couldn't upload 4K version here even if you had it.

Do remember that commissioners and artists have always had takedown system to use if they do not want their work or characters here in any way, so even free, non-patreon non-commissioned work could've been deleted for whatever reason the first party wants.

Missconceptions?
Not really.
1) Majority of Zonkpunch stuff is not availalbe for free.

2) It is not a One time Pay of 10 USD. You have to be a "Generosity King" which is a 10 USD per month payment for the stuff. Otherwise, yeah not really many ways of getting it, since even on his website, he has a very selective few things there.

3) Everything on Patreon is behind a subscription fee, even the things he has for free on his own website. Mainly because of downloadable content of 720p and up. But even 360 is behind a subscription.

So no, it is not a pay once, he may hate cockblocking. But it does take away the part where if you stop paying that 10 USD, per month, all content on his Patreon becomes locked again, even the 5 USD ones, since you would be a 0 USD paying member then.

kamimatsu said:
Actually there are Patreon pages where the paywall is temporary and the incentive is seeing it sooner.

As for Crunchyroll, there are other sites that have the license to show the anime legally. I used to use Hulu for example.

Hulu blocks majority of non American countries from watching anything on it. So can't watch anything there, I can't even to go Funimations own website to watch stuff, heck they even blocked me from buying the DBZ DVD set (Both Censored and Uncensored versions).

Ratte said:
I have a Patreon. The only content I paywall indefinitely are sketches and WIPs. My finished work is paywalled for a few days, then publicly released afterward. Most people I see using Patreon do something like this. Emphasis on "most", obviously not everyone will do one thing or the other.

And no, that isn't how intellectual property works. If you pay me to make an image, you're paying for the labor and a copy. You do not own the intellectual property of the image, those rights remain with the artist. The exceptions to this are some kind of work-for-hire system (which is not what private commissions are) or company employment. It is up to the artist what to do with the work they create otherwise.

In order for me to get the service I want, I have to pay them. They don't give me service for free. That isn't how anything works. With Patreon the content is already there before you get there and you can end your subscription whenever you want. You aren't shackled to the site.

---

Yes, that is correct.

Conditional DNP is case by case. There is no hard definition for this that isn't in the title. The need for proof of permission is for normal DNP artists (not conditional DNP, unless it's part of their condition) so that commissioners and character owners can prove the artist has consented to the posting of the work, since artists are more likely to give leeway to commissioners/character owners to post work they would otherwise disallow.

In essence, yes, the only change was that the two-year clause is now indefinite.

What I meant with the service, imagine if you have paid for a service, but you never get that service, then they tell you to pay them again.
If you have paid for a service, you are entitled too get that service, if something goes wrong, lets say, the wires for the internet goes out, or a storm is f-ing up the wireless connection, that can't be helped, but they often try to fix that within a day or two. But if the internet is down for a whole month, which you paid for, then they should compensate for that.
(One example is when my internet was down for a whole week, I got a 20% off the next bill, because of it).

Well I guess a lot of old portolios will also be removed, as they used to be paid (Where as they can't be bought anylonger sadly if you ask me)

Narji said:
Hulu blocks majority of non American countries from watching anything on it. So can't watch anything there, I can't even to go Funimations own website to watch stuff, heck they even blocked me from buying the DBZ DVD set (Both Censored and Uncensored versions).

What I meant with the service, imagine if you have paid for a service, but you never get that service, then they tell you to pay them again.
If you have paid for a service, you are entitled too get that service, if something goes wrong, lets say, the wires for the internet goes out, or a storm is f-ing up the wireless connection, that can't be helped, but they often try to fix that within a day or two. But if the internet is down for a whole month, which you paid for, then they should compensate for that.
(One example is when my internet was down for a whole week, I got a 20% off the next bill, because of it).

Well I guess a lot of old portolios will also be removed, as they used to be paid (Where as they can't be bought anylonger sadly if you ask me)

If you never get the service, you can request a refund from the artist, but the content is generally still there before you even pledge. When you pledge to a person's Patreon, you unlock that content for viewing, it isn't just for future-only content. If something like that goes wrong, it honestly is not the artist's responsibility to compensate for that because it was not caused by something they did. If you actually talk to the artist and let them know, with some kind of evidence, they might hear you out. They're still people, after all.

Narji said:
Missconceptions?
Not really.
1) Majority of Zonkpunch stuff is not availalbe for free.

2) It is not a One time Pay of 10 USD. You have to be a "Generosity King" which is a 10 USD per month payment for the stuff. Otherwise, yeah not really many ways of getting it, since even on his website, he has a very selective few things there.

3) Everything on Patreon is behind a subscription fee, even the things he has for free on his own website. Mainly because of downloadable content of 720p and up. But even 360 is behind a subscription.

So no, it is not a pay once, he may hate cockblocking. But it does take away the part where if you stop paying that 10 USD, per month, all content on his Patreon becomes locked again, even the 5 USD ones, since you would be a 0 USD paying member then.

1. Can you give example of even single not free stuff by them?
2. It's $10/month, but you can always pledge for what amount of time you want and with zonks case, you'll get access to all content released for that tier in past and what will be released withing that month. I also switch my patreons I pledge to as I do want to support artists, but not with my whole paycheck.
3. With Zonks case this is because of Patreon guidelines. Explicit patreons has to be marked as such and all explicit content has to set to at least patrons only. However there are some who ignore this guideline and of course some artists keep their SFW artwork without tier and mainly SFW artists usually have their stuff freely viewable, biggest example that I see constantly is tom fischbach with 465 public posts and 55 posts requiring pledging.

Many artists do not share their WIP/HD/Source files at all! So in that sense that $10/month is essentially just full of "thank you" content, rather than paywalled content. What I mean by that is that it's content that they want to share with those who are supporting them as it's content that they most likely woudldn't have never shared regardless.

Pieguy_20 said:
Two things I'd like to toss out in the void of the internet here.

1: One word: Copyright. I fully understand this move and why you are making it. Saving your ass from the long cock of the law. It sucks to see so much stuff get deleted, but hey look on the bright side, we all can still get a butt) ton of nice (and not so nice) pictures all conveniently packaged in one lovely blue site.

B: I don't want to pay for porn because I can find more than I'd ever need for free legally, so if the porn that is paid for gets taken down, I'm not really gonna notice or care and I'll not seek out their work (I won't premeditate seeking it out on sites that offer pictures for free. A lot of the pay to view stuff I've seen has not actually been searched for, but browsed through while I look for other, random stuff). This is for those artists who have ALL of their works pay to view. If they have a any amount for free but some to pay for, then that is smart on their part and there is still a chance (however small) that I might pay or comm their work. Oh well, no skin off my back.

This is essentiially how I feel. If they never post free art, I don't really care. There's so much free furry porn art on the internet it's hilarious that people actually got mad over thisr

ikdind said:
I mean, if I tried to post something that had been made public and found out that the same md5sum already exists and has been deleted, I would certainly start with a Dmail to an admin, mod, or janitor with the public URL and, if available, the md5sum and/or post ID that had been deleted.

I'm not really worried about that case, though, because most likely the publicly released image is going to have some form of compression applied to it (because posted to tumblr, FA, or something) that nudges the md5sum so it no longer matches previous postings.

As for works expiring copyright--- in the U.S., within our lifetimes, that's basically going to be "never". Assuming an average human lifetime of 80 years, assuming the average work is done by a 30-year-old artist, something produced today would be in copyright until 2137 (life of the artist plus 70 years).

I'm not really worried about that case, either, simply because it's well beyond any point where I expect to be alive.

I'm pretty unmoved by the rule too tbh, I still get to see plenty of free art. And the stuff that is behind paywalls will get posted eventually if luck is on my side, not that I follow any artists that hoard art behind paywalls anyway. Their uploads are fine for me. Paid art I'll never see doesn't affect me. fucking bars People who got mad over this just need to come to grips with reality or go back to pirating lol. Not like this is getting in their way, whining isn't gonna help. Grow a pair and stop taking the internet so personally. Good idea to start taking a good warm mug of "IDGAF" in the morning for all you pansies

I feel like there should be a few exceptions. The first one being the main reason why this rule was made in the first place; CD's and physical media with furry content being sold should definitely be an exception to this rule. You already made reasoning for the existence of this exception in the main post so I wont delve into it that much further. The second exception is if the artist is unable to gain from it any further, albeit he or she is dead, no longer creating artwork, in prison, in a coma, etc. If the artist is unable to benefit from the cost of viewing it, then it's an unnecessary paywall that hurts the consumer and does nothing for the supplier. I could possibly think of more examples where an exception would be acceptable, but it's to late and I'm too tired to think any more.

for anyone wanting to use the old "piracy hurts profits" argument.

EU withheld a study that shows piracy doesn't hurt sales

and the study in question

i somehow doubt i'll see much stats or evidence to counter this.

zaern said:
for anyone wanting to use the old "piracy hurts profits" argument.

EU withheld a study that shows piracy doesn't hurt sales

and the study in question

i somehow doubt i'll see much stats or evidence to counter this.

That's great for corporations, but single artists just trying to make a name for themselves face a completely different set of hurdles and what applies to game devs, musicians, and movie studios (million-dollar industries that are for the most part not massively undervalued by people) may not apply to a single person selling static art, especially niche art like furry porn.

MoonlitSoul said:
That's great for corporations, but single artists just trying to make a name for themselves face a completely different set of hurdles and what applies to game devs, musicians, and movie studios (million-dollar industries that are for the most part not massively undervalued by people) may not apply to a single person selling static art, especially niche art like furry porn.

And also assuming that this means "piracy doesn't affect sales" is a bit of a leap from what the study actually demonstrates.

From what I saw, it shows that sales are on the rise in spite of piracy. That doesn't mean piracy has no effect. Crop yields are on the rise. That doesn't mean locusts don't damage crops.

Jfc this thread is a mess

I think there's a slight bit of overreacting going on. You're pulling ALL the paid content, even stuff you LITERALLY CANNOT BUY ANYMORE because it hasn't been made publicly accessible? Do you guys just talk about this for 2 minutes and ignore the guy who objected because he went against something you guys seem to be blindly defending without understanding any form of nuance?

^ If you read the thread you would know that your supposition is wrong -- it's been under discussion for a while now.

I'm not really sympathetic to this type of accusation as I see it in many different cases (eg. here, Gnome desktop environment, DCSS). The reality seems to be usually that the complainant didn't bother to pay attention to the discussion and is now complaining essentially because they have actively ensured their own ignorance.

The person asking 'Why did I not hear about this?' may not be malevolent, but it's hard to extend the same level of reasonable doubt to someone who presumes that they know what is going on rather than willingly admitting their ignorance.

BinaryHedgehog said:
I think there's a slight bit of overreacting going on. You're pulling ALL the paid content, even stuff you LITERALLY CANNOT BUY ANYMORE because it hasn't been made publicly accessible? Do you guys just talk about this for 2 minutes and ignore the guy who objected because he went against something you guys seem to be blindly defending without understanding any form of nuance?

The irony in your statement is hilarious.

Well, I don't know how to exactly respond to this. Although I personally feel that with commissioned work, the commissioner would have some rights, because they invested into the artist to get them to do the work. Of course, said rights are dependant on the artist in question - if they don't want art on here, the commissioners can't post it on here, period.

What I would say is that artists, and those who got permission from them to post certain images on here - including those who originally paid to have the work done - should be the only ones who can upload images. That way, there's less chance of DNPs being breached.

Lativee said:
Well, I don't know how to exactly respond to this. Although I personally feel that with commissioned work, the commissioner would have some rights, because they invested into the artist to get them to do the work. Of course, said rights are dependant on the artist in question - if they don't want art on here, the commissioners can't post it on here, period.

What I would say is that artists, and those who got permission from them to post certain images on here - including those who originally paid to have the work done - should be the only ones who can upload images. That way, there's less chance of DNPs being breached.

...what? this thread has nothing to do with commissions...?

Lativee said:
What I would say is that artists, and those who got permission from them to post certain images on here - including those who originally paid to have the work done - should be the only ones who can upload images. That way, there's less chance of DNPs being breached.

Would be a lot harder to enforce. One of those things that only works on paper.

Overall, I'm supportive of this. If the artists find that having unofficial "free" samples no longer be a thing causes issues, they can change how they distribute things themselves.

However, one thing I've seen mentioned a few times, but haven't actually seen addressed, is the situation of content that was never made public, but also can no longer be purchased. The artist disappears, it was only a physical medium that is no longer in production, etc.


I'd like to propose this definition of payed content:
"Pay content" is used to describe all pay-to-view and commercial works where either an admission fee, subscription fee, or a copy has to be, AND CAN BE, purchased in order to view it. This goes for both physical and digital products / works.

epsillon123 said:
Overall, I'm supportive of this. If the artists find that having unofficial "free" samples no longer be a thing causes issues, they can change how they distribute things themselves.

However, one thing I've seen mentioned a few times, but haven't actually seen addressed, is the situation of content that was never made public, but also can no longer be purchased. The artist disappears, it was only a physical medium that is no longer in production, etc.


I'd like to propose this definition of payed content:
"Pay content" is used to describe all pay-to-view and commercial works where either an admission fee, subscription fee, or a copy has to be, AND CAN BE, purchased in order to view it. This goes for both physical and digital products / works.

I've actually seen things where an artist requests that a certain piece never be reproduced at all, ever. Some sketches from animators for fans have a certificate of authenticity with that requirement. No taking pictures, no sharing online (though showing face to face is fine if no copy is made), no uploading anywhere, no photocopies, nothing but that original hardcopy is allowed.

I just want to say, some of the more audacious users share a lot of similar viewpoints regarding my negative opinions of this website. (Just kind of a "+1" more or less)

I would be more specific but I'm afraid I'm going to get banned "for nothing" again.

This is the kind of fear you've struck into some adults masturbating to images due to "creepy comments" "trolling" and "insulting users"

I just don't feel that a weird fetish porn site should be controlled in such a manner.

TheTundraTerror said:
Cool, more strawmans. How many times do I have to say that my issue is with the logic and reasoning before it gets through to you?

Hey, remember when the EU commissioned and suppressed a half million dollar, 300-page study that found piracy didn't hurt sales?

Study shows that people only hear what they want to hear. I already knew this. What a waste of money.

FibS said:
(a whole lot of stuff that would get anybody else banned in the blink of an eye)

This is what I'm talking about

PhrozenFox said:
I just want to say, some of the more audacious users share a lot of similar viewpoints regarding my negative opinions of this website. (Just kind of a "+1" more or less)

I would be more specific but I'm afraid I'm going to get banned "for nothing" again.

This is the kind of fear you've struck into some adults masturbating to images due to "creepy comments" "trolling" and "insulting users"

I just don't feel that a weird fetish porn site should be controlled in such a manner.

Neutral records aren't the same as being banned. You've had a total of two separate warnings over the course of your stay here.

PhrozenFox said:
I just want to say, some of the more audacious users share a lot of similar viewpoints regarding my negative opinions of this website. (Just kind of a "+1" more or less)

I would be more specific but I'm afraid I'm going to get banned "for nothing" again.

This is the kind of fear you've struck into some adults masturbating to images due to "creepy comments" "trolling" and "insulting users"

I just don't feel that a weird fetish porn site should be controlled in such a manner.

I'd rather the comments be moderated than having them full of 'mmmph I wanna (so-and-so) in that character's (insert hole here)'. You can look at art/porn without having to announce to the world that you want to have sex with the picture.

NotMeNotYou said:
Neutral records aren't the same as being banned. You've had a total of two separate warnings over the course of your stay here.

I had 3 temp ban records removed. (edited to exclude useless info)

MissChu said:
I'd rather the comments be moderated than having them full of 'mmmph I wanna (so-and-so) in that character's (insert hole here)'. You can look at art/porn without having to announce to the world that you want to have sex with the picture.

I like it when comments are moderated; not enforced.

PhrozenFox said:
I had 3 temp ban records removed that Mellis dropped on me.

Well, Mellis left about 7 years ago. We have absolutely nothing to do with the old administration anymore.

e621 is the ship of Theseus of furry porn archives

NotMeNotYou said:
Well, Mellis left about 7 years ago. We have absolutely nothing to do with the old administration anymore.

My favorite part is knowing that I just summarized the history here 3 days ago, literally, with links to the relevant forum posts that go into more detail.

For reals. All the admins left with Arcturus when the site's ownership was transferred to Varka. Bringing up the rage of mellis as if it had any relevance to the current administration would be like blaming Obama for actions taken during the Nixon presidency.

ikdind said:
My favorite part is knowing that I just summarized the history here 3 days ago, literally, with links to the relevant forum posts that go into more detail.

For reals. All the admins left with Arcturus when the site's ownership was transferred to Varka. Bringing up the rage of mellis as if it had any relevance to the current administration would be like blaming Obama for actions taken during the Nixon presidency.

there's a reagan joke i could make there, but you're right, a lot of people who had an argument like that lost it years ago when the reason for it left.

ikdind said:
My favorite part is knowing that I just summarized the history here 3 days ago, literally, with links to the relevant forum posts that go into more detail.

For reals. All the admins left with Arcturus when the site's ownership was transferred to Varka. Bringing up the rage of mellis as if it had any relevance to the current administration would be like blaming Obama for actions taken during the Nixon presidency.

"Neutral records aren't the same "
"I had 3 temp ban records removed that Mellis dropped on me."

and it was known as the "rage of mellis"

I don't read every post. I didn't post once in this thread before you summarized it. I read some of the first 2 pages and some of the last page.

I only mentioned Mellis because somebody asked why I'm complaining about neutrals, when I'm not.

Forgive me for the major sin of not knowing the full history of a site I occasionally visit because if I try to get into the community I get shit on, warned, banned, etc. I guarantee if I still did any sort of major communications here I would get banned again. It's not because I'm a bad person but because my filter isn't tight enough to withstand a nuclear fallout like you seem to need in order to talk here.

The only fucking thing I even knew about Mellis is that he would ban for "shark week" and he's not here anymore.

(yes that accusation that I'm raging is actually making me kind of mad)

PhrozenFox said:
Forgive me for the major sin of not knowing the full history of a site I occasionally visit because if I try to get into the community I get shit on, warned, banned, etc. I guarantee if I still did any sort of major communications here I would get banned again. It's not because I'm a bad person but because my filter isn't tight enough to withstand a nuclear fallout like you seem to need in order to talk here.

You don't need to know the history but you should at least try to stay up-to-date. For example, I don't know who the flying fuck is Mellis and I couldn't care less about that person, but I do know who's on the current administration, and he ain't one of them. Also, if I can talk here, you can too. Just don't be an asshole and you'll be fine here. It's not that hard.

Waba said:
You don't need to know the history but you should at least try to stay up-to-date. For example, I don't know who the flying fuck is Mellis and I couldn't care less about that person, but I do know who's on the current administration, and he ain't one of them. Also, if I can talk here, you can too. Just don't be an asshole and you'll be fine here. It's not that hard.

Trust me, it is apparently very difficult. Being an asshole includes criticism for the most part. That isn't just here though. Criticizing anything anywhere is a great way to make unintelligent people hate you for presuming to know better.

None of this is about mellis. Somebody asked a question and I gave an answer. I could have not mentioned mellis for a much different result but I included all known information. Forget mellis even existed because it has nothing to do with what I'm saying. Mellis mellis mellis mellis. Are we done with mellis now? mellis.

PhrozenFox said:
None of this is about mellis. Somebody asked a question and I gave an answer. I could have not mentioned mellis for a much different result but I included all known information. Forget mellis even existed because it has nothing to do with what I'm saying. Mellis mellis mellis mellis. Are we done with mellis now? mellis.

I mean, you edited the post to call it unimportant info, but name-dropping mellis does a lot to color the circumstances of those records in your favor. If those temp bans had been under the current site admins, I would probably think they were roundly deserved.

mellis is definitely important information. It's just a fairly long time to hold a grudge against a site, and for as powerful as that grudge must be, it wasn't my first thought that you may have missed the whole thing where everyone from the previous admins stepped down and a whole new group took over.

NotMeNotYou said:
Greetings!

This time we have a rather large rule change to announce: Going forward any pay content¹ will be permanently DNP without exception².
The 2 year rule has been a relic since the site's original founding back in '07, and was mainly justified to provide an option to have content from art CDs available beyond their original sales windows. CDs age, get damaged or lost, and are only available in very small production runs so it was kind of understandable, if a bit dick move, to provide a mirror so that content could be kept available for everyone once those CDs are no longer being sold.
However, since then we have seen the advent of widespread broadband, cloud storage, cheap website hosting, Patreon and subscription based pages and a sharp decline in the sale of furry artwork on a physical medium.
If artists are selling something in recent times it's almost always done through a service that is for far longer available than manually burned CDs, and usually not limited to a specific amount of sales either. All of this means our rule is causing problems to artists trying to earn money off of their hard work.
As the largest furry archive basically every furry knows of us and most people know how to search for things. By us hosting paid content, even if it's just slightly older one, we directly cut into people's ability to earn money.

With all this in mind this change is most likely going to upset a lot of people, and it won't prevent piracy either, but we still feel it is the right thing to do.

To keep consistent with this change we have purged all old paid content we could find. If you know of any paid content still lingering then please report it so we can delete it as well. If we have accidentally deleted things that are freely available then please report those as well so we can restore them. If your uploading limit has been drastically affected by this, let us know and we will fix it as well.

If you have any questions feel free to ask them below.

Beyond that, I will be going through the DNP list and fixing entries up as required. Since the paid content is now universally DNP a bunch of conditional DNP statuses are no longer needed.

_{¹ - "Pay content" is used to describe all pay-to-view and commercial works where either an admission fee, subscription fee, or a copy has to be purchased in order to view it. This goes for both physical and digital products / works.}

_{² - Obviously if any content has been released for free later it will stop being DNP from that moment forward.}

In my personal opinion, I believe this to be a hasty decision, due to severe lack of reasoning behind it. Mostly because there isn't really any reason to do this.

Take Palcomix for example, they use a considerable amount of copyrighted characters and draw them into nudity and sex and sell that content on paid access only web sites. Technically they should be shut down for copyright violations. Even though they are violating the law and essentially theft, you will hold DNP. There is a massive amount of work that uses existing characters. Take those patreon types for another example. They pay for "art" (Porn) and get it ahead of time by say a few months? but those who don't pay up have to wait. Technically this is also paid content and covered under your hastily thought up DNP rules.

What I see here is a half assed attempt to please one or two people screaming about them not making money by being lazy and not having a real job. I'm ok with artists having tip jars or placing advertisements, but a lot of them are trying to make this a sole income job and it just doesn't work.

For example, 19 years ago I worked for a few production companies that were hired by Disney... you know, big shots in the animation industry. The work we did was heavy loads of page cells, animation rendering and it was time consuming. It took a group of 10, to push out 10 minutes of polished animation per week at the quality they wanted and they paid absolutely shit for it. Went bankrupt within 5 months.
It's a business that doesn't exist for a reason.

Lot of these artists are always coming up emergency rent money needed excuses for getting the dull and stupid to fork up some cash to get new fap material. I actually met a few people like this in real life, although they were unaware I am BDOTH and these lying sacks of crap are regular working people who just want an expensive luxury item or a welfare rat communist who bitches about social justice and feefees all day while snorting down twinkies by the truck load and that bit of drawing they do isn't even registered income so it's not legit on the books.

I gave up the artist life to do it for a living with a company and still failed. Not because my shit sucked, it's because there is no money in it. I woke up to the reality that I needed to get out of fantasy land and into a real job. You know what? Now I'm part of the 1%, owning a business with several properties and none of it even comes close to anything artistic. Unless you think my Tractor sexy... Sorry.

Bottom line, you aren't doing jack squat to help "artists". You are just feeding the delusion that they can be successful at drawing porn if it weren't for all the leaked pay content.

I got a lot more to say on this, but it is also my opinion that some feeling of butt hurt will cloud the understanding of my logic on this.

Now if you don't mind, I have a fat stack of checks to sign for payroll. Most of the people here are raking in enough cash in one week to equal what most porn artists make in a year and all they have to do is get muddy and change parts 3 days a week. Yes I do have people to do payroll, or at least one person and she is out sick because it's that time of the year for the scratchy coughs. But after this I'm going to spend more money, on cool shit. I've had my eye on an upgrade exhaust for my Skyline R34 and new rims for my BMW M2 while you all wonder if you can afford food next week.

Wow it's amazing how many people on this site can write so many words even though they clearly can't read.

BDOTH said:
blah blah I want free porns blah blah I know more than you blah blah you're stupid, I'm smart blah blah I'm better than everyone here blah blah

How much time did you spend typing that out that tomfoolery?

BDOTH said:
Now if you don't mind, I have a fat stack of checks to sign for payroll. Most of the people here are raking in enough cash in one week to equal what most porn artists make in a year and all they have to do is get muddy and change parts 3 days a week. Yes I do have people to do payroll, or at least one person and she is out sick because it's that time of the year for the scratchy coughs. But after this I'm going to spend more money, on cool shit. I've had my eye on an upgrade exhaust for my Skyline R34 and new rims for my BMW M2 while you all wonder if you can afford food next week.

If you're as rich as you claim to be then this rule change shouldn't affect you at all since you can just pay for all the paywalled art you desire.

So what are you even raging about?

Wow. I have been rendered speechless by this man who's so manly and clearly superior to me in every way. I am ashamed to exist when this sparkling example of virile maleness stands before me. My life is a lie and a shame. All this time, if I had only known the truth...

Waba said:
How much time did you spend typing that out that tomfoolery?

My favorite part is where he whines about "welfare rat communists", yet at the same time is mad about no longer getting paid art for free

Narcissism is bad, m'kay?

Serious question: Is there really any value in keeping this thread unlocked? I think pretty much everything that can be said has been said, and each part has been repeated at least a couple of times.

And for the record no I don't consider the amusement value of self-entitled twits ranting sufficient reason to keep the thread open, though of course as a not-staffer my consideration doesn't really carry any particular weight. :P

So this means things like basically everyone Zone-Sama makes will be removed too, right? All of the flashes and most pornographic pictures they made are behind the Hentaikey paygate.

Sure they're probably pretty popular posts but hey, they're paid content. And that's the important part, right?

BDOTH said:
But after this I'm going to spend more money, on cool shit. I've had my eye on an upgrade exhaust for my Skyline R34 and new rims for my BMW M2 while you all wonder if you can afford food next week.

Ha-ha! Capitalism.

imagoober said:
Serious question: Is there really any value in keeping this thread unlocked? I think pretty much everything that can be said has been said, and each part has been repeated at least a couple of times.

Also, I agree. I basically only check in on this topic to look at the funny drama.

tom641 said:
So this means things like basically everyone Zone-Sama makes will be removed too, right? All of the flashes and most pornographic pictures they made are behind the Hentaikey paygate.

Sure they're probably pretty popular posts but hey, they're paid content. And that's the important part, right?

The important part is the artist's ability to dispense their art (or withhold their art) in the manner they see fit. That's seriously important socially, and also legally. E621 will have a better relationship with artists if we don't actively disrespect the rules they set.

The relevance of popularity here seems to be approximately 0. Well, the admins seem to have their heads screwed on straight, that's good.

savageorange said:
Well, the admins seem to have their heads screwed on straight, that's good.

Nah, they have their heads screwed on wrong, it’s just that we have ours screwed on wrong too, making it look right. We’re all mad on e6.

Really at the end of the day, artists could always have their art pulled from the site if they didn't like it being on here. Pulling it pre-emptively helps no one. No one is going to go straight to legal action before just contacting the site. And the main line of support it's getting is people excited to call other people entitled for saying something is bad about their favorite site.

I think the best thing to do if you don't like the change is to report as many tags and images, especially popular ones, by pointing out paid images that "fell through the cracks" of this change. Not false reporting, just be very aggressive with pointing them out. If they don't change then you'll know that it's time to look for a new site, and if it does then the mods have the full blame for ripping good stuff from the site.

Bonus points if it's either on another easily accessible site, or you download and re-upload it on other sites. Basically hand them the rope to hang themselves and let them go to work. Just don't be shocked if you're suddenly banned by the mods for "false reporting" if they realize they've fucked up. And they'll probably restore a bunch of the images under that same pretense.

tom641 said:
Really at the end of the day, artists could always have their art pulled from the site if they didn't like it being on here. Pulling it pre-emptively helps no one. No one is going to go straight to legal action before just contacting the site. And the main line of support it's getting is people excited to call other people entitled for saying something is bad about their favorite site.

I think the best thing to do if you don't like the change is to report as many tags and images, especially popular ones, by pointing out paid images that "fell through the cracks" of this change. Not false reporting, just be very aggressive with pointing them out. If they don't change then you'll know that it's time to look for a new site, and if it does then the mods have the full blame for ripping good stuff from the site.

Bonus points if it's either on another easily accessible site, or you download and re-upload it on other sites. Basically hand them the rope to hang themselves and let them go to work. Just don't be shocked if you're suddenly banned by the mods for "false reporting" if they realize they've fucked up. And they'll probably restore a bunch of the images under that same pretense.

We verify all tickets and flags manually. That will accomplish nothing except do exactly what we'd like people to do.