Yveltallover said:
I'm fixing them, but there's too much!

You've added the gay tag to less than ten posts, so there's evidently not that many.
If you're looking for gay content lacking the necessary tags, try https://e621.net/post/index/1/%20male%20-female%20-male%25-2Fmale%20sex%20-bisexual%20-intersex%20-male%25-2Ffemale%20-ambiguous_gender

Peekaboo said:
You've added the gay tag to less than ten posts, so there's evidently not that many.
If you're looking for gay content lacking the necessary tags, try https://e621.net/post/index/1/%20male%20-female%20-male%25-2Fmale%20sex%20-bisexual%20-intersex%20-male%25-2Ffemale%20-ambiguous_gender

I don't have time, you sly spy.
Also it's more about removing tags, than adding them.

I have basic account, so I can't search with that many tags.

Does this post count as male/male?
ID: 613922

Yveltallover said:
I don't have time, you sly spy.
Also it's more about removing tags, than adding them.

Apart from adding the gay tag 3½ times, you haven't removed the tag once either, so you must have done that tagging on an alternative account.

Since your priority is removing the tag, simple going through the gay tag, with added tags of your choice, would make it fairly easy to remove invalid uses of the male/male tag.

Edit:

Yveltallover said:
Does this post count as male/male?
ID: 613922

No.

Double edit': Along with that, you probably should read up on some on the rules before tagging. You removed the male/male tag from post #613312 - which is male/male.
If you need help after reading the rules ya can always send me or another user a PM.

Yveltallover said:
Does this post count as male/male?
ID: 613922

Yes it does. Cuddling counts as part of mating behavior. So do things like dating, couples, kissing, holding hands, etc. And the gender/gender tags are for images with sex and/or mating behavior between those two genders. That way searches for male/male kissing or male/male cuddling or male/male hand_holding or male/male couple etc will work properly and people are able to find/blacklist pairings that they do/don't want to see.

Though Peekaboo is correct that post #613312 should keep the male/male tag, since disembodied penises count as a male character.

Peekaboo said:
Apart from adding the gay tag 3½ times, you haven't removed the tag once either, so you must have done that tagging on an alternative account.

Since your priority is removing the tag, simple going through the gay tag, with added tags of your choice, would make it fairly easy to remove invalid uses of the male/male tag.

Edit: No.

Double edit': Along with that, you probably should read up some on the rules before tagging. You removed the male/male tag from post #613312 - which is male/male.
If you need help after reading the rules ya can always send me or another user a PM.

"Tag what you see"
I can see on that picture desemodied penis, which could belong to anyone, but it's not shown that it belongs to a male.

I read how to tag few times, and there's still much to be explained.

This post is NOT a Male/male, right?
https://e621.net/post/show/612464

furrypickle said:
Yes it does. Cuddling counts as part of mating behavior. So do things like dating, couples, kissing, holding hands, etc. And the gender/gender tags are for images with sex and/or mating behavior between those two genders.

I opened Yveltallovers avatar image to quickly switch it's post number with 613922 in order to see what image he was talking about.
>Tabbed out
>Returned
>Never pressed enter

Clearly I am the silliest sausage!
lol, but yeah, that image should be tagged as gay.

furrypickle said:
Yes it does. Cuddling counts as part of mating behavior. So do things like dating, couples, kissing, holding hands, etc. And the gender/gender tags are for images with sex and/or mating behavior between those two genders.

Though Peekaboo is correct that post #613312 should keep the male/male tag, since disembodied penises count as a male character.

What other things (that are not 100% obvious) count as male or female?

Peekaboo said:
I opened Yveltallovers avatar image to quickly switch it's post number with 613922 in order to see what image he was talking about.
>Tabbed out
>Returned
>Never pressed enter

Clearly I am the silliest sausage!
lol, but yeah, that image should be tagged as gay.

You !@$%%&*!!!

Yveltallover said:
What other things (that are not 100% obvious) count as male or female?

Completely understandable question. There's a few things that we assume is the simplest possible option in order to keep searchability consistent and simplified.

• So if a character looks male but you can't see their genitals because they're clothed or out of view, we'll still tag it as male even though other options are technically possible and can't be completely ruled out. Same goes for female, even if technically they might be intersex but can't tell from this picture, if everything that you can see qualifies as the female tag then that's what it gets tagged as. ambiguous_gender gets tagged when there's mixed gender information, or you really can't tell one way or the other, or because they're androgynous enough that it really could be interpreted as more than one gender direction.

• If a character has a penis and breasts, we tag it as dickgirl even if it's possible that it might be a herm. We do it that way because the herm tag only gets used if you can actually see that there's a pussy there as well, and if the pussy isn't visible then we assume it's just a dickgirl.

• Tentacles don't count as a character unless you can see them coming directly off of a creature's body (like an octopus counts as a character and gets a gender tag. But tentacles coming from off screen do not count as a character and don't get gendered.) However, if the tentacles are performing sexual actions, stimulation, bodily fluids, etc then they can still be tagged as having sex, even though they don't count as a true character.

• Disembodied penises count as a character and are assumed to be male to keep things simple and consistent for searches. Disembodied vaginas are really rare, but they would be assumed to be female and treated the same way.

• Goo creatures count as characters if there's a face or other body characteristics. But if it's just a featureless blob then it doesn't count as anything. Note: both tentacles and goo blobs can sometimes be tagging headaches and can be confusing to even the best of taggers.

• Dildos and sex toys won't count as characters and aren't used for any of the pairing gender/gender tags. A male anally masturbating does not count as male/male, but is commonly confused that way.

• pegging is for male/female only. It's unusual that way and is only used for when a female is using a strap-on in a male's anus. If some other gender is using a strapon on a male's ass, then it gets tagged with strapon and anal_insertion and the pairing gender/gender tag for whichever gender combination, but it does not get the pegging tag.

So there's a few rules of thumb that have been hammered out to answer difficult tagging questions over the years. They're not the most obvious when you're getting into tagging at first, but they were often the most pragmatic solution to what would otherwise be a difficult tagging situation. I might have missed one, but those are most of the main ones that come up. If you ever have a question about something, you can ask either on the forums or by Dmailing someone who does a lot of tagging and has been helpful about it in the past. Even the best of us have had to ask about a tag at one point or another. There's just a lot of tricky situations to tag.

Yveltallover said:
You !@$%%&*!!!

That had better have been meant as a teasing joke. We have a rule about maintaining a certain level of civility towards other users, where pointed insults and personal attacks are not allowed. So take this as a warning: that if you're meaning to tease somebody, make it more clear that it's a harmless joke and make it less attack-y. If I see you making a response to someone like that again, I will be giving you a record for insultingly attacking another user. So just be more careful about that in the future.

Yveltallover said:
"Tag what you see"
I can see on that picture desemodied penis, which could belong to anyone, but it's not shown that it belongs to a male.

All we see is a penis. Since there's absolutely nothing implying that it's not a male, it's tagged as male.

Same principle as most poking_out images: those could potentially be maleherms, but there's not enough visual data to tag them as anything except males.

I almost doesn't matter what you put anymore, the best thing you can do is add and subtract extactly what you're looking for. The only thing I can think of that still most likely wouldn't work is tagging something gay if.. someone that is gay would look at it, otherwise you might as well just put in under search if your looking for gay is -female -breasts -pussy -herm and etc... whatever you don't want or want. Sure its a pain but this is why we all are complaining, I don't like MLP but I still have to see it all but even I find a decent once in a while when its not a cartoony verson of it but most of the time I just ignore it.

furrypickle said:

• Tentacles don't count as a character unless you can see them coming directly off of a creature's body (like an octopus counts as a character and gets a gender tag. But tentacles coming from off screen do not count as a character and don't get gendered.) However, if the tentacles are performing sexual actions, stimulation, bodily fluids, etc then they can still be tagged as having sex, even though they don't count as a true character.

Tentacles do count as true character (partially visible character), however the only thing we can say about this character is that it has tentacles.

• Disembodied penises count as a character and are assumed to be male to keep things simple and consistent for searches. Disembodied vaginas are really rare, but they would be assumed to be female and treated the same way.

Same as tentacles, when you see a disembodied penis, you see a partially visible character. And you tag this character same as any other character based on what you see. If you only see penis, then the only thing you can say about this character is that it has a penis and that it's most likely male.

• Goo creatures count as characters if there's a face or other body characteristics. But if it's just a featureless blob then it doesn't count as anything. Note: both tentacles and goo blobs can sometimes be tagging headaches and can be confusing to even the best of taggers.

In my opinion, goo creatures also count as characters even if they don't have any facial characteristics. Anything with a will of its own is a character. However there's not much we can usually tell about a goo creature. Other than the fact that it's made of goo and that it can change shape. And that it probably has goo tentacles.

Delian said:
Tentacles do count as true character (partially visible character), however the only thing we can say about this character is that it has tentacles.

For tagging purposes they do not. If there is just a character being raped with tentacles you would still tag with solo. If the picture is just tentacles, it gets tagged with zero_pictured. If a character is being tentacle raped by an squid, it gets duo.

Same as tentacles, when you see a disembodied penis, you see a partially visible character. And you tag this character same as any other character based on what you see. If you only see penis, then the only thing you can say about this character is that it has a penis and that it's most likely male.

Disembodied penises always count as a male character because it's the only way we've managed to tag them consistently. If there's a character having sex with a disembodied penis, it gets tagged duo. If that character is also male, it gets male/male as well, or male/dickgirl if the character is dickgirl.

That being said, I wonder why disembodied herm combos are so ridiculously rare (I've see maybe 2 on here ever, and 1 was a model sheet).

In my opinion, goo creatures also count as characters even if they don't have any facial characteristics. Anything with a will of its own is a character. However there's not much we can usually tell about a goo creature. Other than the fact that it's made of goo and that it can change shape. And that it probably has goo tentacles.

I don't deal with goo-based entities enough to make a judgement here. I've seen some both ways, and it kind of gets confusing with absorption vore. That's about all I can say.

That's inconsistent then. Either the partially visible character counts as a character, or it doesn't.

A character being raped by disembodied tentacles is the same as a character being raped by disembodied_penises. You've seen furry characters that have tentacles.

It's illogical that one would be solo, but the other one would not be.

Delian said:
That's inconsistent then. Either the partially visible character counts as a character, or it doesn't.

Considering this in terms of conditional probability : P(character with X|X is pictured), this doesn't seem to be a problem -- P(character with penis|penis is pictured) seems like it has to be much higher than P(character with tentacles|tentacles are pictured) -- there just aren't that many tentacled characters vs penised characters, so we take the most likely option : tentacles are just random tentacles and don't belong to a character, penises aren't and do.

All of the specific examples parasprite gives match with this.

Delian said:
That's inconsistent then. Either the partially visible character counts as a character, or it doesn't.

A character being raped by disembodied tentacles is the same as a character being raped by disembodied_penises. You've seen furry characters that have tentacles.

It's illogical that one would be solo, but the other one would not be.

solo_focus

Well, that's true. We're tagging based on "what most users would percieve this as".

However, I find it extremely questionable what most users percieve tentacles as.

I would suggest making a poll:

Q: When you see tentacles coming from off-screen in an image, do you think there exists a creature that's controlling them?
- A) Yes, tentacles are a body part that's most likely part of a hidden (off screen) monster character.
- B) No, tentacles are a natural non-character occurance, like wind.

So if the majority of answers would be A, then I'm correct and tentacles do count as a character. And in case of B, tentacles don't count as a character and things should stay as they are.

There's just too many problems with tagging disembodied tentacles as characters.

Single disembodied penis counts as a single character. That's pretty simple. But how about dozen tentacles assaulting a single character? Would that be a group or duo?

And what about metallic tentacles? Are those characters or just machines?

It's easier to not count them.

Genjar said:
Single disembodied penis counts as a single character. That's pretty simple. But how about dozen tentacles assaulting a single character? Would that be a group or duo?

That would be duo. Since we tag based on "what most users would percieve this as", most users would percieve a group of tentacles a part of a single tentacle wielding character. No need to count tentacles.

And what about metallic tentacles? Are those characters or just machines?

Robotic characters are nothing unusual. Either it's a robotic character, or a machine operator. It's most likely one character. Same goes for magic users. If a magic user creates, let's say, water tentacles, then tentacles are a body part of this magic user because he controls them.

As you can see, it's a simple thing so I don't understand why you think it's problematic to tag tentacles. Is there anything else that you find problematic or controversial?

Delian said:
Well, that's true. We're tagging based on "what most users would percieve this as".

However, I find it extremely questionable what most users percieve tentacles as.

Perception is just one way of looking at it, but it's mostly done both so that we have simple way to categorize them that leaves as little room for alternate interpretations as possible.

I'll put it this way, we have random tentacles coming out of nowhere...

• How many characters do they belong to?
• Do we just treat them as one character? What if they are coming from different directions, or are a completely different color/shape?
• Do we just add group whenever we see more than 2 tentacles?
• Would we even benefit from tagging them with group?
• What gender are they?
• Do we just assume ambiguous_gender unless they're penis_tentacles?
• What if they are squirting cum but don't look like penises?
• Do we tag them as feral? Would that interfere with searching?
• What about mechanical tentacles?

But most importantly, would we actually gain anything by making these changes? Does the huge solo/duo retagging project that it would need benefit searching or tagging efforts? Was there any issues with it to begin with?

parasprite said:
What if they are coming from different directions, or are a completely different color/shape?

Still only one character.

What gender are they?

They're ambiguous_gender even if they're squirting cum and they're penis_tentacles.
People who search for male female should not find images containing tentacles and a female character.

Do we tag them as feral?

Feral tag is used for animal characters. Tentacle monsters aren't animals.

The others parts I have already answered in my previous post.

But most importantly, would we actually gain anything by making these changes? Does the huge solo/duo retagging project that it would need benefit searching or tagging efforts? Was there any issues with it to begin with?

Yes. We would get rid of all the confusion and exceptions regarding tentacles. In other words, the issue is the inconsistency and the benefit is consistency.
Whether this is worth the effort.. who am I to say. I'm simply pointing out the problem in the model.

Hmm, when I search through the images, a lot of them (eg. post #612334, post #600945, post #597081) are already tagged correctly. Which means users are currently confused.

you made a gay choice faggot, prepare to die

*edit- Be triggered

Apologies about posting to this old thread,
but seemed to be the most appropriate for this question.

Noticed there are 58 posts tagged with solo, male/male AND dildo
male/male solo dildo

Is the appropriate course of action (for SOME of them)
to replace male/male with male_penetrated (if appropriate ).

(12 uploads tagged with male_penetrated.
Noticed 3 uploads tagged with male_being_penetrated ... change to male_penetrated ?)

ListerTheSquirrel said:
Noticed there are 58 posts tagged with solo, male/male AND dildo
male/male solo dildo

Note that a lot of those are multi-images and should have all three tags. I'd recommend adjusting the search to male/male solo dildo -multiple_images -comic -opencanvas. Personally, I'd also throw in -multiple_scenes, but the tag search limit gets in the way.

Also, these types of questions are fine in forum #191799, Advanced Tag/Wiki Discussion.

Is the appropriate course of action (for SOME of them)
to replace male/male with male_penetrated (if appropriate ).

Using dildos for masturbation is tagged as toying_self. I suppose male_penetrated could also apply, but I doubt that it'll ever be tagged to the level where it'd actually be useful. Unless someone goes on a mass-tagging spree and tags it for the 100000+ posts that need it.

Genjar said:
Using dildos for masturbation is tagged as toying_self. I suppose male_penetrated could also apply, but I doubt that it'll ever be tagged to the level where it'd actually be useful. Unless someone goes on a mass-tagging spree and tags it for the 100000+ posts that need it.

Is male_penetrated a valid tag? Not saying ima tag all of them but I'll add it if it applies to a post I'm tagging.

MyNameIsOver20charac said:
Is male_penetrated a valid tag? Not saying ima tag all of them but I'll add it if it applies to a post I'm tagging.

Can't vouch for the validity, but those do seem like a good pair for the <gender>_penetrating (male_penetrating, etc) tags and would be useful in combo searches. Using those would also solve some persistent 'how do I search for <x>' type of problems.

So I'd say that they've valid enough, certainly better than making hundreds of <x>_penetrating_<y> tags.

Edit: Did a quick test run. These do seem largely redundant with the m/m and such, especially when combined with anal_penetration, etc. It does make some things searchable that weren't without these, but it's a lot of effort for a small benefit, maybe not worth it.

Genjar said:
Can't vouch for the validity, but those do seem like a good pair for the <gender>_penetrating (male_penetrating, etc) tags and would be useful in combo searches. Using those would also solve some persistent 'how do I search for <x>' type of problems.

So I'd say that they've valid enough, certainly better than making hundreds of <x>_penetrating_<y> tags.

Sounds good, worst case they can easily be invalidated, I'll start tagging them.

Genjar said:

Edit: Did a quick test run. These do seem largely redundant with the m/m and such, especially when combined with anal_penetration, etc. It does make some things searchable that weren't without these, but it's a lot of effort for a small benefit, maybe not worth it.

Hmm, male_penetrated could group a bunch of "gay" things: pegging, buttfingering, buttsecks, toys etc. Herm/female_penetrating could sort out who is being penetrated in herm/female group sex, something I'd oherwise consider difficult. I'd say they can be useful.

Edit: Actually you're right, second could be solved with the [gender]/[gender] tags. Could be useful for blacklisting though. Imagine for example a hardcore femdom fan who just does not want to see females penetrated. Or as mentioned above, people who are not "gay".

MyNameIsOver20charac said:
Hmm, male_penetrated could group a bunch of "gay" things: pegging, buttfingering, buttsecks, toys etc. Herm/female_penetrating could sort out who is being penetrated in herm/female group sex, something I'd oherwise consider difficult. I'd say they can be useful.

Edit: Actually you're right, second could be solved with the [gender]/[gender] tags. Could be useful for blacklisting though. Imagine for example a hardcore femdom fan who just does not want to see females penetrated. Or as mentioned above, people who are not "gay".

So, do you think it would be useful?

Genjar said:
...
Using dildos for masturbation is tagged as toying_self. I suppose male_penetrated could also apply, but I doubt that it'll ever be tagged to the level where it'd actually be useful. Unless someone goes on a mass-tagging spree and tags it for the 100000+ posts that need it.

(a few minutes ago) I wandered across another relevant tag (re a male toying themself):
anal_masturbation (wiki page says "A character masturbating by sexually stimulating their own anus, whether through anal fingering or with a sex toy.").

MyNameIsOver20charac said:
So, do you think it would be useful?

I think it will useful for those who have posted to the forum about not wanting to see any male(s) being penetrated.
(I personally, like male_penetrated art)

ListerTheSquirrel said:

I think it will useful for those who have posted to the forum about not wanting to see any male(s) being penetrated.
(I personally, like male_penetrated art)

Same. But I'll keep adding them then!