Posted under Tag Alias and Implication Suggestions
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Wodahseht said:
Can't have the penis/vagina implications because it's possible to see though clothing the signs of what's there without it being clear enough to be tagged directly (cameltoe for instance).
And bulge, and penis outline, and cases where you can't see their dick but can see their balls.
Updated by anonymous
Where it breaks down if you try to use both of those tags at once for each one is that it breaks the link of each tag being a single observation. Like if you try to clear up Xmorph's ambiguous meaning by adding Xgenital separately, that already only works if it's a solo pic. Gender is one of those tags that has to fit into a single tag for each instance to have any usable meaning. You have to find a way to jam everything you need to know into a single word, or at least a single tag. Those don't do it. We need something that has all of the information.
Updated by anonymous
Key point. The genital focused nomenclature of the current tagging schema is what a large part of the problem is.
Nonbinary, trans and (im sure a lot of) cis artists as well dont want characters boiled down to just their genitals.
This isnt a porn site its an archive that hosts primarily furry artwork and happens to also host adult oriented imagery. This site can only exist because artists are kept happy.
I dont think it needs to be discussed for the 70th time over 36 pages that there is an issue with the existing vulgar tags. Or what those issues are.
Andromorph is meant to imply, in tandem with our current schema of including intersex as an implication, that the character in question is "Male bodied" but not exactly in possession of a penis or scrotum. Likewise for gynomorph on the opposite side. Notwithstanding eunuch nullo or featureless_crotch.
Doubly in the case of castration/cbt art in the more extreme senses tagging dickgirl becomes incongruous and even a little inconvenient when that penis is about to be or in the process of being removed. Not so the case with gynomorph.
TL;DR
You dont NEED to mash the genitals in the name. The intersex parent tag does that explanation for you.
Updated by anonymous
Wodahseht said:
In my experience, unless pointing out personal opinion, admins don't give direct guidelines out without a consensus at their level that something needs to be handled a particular way. This thread has (mostly) been self-moderating fairly well so it's probable they've chosen to let it develop without interference. It's also possible that there isn't a consensus at their level yet.
You may be right, but on the 35 pages discussion, you see it needs a framework, especially as the argument comes with blacklist and search conflict. If it were going on and in a few other things, a pair of framework conditions, which prescribes the software and the rules, then one can safely say that and that is technically problematic. So far, we can only rely on different opinions from different users (on one and the same thing), what you have to admit, does not make much sense.
Du magst recht haben, doch an den 35 Seiten Diskussion, siehst du doch das es einen Rahmen braucht, zumal immer wieder das Argument mit Blacklist und Suche Konflikt kommt. Wenn es dahingehend und in ein paar anderen dingen, ein Paar Rahmen Bedingungen, welche die Software und die Regeln vorschreibt gibt, dann kann man gesichert sagen, das und das ist Technisch problematisch. Bisher können wir uns nur auf verschiedene Meinungen verschiedener User verlassen (zu ein und der selben Sache), was wie du zugeben musst, nicht sehr viel sinn macht.
Wodahseht said:
That said, there's nothing wrong with taking either approach: genital-focus or body-focus. However, a number of people (presumably with personal experience or direct secondhand knowledge) have stated that describing non-binary people using their genitals is something they find offensive. (That was a big part of argument to change away from dickgirl and cuntboy.) So most have been trying to figure out terms that don't directly refer to that as primary descriptor.
Thank you! This is a kind of communication I want to see here. Reasonable arguments, reasonably advanced. Unfortunately, the behavior of the others does not quite comply with it myself. The genital argument I can understand from the point of view. However, I think that it is also a question of the word combination and the choice of words, how much it has a negative effect. Just because of the possible negative aspect of Morph I do not understand why others ignore that completely. It does not have to be so, but even if it is in English a harmless word, in German, a harmless word is an offense, we should not ignore it. My example comes from Germany, does not matter, since it can happen everywhere and we must not forget the effect on non-English speakers.
Danke! Das ist eine Art zu kommunizieren die ich hier sehen will. Vernünftige Argumente, vernünftig vorgetragen. Leider bringt mich das verhalten der anderen dazu es selbst nicht ganz einzuhalten. Das Genital Argument kann ich aus dem Sichtpunkt verstehen. Allerdings denke ich, das es auch eine Frage der Wortkombination und Wortwahl ist, wie sehr es negativ wirkt. Gerade wegen dem Möglichen negativ Aspekt von Morph verstehe ich nicht warum andere das völlig ignorieren. Es muss nicht so sein, doch auch wenn es im Englischen ein Harmloses Wort ist, im Deutschen ist auch ein harmloses Wort eine Beleidigung, das sollten wir nicht ignorieren. Das mein Beispiel aus Deutschland kommt, spielt keine Rolle, da es überall passieren kann und wir die Wirkung auf nicht Englischsprachige nicht vergessen dürfen.
Updated by anonymous
PlüschTiger said:
You may be right, but on the 35 pages discussion, you see it needs a framework, especially as the argument comes with blacklist and search conflict. If it were going on and in a few other things, a pair of framework conditions, which prescribes the software and the rules, then one can safely say that and that is technically problematic. So far, we can only rely on different opinions from different users (on one and the same thing), what you have to admit, does not make much sense.
No, it doesn't. Read the thread, we've already said dozens of times that it'll be an alias, meaning it works with anything and everything that used the old forms of the tags.
Updated by anonymous
You're turning things like you need them. That you me according to what I quoted still scrolling suggested is really a joke.
This with my language which I spoke, has to do with decency, nothing with the language of the Internet site. Even if I could speak your language, the decency would make it necessary to use words I know. Do not hide for others behind the rules of the page.
This with the admins, has nothing to do with me and ignorance, but these are those who can provide answers for a few of the open questions, example alleged conflicts with the often-mentioned search and blacklist. Admins are the true experts of the site, not any users who are experts.
From which country my example is, does not matter, which should only clarify what I mean. In addition, the fact of non-English speaking people is why we should consider the fact at Morph. Even if there are no problems in English, people can feel unaware of the importance of Morph.
Du drehst dir dinge wohl gern wie du sie brauchst. Das du mir nach dem was ich zitiert habe noch Scrollen vorschlägst ist echt ein Witz.
Das mit meiner Sprache was ich ansprach, hat mit Anstand zu tun, nichts mit der Sprache der Internet Seite. Selbst wenn ich deine Sprache könnte, würde der Anstand es gebieten Worte zu benutzen die ich kenne. Verstecke dich nicht für andere hinter den Regeln der Seite.
Das mit den Admins, hat nichts mit mir und Ignoranz zu tun, sondern diese sind diejenigen die für ein paar der offenen Fragen Antworten liefern können, Beispiel angebliche Konflikte mit der oft genannten Suche und Blacklist. Admins sind die wahren experten der Seite, nicht irgendwelche User die sich zu experten machen.
Aus welchem Land mein Beispiel ist, spielt keine Rolle, das es nur verdeutlichen sollte was ich meine. Zudem gerade die Tatsache nicht englisch sprachiger Menschen, ist es warum wir den Fakt bei Morph bedenken sollte. Selbst wenn es bei Englisch sprechenden keine Probleme gibt, können Menschen ohne das wissen über die Bedeutung von Morph sich angegriffen fühlen.
kamimatsu said:
Your Appeal to Popularity won't work here. Popularity does not imply reason.
That is not completely right. Ever heard of swarm intelligence? It can be wrong, of course, but it can be an individual one. Just out of curiosity, how did you think the words were chosen? You decide and everyone else has to accept it? If the majority rejects this, it should be considered, especially since it is actually 22 to 11, since 2 only said yes because there was nothing better. If you are going to ignore election results now, we can leave the choice to you, because according to you the majority opinion is not of concern.
Das ist nicht ganz richtig. Schon mal was von Schwarm Intelligenz gehört? Sie kann natürlich dennoch falsch liegen, doch das kann ein einzelner auch. Nur mal aus Neugier, wie hast du gedacht das die Worte ausgewählt werden? Du entscheidest und alle anderen haben es zu Akzeptieren? Wenn die Mehrheit das ablehnt dann sollte es beachtet werden, zumal es eigentlich 22 zu 11 steht, da 2 nur Ja sagten weil es nichts besseres gab. Wenn du jetzt anfangen tust Wahlergebnisse zu ignorieren, können wir die Wahl dir überlassen, denn laut dir die Mehrheitsmeinung ist nicht von belang.
kamimatsu said:
Cool story bro. I have a family actively trying to drive me to suicide to avoid getting blood on their hands, I actually WAS a victim of Corrective Rape, my cousin almost died because her blood type caused her to be born too early and she weighed 1 pound, my mother has had a miscarriage and wishes it could have been me, and I'm stuck in a house I can't leave because my father is my boss and I can't drive, meaning I can't go anywhere nobody knows me and therefore won't turn me down for a job just because I'm Autistic. And guess what? None of that means a damn thing, because the site doesn't have to change itself just because something happens to trigger me, and it doesn't have to change for you either.
This is the reason why you should best understand my objection to Morph. The page here has nothing to do with it, my mention of what I am experiencing should only make clear that I say what I say not for fun, but because I consider it important. Is that so hard to understand?
Gerade deshalb solltest du am ehesten mein Einwand gegen Morph verstehen. Die Seite hier hat damit auch nichts zu tun, mein erwähnen dessen was ich erlebe soll nur klar machen das ich das was ich sage nicht aus Spaß sage, sondern weil ich es für wichtig halte. Ist das so schwer zu verstehen?
kamimatsu said:
I think your suggestions are even more vague, since they leave it ambiguous whether it's a woman with a dick or a man with a vagina. This causes people to have to use three different tags to search, half of the maximum amount possible.
Thank you first for your opinion. You call my examples vague, certainly they do not say exactly what it is, but do Andromorph and Gynomorph certainly not. The Morph variants are referred by others to the wiki, so this is not an argument. But unlike the two Moph variants, one can see from my examples that it is a gender. Male, Boy, Girl, Female, are understood by almost everyone, even if they do not know Gyno or Andro.
If it is absolutely Andromorph, which is with:
Andromorph_girl / female, Gynomorph_boy / male,
Do not know whether someone has already made the suggestion. That would be more exact. Andromorph = Male form, Girl / female = Female. Since Andromorph stands for the body figure, girl can only stand for the gender. The Morph component unfortunately remains. It says far more than the word Andromorph alone.
If andromorph and gynomorph are not taken, this does not mean that you have to take variants with 3 or 4 words.
Danke erst mal für deine Meinung. Du nennst meine Beispiele Vage, sicher sagen sie nicht genau was es ist, doch das tun Andromorph und Gynomorph schon gar nicht. Bei den Beiden Morph Varianten wird von anderen auf die Wiki verwiesen, daher ist das kein Argument. Aber anders als bei den beiden Moph Varianten, kann man an meinen Beispielen erkennen das es sich um ein geschlecht handelt. Male, Boy, Girl, Female, werden von fast allen verstanden, selbst wenn sie Gyno oder Andro nicht kennen.
Wenn es unbedingt Andromorph sein soll, was ist mit:
Andromorph_girl/female, Gynomorph_boy/male,
Weiß nicht ob schon jemand den Vorschlag gemacht hat. Das wäre noch exakter. Andromorph = Männliche Form, Girl/female = Weiblich. Da Andromorph für die Körperfigur steht, kann Girl nur für das geschlecht stehen. Der Morph Bestandteil bleibt leider. Es sagt aber weit mehr als das Wort Andromorph allein.
Wenn Andromorph und Gynomorph nicht genommen werden heißt das nicht, das man unbedingt Varianten mit 3 oder 4 Worten nehmen muss.
kamimatsu said:
That would make you male. If someone mistagged it, you could change it to male. Nice try, but I'm a male with the skeletal structure of a female and mannerisms stereotypically found in women, and yet I'm still male, not an emaciated dickgirl.
The knowledge is irrelevant to E621. Breasts + penis + testicles = dickgirl. TWYS, so I would call myself, as Dickgirl, if I would upload a picture of myself. What chromosomes I have is negligible. If we remain in the real, is also what you say not quite correct. Just because a man has a vagina, uterus, breasts, and all that belongs to it, it can still be genetically a man.
Das wissen ist auf E621 irrelevant. Brüste + Penis + Hoden = Dickgirl. TWYS, daher müsste ich mich, als Dickgirl bezeichnen, wenn ich ein Bild von mir Hochladen würde. Welche Chromosomen ich habe ist nebensächlich.
Wenn wir in der Realität bleiben, ist auch das was du sagst nicht ganz richtig. Nur weil ein Mensch eine Vagina, Gebärmutter, Brüste und all das was dazu gehört hat, kann es dennoch Genetisch ein Mann sein.
Furrin_Gok said:
No, it doesn't. Read the thread, we've already said dozens of times that it'll be an alias, meaning it works with anything and everything that used the old forms of the tags.
What do you think where I got it from? From parts of the treat that you think I should read. But the fact that it had to be said dozens of times confirms my statement. The Cuntboy and dickgirl at least partial ways continue to work I know. Do I have to explain everything in novels here just because I underline what I say with examples?
Was glaubst du wo ich das her habe? Aus Teilen des treats, den ich deiner Meinung nach lesen soll. Allein die Tatsache das es dutzende male gesagt werden musste, bekräftigt meine Aussage. Das Cuntboy und Dickgirl zumindest Teilweise weiter funktionieren weiß ich. Muss ich hier alles in Romanen erklären nur weil ich das was ich sage mit Beispiele untermauere?
Updated by anonymous
GL, are you trying to imply that the art world would rebel and this site would implode if a tiny fraction of people felt offended by us using the same words just about everyone everywhere uses? Because if you are, I think you've gone straight off the deep end. Especially because, as you just pointed out, the only way those terms have any hope of working is because they already do - if we accept your premise, which I sort of don't - say what genitals there will or won't be. If gynomorph means woman but without female genitals...then what does woman mean? An every-bit-as-offensive implication that feminine features are required for someone to be a woman? T-minus-how-long until someone gets exactly as pissed about that? I get your goal, I really do. But I think focusing the efforts on anecdotal offense is ultimately fruitless, and all we're doing is screwing up a well-accepted tag scheme by trying to pretend we don't know what we're searching by using words we don't know to do it. Clarity all day long for the win. If you're super into sticking with the intersex scheme, leave the generic intersex tag and add on intersex_male and intersex_female, or some new-ish thing like cross_sex_female/male or something to move away from the already real-world-meaning-laden terms. At least then, the only misunderstanding you ever have to overcome is a brief miss on male meaning sexually male and vice versa, rather than a word almost nobody walks in the door knowing.
Updated by anonymous
notnobody said:
GL, are you trying to imply that the art world would rebel and this site would implode if a tiny fraction of people felt offended by us using the same words just about everyone everywhere uses? Because if you are, I think you've gone straight off the deep end. Especially because, as you just pointed out, the only way those terms have any hope of working is because they already do - if we accept your premise, which I sort of don't - say what genitals there will or won't be. If gynomorph means woman but without female genitals...then what does woman mean? An every-bit-as-offensive implication that feminine features are required for someone to be a woman? T-minus-how-long until someone gets exactly as pissed about that? I get your goal, I really do. But I think focusing the efforts on anecdotal offense is ultimately fruitless, and all we're doing is screwing up a well-accepted tag scheme by trying to pretend we don't know what we're searching by using words we don't know to do it. Clarity all day long for the win. If you're super into sticking with the intersex scheme, leave the generic intersex tag and add on intersex_male and intersex_female, or some new-ish thing like cross_sex_female/male or something to move away from the already real-world-meaning-laden terms. At least then, the only misunderstanding you ever have to overcome is a brief miss on male meaning sexually male and vice versa, rather than a word almost nobody walks in the door knowing.
Ahem:
NotMeNotYou said:
Just because it's only about 5% of our users that might have a problem with the current tags doesn't mean we need to rub our dicks all over their faces while yelling how their problem is imagined.
Updated by anonymous
The problem isn't imagined, but that what I said constitutes a dick-face-rub is definitely imagined by you.
Updated by anonymous
You're missing the point so consistently it's clear you're doing it on purpose. Chill out and focus on the topic.
Updated by anonymous
PlüschTiger said:
The knowledge is irrelevant to E621. Breasts + penis + testicles = dickgirl. TWYS, so I would call myself, as Dickgirl, if I would upload a picture of myself. What chromosomes I have is negligible. If we remain in the real, is also what you say not quite correct. Just because a man has a vagina, uterus, breasts, and all that belongs to it, it can still be genetically a man.
You do know breasts aren't a part of the skeleton, right? It's also kind of hard to have them when you're emaciated.
Updated by anonymous
My thoughts on this are as follows.
There is zero reason to include identity politics here. This is primarily a porn site and any new tags should solely serve the purpose of assisting in finding content relevant to the users interests. Adding Identity politics would go against the tried and true "Tag what you see, not what you know/think".
Updated by anonymous
Thyne said:
My thoughts on this are as follows.
There is zero reason to include identity politics here. This is primarily a porn site and any new tags should solely serve the purpose of assisting in finding content relevant to the users interests. Adding Identity politics would go against the tried and true "Tag what you see, not what you know/think".
this topic has absolutely nothing to do with that. we are trying to figure out better terms for "dickgirl" and "cuntboy" since those terms are vulgar and can be offensive and insulting.
Updated by anonymous
kamimatsu said:
You do know breasts aren't a part of the skeleton, right? It's also kind of hard to have them when you're emaciated.
Your argument is not correct. For even a nearly starved child can have a fat belly. Water belly is called that. If someone as a man has large breasts, then the partial remain also when he emaciates. They are guaranteed to be made of real glandular tissues, which have nothing to do with weight. In this case, the man could probably give milk. If you make an argument going you should inform yourself a little about it and go out not only of overweight.
The skeleton is not important because it does not matter in reality if you have a man with a feminine body. The reason is the body can not process the testosterone, therefore, the skeleton is female. If you mean something different please express yourself more clearly. In images on e621 it does not matter, since there are only female or male body forms. By the way, the Coca cola bottle is also gynomorp. She has a female figure (opinion of the media). But a bottle has no gender.
It would be nice, if something meaningful would be contributed. Instead of always just the same, already put back, arguments and to bring me to explain my statements further and if I have done this also still to explain. I have already tried to make clear that my objections were not just made for fun. Morph can be perceived as an attack by some (worldwide). The fact that the favored Morph variants only express the body shape is irrefutable. These are perhaps an alternative to Feminine and Masculine, not for a gender. If the words had no meaning, then you could ignore a few details.
If more, like me, were willing to compromise, and instead of constantly struggling to fight exactly the one of your favored words, you could have contributed many other word ideas. It is also now where I am involved in the discussion is the same, only unimportant things are answered, suggestions ignored.
I would suggest now to come back to the actual topic, instead of always to answer any minor matters.
Dein Argument ist so nicht Richtig. Denn selbst ein fast verhungertes Kind kann einen Dicken bauch haben. Wasser bauch nennt man das. Wenn jemand als Mann Große Brüste hat, dann bleiben die teilweise auch erhalten wenn er abmagert. Garantiert hast du das, wenn sie aus echten Drüsengewebe bestehen, welches mit dem Gewicht nichts zu tun haben. Im dem Fall könnte der Mann wahrscheinlich auch Milch geben. Wenn du Argumente vorbringen willst solltest du dich ein wenig darüber informieren und nicht nur von Übergewicht ausgehen.
Das Skelett ist nicht von Bedeutung, da es in der Realität auch keine Rolle spielt, wenn du einen Mann mit Weiblichen Körper hast. Der Grund ist der Körper kann das Testosteron nicht verarbeiten, daher ist auch das Skelett weiblich. Falls du was anderes meinst drücke dich bitte klarer aus. In Bilder auf e621 ist es auch egal, da es dort lediglich Weibliche oder männliche Körperformen gibt. Übrigens die Coca Cola Flasche ist auch Gynomorp. Sie hat eine weibliche Figur (Meinung der Medien). Eine Flasche hat aber kein geschlecht.
Es wäre schön, wenn hier mal etwas Sinnvolles beigetragen würde. Statt immer wieder nur die selben, bereits wiederlegten, Argumente vorzubringen und mich dazu zu bringen meine Aussagen noch weiter zu erläutern und wenn ich das getan habe diese auch noch zu erläutern. Ich habe bereits versucht klar zu machen das meine Einwände nicht nur aus Spaß gemacht wurden. Morph kann bei einigen als Angreifend empfunden werden (Weltweit). Der Fakt, das die Favorisierten Morph Varianten nur die Körperform aussagen, ist unumstößlich. Diese sind vielleicht eine Alternative zu Feminin und Maskulin, nicht für ein geschlecht. Wenn die Worte keine bereits festgelegte Bedeutung hätten, dann könnte man ein paar Details ignorieren.
Wenn mehr, wie ich, Kompromiss bereit wären und statt ständig darum zu Kämpfen, das genau jenes von euch Favorisierte Wort gewählt wird, hättet ihr viele andere Wort Ideen einbringen können. Es ist auch jetzt wo ich in der Diskussion beteiligt bin das selbe, nur unwichtige dinge werden Beantwortet, Vorschläge ignoriert.
Ich würde vorschlagen jetzt wieder zum eigentlichen Thema zu kommen, statt immer wieder irgendwelche Nebensächliche dinge zu beantworten.
notnobody said:
GL,
GL ???
Updated by anonymous
Thyne said:
My thoughts on this are as follows.
There is zero reason to include identity politics here. This is primarily a porn site and any new tags should solely serve the purpose of assisting in finding content relevant to the users interests. Adding Identity politics would go against the tried and true "Tag what you see, not what you know/think".
This! ^ So so much this! ^ Full STOP!
Plus people seem to be forgetting that (with hentai/furry at least) "dickgirl" and "cuntboy" =/= transgen, trandssex, herm, or anything like it. They literally mean an otherwise normal (non trans/herm) female/male with the ONLY differences being a penis/vegina!
Most of the other terms being thrown around are vague, incorrect a/o totally non descriptive at their very best! And ridiculous to the point of absurdity at worst. (~morph) YOU SHOULDN'T NEED TO USE A DICTIONARY/WIKI TO UNDERSTAND A TAG! Least of all on a PORN/HENTAI site.
This is all so stupid.. If it's not broke, don't fix it! end of story. This isn't even a subject matter (kink) i care about. But it's the principle of it all.. The last thing this site needs is tag hell.
Updated by anonymous
Drkfce0 said:
This! ^ So so much this! ^ Full STOP!Plus people seem to be forgetting that (with hentai/furry at least) "dickgirl" and "cuntboy" =/= transgen, trandssex, herm, or anything like it. They literally mean an otherwise normal (non trans/herm) female/male with the ONLY differences being a penis/vegina!
Most of the other terms being thrown around are vague, incorrect a/o totally non descriptive at their very best! And ridiculous to the point of absurdity at worst. (~morph) YOU SHOULDN'T NEED TO USE A DICTIONARY/WIKI TO UNDERSTAND A TAG! Least of all on a PORN/HENTAI site.
This is all so stupid.. If it's not broke, don't fix it! end of story. This isn't even a subject matter (kink) i care about. But it's the principle of it all.. The last thing this site needs is tag hell.
we have already went far past from the "should this be changed" to "what we should change this. even the lead admin said that cuntboy and dickgirl are vulgar terms and are better if they are changed.
Updated by anonymous
Please. Read the op.
Hi there. So heres whats happened so fsr in case you missed it and want a synopsis.
The Tags have been given a go ahead for a change on the grounds they are vulgar. The issue comes down to clarity and efficiency.
If you are here simply to complain then please leave before you even begin. This is not a discussion about whether or not the tags are an issue but what the best possible alternative tags are. Thank you for your cooperation.
Right now the main goal is to figure out what tags would be best without being vulgar or just causing the same problem we already have.
Some tags have gotten ground,
Andromorph and Gynomorph
Masculine_intersex and feminine_intersex
And variations on "bodytype_with_genitaltype"
If you have nothing to contribute on the matter or are here to complain this is too pc please consider that we have gone 30 pages of people like you complaining and wasting our time and frankly its neither wanted not needed. Further I must remind that there has been admin confirmation that there is an issue with the vulgarity of the tags and that they can be changed. So please refrain if all youre going to be is uncivil and rude or conplainant.
Please get back on topic. This is 36 pages of discussion and I know thats a long read but if youre not willing to read the discussion or even at least the op then please just dont waste our time.
Updated by anonymous
I strongly believe that the tags should be chosen NOT on the grounds of vulgarity/ethics etc, but solely on the grounds of what a casual user would type into the search field and what he would expect as a result.
It also can be handled through aliases of course, but i will cause the unnecessary confusion.
Don't forget, the whole point of tags is helping people find pictures they want. E621 is an image board, not an encyclopedia.
Updated by anonymous
Bozar said:
I strongly believe that the tags should be chosen NOT on the grounds of vulgarity/ethics etc, but solely on the grounds of what a casual user would type into the search field and what he would expect as a result.It also can be handled through aliases of course, but i will cause the unnecessary confusion.
Don't forget, the whole point of tags is helping people find pictures they want. E621 is an image board, not an encyclopedia.
Try reading stuff. Even if we change the tags to "ooga" and "booga", people could still type in a reasonable thing such as "Dickgirl" and "Cuntboy" and get their images. Why? Because that's how aliases work.
Stop complaining about problems with the change that don't exist in the first place.
Updated by anonymous
Furrin_Gok said:
Try reading stuff. Even if we change the tags to "ooga" and "booga", people could still type in a reasonable thing such as "Dickgirl" and "Cuntboy" and get their images. Why? Because that's how aliases work.
Stop complaining about problems with the change that don't exist in the first place.
You didn't even read the second line in my post and then YOU tell me "try reading stuff". It looks funny.
Updated by anonymous
Where the hell do you all come from? There is no functional negative impact to this. Nobody will be confused because the old tags will still work under alias. Most people wont even notice a change. As demonstrated in the thread some people didnt notice when gay was changed to m/m.
Updated by anonymous
GDelscribe said:
Where the hell do you all come from? There is no functional negative impact to this. Nobody will be confused because the old tags will still work under alias. Most people wont even notice a change. As demonstrated in the thread some people didnt notice when gay was changed to m/m.
It's not true. I'll explain what i mean.
When you type gay, in the tag list you still see which tag it was aliased to in one glance. Like gay - male/male. Or heart - <3. And when you open a picture it's obvious what the tags mean.
Now try the same with your suggestions. Gynomorph? What the actual fuck is that? Transgirl is no less terrible too. There is no an even distantly acceptable suggestion in the OP.
Every furry community uses cuntboy, people are familiar with the term. Why you want to make e621 look speshul? It has a lot of it as is.
The whole point of tagging is making searching simpler (and "search" isn't only typing things into the search bar, it's also seeing what tags pictures have, clicking on tags etc).
Really makes me wonder why e621 takes the course on overcomplicating things instead. It's like shooting yourself in the leg.
Updated by anonymous
Bozar said:
It's not true. I'll explain what i mean.
When you type gay, in the tag list you still see which tag it was aliased to in one glance. Like gay - male/male. Or heart - <3. And when you open a picture it's obvious what the tags mean.Now try the same with your suggestions. Gynomorph? What the actual fuck is that? Transgirl is no less terrible too. There is no an even distantly acceptable suggestion in the OP.
Every furry community uses cuntboy, people are familiar with the term. Why you want to make e621 look speshul? It has a lot of it as is.
It isn't about making e621, "special" as you put it. I assume you mean SJW. It's about not using tags that sound like we are calling the character a cunt or a dick.
In fact, cuntboy and dickgirl are not dictionary words. You had no idea what they meant until you got into the furry community and learned. This same learning can be applied for gynomorph and andromorph.
as for
Bozar said
The whole point of tagging is making searching simpler (and "search" isn't only typing things into the search bar, it's also seeing what tags pictures have, clicking on tags etc).
Really makes me wonder why e621 takes the course on overcomplicating things instead. It's like shooting yourself in the leg.
That still works, if we change cuntboy to gynomorph and dickgirl to andromorph, you can still search for cuntboy and dickgirl even after the tags have changed. Nothing over complicated about it.
Updated by anonymous
I didn't mean sjw, and i don't even know how it could be read in that way.
are not dictionary words
<3 is not a dictionary word too. There's A LOT of stuff here that isn't a dictionary word. If it's not urbandictionary, which also has a definition for cuntboy too.
And it is a furry booru, most it's users are furries and people familiar with the community.
Chaser said:
That still works, if we change cuntboy to gynomorph and dickgirl to andromorph, you can still search for cuntboy and dickgirl even after the tags have changed. Nothing over complicated about it.
Did you try to read my post? Please reread it, it is very confusing to try to make a conversation, when you simply ignore the half of what i wrote.
When a person sees "gynomorph" in tags he doesn't understand what the hell it is.
Updated by anonymous
Bozar said:
When a person sees "gynomorph" in tags he doesn't understand what the hell it is.
I didn't know what ahegao meant when I first saw it in the tags list, so I clicked it, read the description, and now I do. Pretty easy. I don't see the problem.
Actually in this case it would be even easier, because you'd see tags like gynomorph/male on a duo image and without even clicking, you'd realize "oh, gynomorph is the gender of the other character in the image", just from context.
Updated by anonymous
GDelscribe said:
Most people wont even notice a change.
That would only be true if aliased tags still appeared on the left-hand list. It's an impact when the word you're expecting to see gets replaced with a very non-obvious alternative. It's like "I keep entering hamburger over and over but the page is broken and it doesn't show up! I'll go post on the forum about the bug.... Oh, they say on the forum that hamburger was changed to beefiferosicus... Why didn't they just say ground beef patty or something else I could've identified when I saw it?..." A lot of users would be likely to read wiki pages for unknown tags if there were only a few tags per image. But when we have dozens, they just get lost in the sea. Male/male is a great example of the right way to do it. It may be longer, but you couldn't ask for a clearer tag. Someone might mean lesbian when they say gay, or eighties-style shitty, or happy, or bright. But nobody's gonna misunderstand an explicit pairing. I couldn't care much less about the vulgarity, but I'm all for dropping domain language in favor of beautiful clarity. Let's just not make the mistake of creating new domain language to replace the old. At least fix the problem if we're going to the trouble in the first place.
Updated by anonymous
I keep seeing the term "slur" I don't think some people understand the difference between reality and fantasy here.. Or the fact that the terms dickgirl/cuntboy are not only ubiquitous throughout the porn world, but aren't even used in the very same context or way in the hentai/furry world.
The only non nonsensically pointless alternative to dickgirl/cuntboy that I can see is penisgirl/veginaboy. They are simple, descriptive and to the point. It's not perfect, but it shouldn't elicit any kind of hysterical shitstorms.
Again though.. If it's not broke, don't fix it!
Bozar said:
It's not true. I'll explain what i mean.
When you type gay, in the tag list you still see which tag it was aliased to in one glance. Like gay - male/male. Or heart - <3. And when you open a picture it's obvious what the tags mean.Now try the same with your suggestions. Gynomorph? What the actual fuck is that? Transgirl is no less terrible too. There is no an even distantly acceptable suggestion in the OP.
Every furry community uses cuntboy, people are familiar with the term. Why you want to make e621 look speshul? It has a lot of it as is.
The whole point of tagging is making searching simpler (and "search" isn't only typing things into the search bar, it's also seeing what tags pictures have, clicking on tags etc).
Really makes me wonder why e621 takes the course on overcomplicating things instead. It's like shooting yourself in the leg.
Yes, but the "feels" of the "entirety" of an exceedingly small subsection of the community...allegedly.
Updated by anonymous
Drkfce0 said:
I keep seeing the term "slur" I don't think some people understand the difference between reality and fantasy here.. Or the fact that the terms dickgirl/cuntboy are not only ubiquitous throughout the porn world, but aren't even used in the very same context or way in the hentai/furry world.The only non nonsensically pointless alternative to dickgirl/cuntboy that I can see is penisgirl/veginaboy. They are simple, descriptive and to the point. It's not perfect, but it shouldn't elicit any kind of hysterical shitstorms.
Again though.. If it's not broke, don't fix it!
It's like people fail to see NotMeNotYou's post
This is a fairly simple fix that won't break anything, while its existence is broken simply because some turds think it's cool to use existing words as insults while kicking an already downed individual. People have actually been bullied with these words, and a stigma came to surround them in certain communities. This stigma has sent a lot of artists away from our site, requesting DNP status simply and only because we use the terms. A "tiny little crack" can still be fixed, and if it's not going to ruin anything else, why not fix it?
Updated by anonymous
Furrin_Gok said:
It's like people fail to see NotMeNotYou's post
This is a fairly simple fix that won't break anything, while its existence is broken simply because some turds think it's cool to use existing words as insults while kicking an already downed individual. People have actually been bullied with these words, and a stigma came to surround them in certain communities. This stigma has sent a lot of artists away from our site, requesting DNP status simply and only because we use the terms. A "tiny little crack" can still be fixed, and if it's not going to ruin anything else, why not fix it?
So.. "Won't somebody PLEASE think of the feels" then only i guess.. Again, the whole point of tags are to help find things! Not to indulge people's egos. If you want to change it because of that then please just say so.. But don't pretentiously prattle on about how "broken" something is for reasons having nothing to do with said things ONLY purpose.
But as i said up there ^ to which was ignored in your reply. If it has to change in order to placate the hysterics of some. The only real option (as in actually being able to adequately do the job of the tags we have now) is penisgirl/veginaboy, or at least something very much descriptively similar to them.
Updated by anonymous
Furrin_Gok said:
This stigma has sent a lot of artists away from our site, requesting DNP status simply and only because we use the terms.
4 out of 50000+ in 9 years is not a lot. More artists have filed takedowns over their characters being labelled female.
Updated by anonymous
Clawdragons said:
I didn't know what ahegao meant when I first saw it in the tags list, so I clicked it, read the description, and now I do. Pretty easy. I don't see the problem.
Tags must be descriptive. Or following your logic we can just as well rename it to "shfioehfihesifh" and those who don't understand can just click it in the list.
So yeah, i see the problem.
Furrin_Gok said:
It's like people fail to see NotMeNotYou's post
Or maybe you didn't read his post. Should i quote? Okay:
(and doesn't compromise the tagging/search system)
I already said why i think that there was no good suggestion yet. Current tags work best. My posts are mainly ignored though.
Also, administrator is a person, and he can (and i hope will) change his mind if many people reasonably disagree with the change that does affect them.
Again, i might be cool with the change IF some tags of the same effectiveness would be suggested, but i don't see them, i don't believe they exist.
requesting DNP status simply and only because we use the terms
Why you make it sounds like only e621 uses the term, while in reality this term is used by all furry communities and currently doesn't even have an alternative.
Updated by anonymous
Bozar said:
Why you make it sounds like only e621 uses the term, while in reality this term is used by all furry communities and currently doesn't even have an alternative.
We're the only ones that require consistent, non-negotiable, and "correct", intersex terms. All other sites allow leniency, if you want to call them a female go right on ahead (regardless of context, too). The worst of the worst, FA, has literally no regulation: they (the artist) have ultimate choice on what to use no matter what. E6 is the opposite, where the site requires accuracy no matter what.
The concept of going DNP over this should be obvious, with this in mind.
Updated by anonymous
I dont meant to be rude but please if youre going to start this read the entire thread because weve been over this multiple times now and you are literally just wasting peoples time with a dead horse.
If you want to keep discussing why the tags shouldnt be changed then Im sorry theres literally no reason that hasnt been debunked and all youre doing is pressing an issue that is deflecting from the real issue at hand.
What were trying to do here is find the best alternative. Can you explain in actual real reasonable sense as to what is wrong eith literally all of the alternative suggestions?
Or maybe suggest a new one because if youre here to complain that this is "too pc" then Im sorry but weve heard it and frankly its not helpful.
Nobody wants to hear it. Its not an argument.
Updated by anonymous
If "lol muh feels" is the only argument (and boy am I using that lightly) you have to offer, do everyone a favor and refrain from posting. If we can determine tags which are still as useful but much less vulgar, we're likely to use them instead.
Updated by anonymous
GDelscribe said:
I dont meant to be rude but please if youre going to start this read the entire thread because weve been over this multiple times now and you are literally just wasting peoples time with a dead horse.
You didn't take time on commenting on any of the arguments "whats wrong with suggestions" from the previous page, you didn't make any effort to take anything useful from "36 pages" into the original post, in fact you didn't care enough to make OP look readable, you didn't even care to fix the broken formatting in it. So if you don't care about people's time, why you expect someone will care about yours?
All you do here is trying to shrug off any point that contradicts the thing you want to do.
I really really don't want starting quoting my own posts that are less than two days old.
Updated by anonymous
Furrin_Gok said:
It's like people fail to see NotMeNotYou's post
You and a few others here have the least right to use that since you ignored my objections as to that. Why do you use it only to whom it fits your goal or will?
Du und ein paar andere hier haben das wenigste recht das zu benutzen, da ihr meine Einwände was das betrifft ignoriert. Warum benutzt ihr das nur wen es euren Ziel oder Willen passt?
Mutisija said:
we have already went far past from the "should this be changed" to "what we should change this. even the lead admin said that cuntboy and dickgirl are vulgar terms and are better if they are changed.
You are the ones who always make strange word games and have some strange technical terms. A time came up with the idea, that his statement meant more like this: If you unable or unwilling to find these terms since a good alternative, then finished the repair.
Ihr seid die welche immer wieder merkwürdige Wortspielereien machen und dafür irgendwelche seltsamen Fachbegriffe habt. Mal auf die Idee gekommen, das seine Aussage eher so gemeint war: Wenn ihr nicht fähig oder bereit seit eine gute alternative zu diesen Begriffen zu finden, dann beendet den Reparaturversuch.
[/section]
Drkfce0 said:
This is all so stupid.. If it's not broke, don't fix it! end of story. This isn't even a subject matter (kink) i care about. But it's the principle of it all.. The last thing this site needs is tag hell.
Bozar said:
I strongly believe that the tags should be chosen NOT on the grounds of vulgarity/ethics etc, but solely on the grounds of what a casual user would type into the search field and what he would expect as a result.It also can be handled through aliases of course, but i will cause the unnecessary confusion.
Don't forget, the whole point of tags is helping people find pictures they want. E621 is an image board, not an encyclopedia.
The tags are changed, I myself have no problem with it. The only problem I have with it is when they are replaced by garbage or nonsense, so there are also some drawingers. Please, make suggestions, or give arguments for or against a tag. I also see it so that a concept should be understandable, even if I do not have a lump sum against a completely new word. But you should not take words that exist and have quite different meanings. Example: Andromorph, Gynomorph.
Die Tags werden geändert, ich selbst habe kein Problem damit. Das einzige Problem was ich damit habe ist, wenn sie durch Müll oder unsinniges ersetzt werden, so sehen es auch einige Zeichner. Bitte, macht Vorschläge, oder gebt Argumente für oder Gegen einen tag. Ich sehe es auch so das ein Begriff verständlich sein sollte, auch wenn ich nicht pauschal etwas gegen ein völlig neues Wort habe. Doch sollte man keine Worte nehmen die Existieren und ganz andere Bedeutungen haben. Beispiel: Andromorph, Gynomorph.
Clawdragons said:
I didn't know what ahegao meant when I first saw it in the tags list, so I clicked it, read the description, and now I do. Pretty easy. I don't see the problem.Actually in this case it would be even easier, because you'd see tags like gynomorph/male on a duo image and without even clicking, you'd realize "oh, gynomorph is the gender of the other character in the image", just from context.
The problems were mentioned several times, but unfortunately they are not interested, because they are against your favorites. A user on page 36, proves one of the objections. He uses gynomorph for Cuntboy. Gynomorph - Female body shape with a cuntboy who has a male body shape. A better example I can deliver on the fast not at all against the words.
You're doing as if everything is so simple, but that's not the reality. Must admit this problem we have in many words which are not based on the genital / gender schema for Cuntboy and Dickgirl. If Gynomorph, female figure means, then from the Coke bottle over females to the Dickgirl everything can be meant. Even a man with a female figure. For the reason this is not so easy from the picture, precisely because morph = form, figure in the name has. Go to the user list, users like me which tags and / or upload images are a rather small part, most have hardly written a word in the tag list. You presume that each user has an IQ of 150, or wants to contribute here.
Die Probleme wurden mehrfach genannt, doch die interessieren hier leider keinen, da sie ja gegen eure Favoriten sind. Ein User auf Seite 36, beweist schon einen der Einwände. Er benutzt Gynomorph für Cuntboy. Gynomorph - Weibliche Körperform bei einem Cuntboy der eine Männliche Körperform hat. Ein besseres Beispiel kann ich auf die schnelle gar nicht gegen die Worte liefern.
Du tust so als wäre das alles so einfach, doch das ist es in der Realität nicht. Muss zugeben, dieses Problem haben wir bei vielen Wörtern, welche nicht auf das Schema Genital/Geschlecht für Cuntboy und Dickgirl basieren. Wenn Gynomorph, weibliche Figur bedeutet, dann kann damit von der Cola Flasche über Weibchen bis zum Dickgirl alles gemeint sein. Selbst ein Mann mit weiblicher Figur. Aus dem Grund erklärt sich das nicht so einfach aus dem Bild, gerade weil morph = Form, Figur im Namen hat. Gehe mal auf die User Liste, User wie ich welche Tags setzen und/oder Bilder Hochladen sind ein eher kleiner Teil, die meisten haben kaum ein Wort in die tag liste geschrieben. Du unterstellst das jeder User einen IQ von 150 hat, oder hier seinen Beitrag leisten will.
Chaser said:
In fact, cuntboy and dickgirl are not dictionary words. You had no idea what they meant until you got into the furry community and learned. This same learning can be applied for gynomorph and andromorph.
However, there is the fact that both have already a dictionary meaning and on e621 they want to change them completely. The words say something about the appearance, the figure and here one wants to make a gender of it.
A point that is all forgotten in the whole discussion, which is very much more than a simple word change on e621. The words can spread further, as was the case with Cuntboy. It does not matter whether you want it or not, something like this happens. The words can get the same popularity. For the reason given, we should be well aware of what words we have. If the alternatives are good, then they spread faster, they are bad then can be e621 to the ridicule of the furry community. If, for example, Vagentelmen and Phalalady were met with much acceptance then we would not have the discussion, in which case you would have chosen these words already before this treat.
Es gibt aber bei Andro- Gynomorph die Tatsache, dass beide bereits eine Wörterbuch Bedeutung haben und auf e621 will man sie völlig verändern. Die Worte sagen etwas über das Aussehen, die Figur und hier will man ein geschlecht daraus machen.
Einen Punkt den alle bei der Ganzen Diskussion Vergessen ist, das es sehr wohl mehr als nur ein einfache Wortänderung auf e621 ist. Die Worte können sich weiterverbreiten, wie es bei Cuntboy der fall war. Es ist egal ob ihr das wollt oder nicht, so etwas passiert. Die Worte können die selbe Popularität bekommen. Aus dem genannten Grund sollten wir auf e621 uns gut überlegen welche Wörter wir nehmen. Sind die alternativen gut, dann verbreiten sie sich schneller, sind sie schlecht dann kann e621 zum Gespött der Furry gemeinde werden. Wenn zum Beispiel Vagentelmen und Phalalady auf viel Akzeptanz getroffen wären dann hätten wir nicht die Diskussion, in dem Fall hätte man hier schon vor diesem Treat, einfach diese Worte gewählt.
GDelscribe said:
What were trying to do here is find the best alternative. Can you explain in actual real reasonable sense as to what is wrong eith literally all of the alternative suggestions?Or maybe suggest a new one because if youre here to complain that this is "too pc" then Im sorry but weve heard it and frankly its not helpful.
That was months ago, today it is no longer so that prove yours and the answers of some others here daily. You speak of suggestions and arguments, but if users like me, they will be ignored, or with always the same excuse, as not relevant side by side pushed. Not even the fact that the majority against the two favorites, is interested here. I have, since I argued here with perhaps more suggestions and arguments than you put in the whole 37 pages. So I learned something about the opinion of others, I had to almost beg. Minor things were argued. The meaning of the word for non-English-speaking as secondary, when choosing the best word.
I say it again, you can not expect that all users, no matter what language, read here 37 pages. Especially if you and a few others on the last pages show you and those not even half his reading, what others write or ignored. Please finish your own, make yourself an admin, if you are not willing to participate constructively.
Apart from this, a constructive and fair discussion is more difficult, since all word suggestions are distributed on 37 pages. If, as I had suggested, the discussion of the words had been made in a new treat, with a new task, there would be no discussion at all because of the change. Moreover, in the New Treat, all the proposals that were made, perhaps including the pros and cons, could have been published.
The now only Andro and Gynomorph in the discussion are because because some have withdrawn, because they realize that it makes no sense to argue. It is all considered as secondary, even if the argument comes that it can offend people. This leads the discussion into the absurd. A question: What must still happen, that you come to the opinion that andromorph and gynomorph is not the best choice? Meanwhile, there are 2 users more against this proposal.
Das war vor Monaten so, heute ist es nicht mehr so das beweisen deine und die Antworten einiger anderer hier Täglich. Du redest von Vorschlägen und Argumenten, doch wenn User wie ich welche vorbringen werden sie ignoriert oder mit immer den selben ausreden, als nicht relevant bei Seite geschoben. Nicht mal die Tatsache das die Mehrheit gegen die beiden Favoriten ist, interessiert hier. Ich habe, seit ich hier mit argumentiere vielleicht mehr Vorschläge und Argumente gebracht, als du in den ganzen 37 Seiten. Damit ich etwas über die Meinung anderer erfahre musste ich bei einem fast betteln. Nebensächliche Dinge wurden argumentiert. Die Bedeutung des Wortes für nicht englischsprachige als nebensächlich bezeichnet, bei der Wahl des Besten Wortes.
Ich sage es noch mal, du kannst nicht erwarten das alle User, egal welcher Sprache, hier 37 Seiten lesen. Schon gar nicht wenn du und ein paar andere auf den letzten Seiten zeigen, das du und jene nicht mal die Hälfte dessen Lesen, was andere schreiben oder ignoriert. Bitte beende dein, dich selbst zum Admin machen, wenn du selbst nicht bereit bist dich konstruktiv zu beteiligen.
Abgesehen davon, ist eine konstruktive und faire Diskussion erschwert, da alle Wort Vorschläge auf 37 Seiten verteilt sind. Hätte man wie ich vorschlug, die Diskussion der Worte auf ein neuen treat, mit neuer Aufgabenstellung gemacht, dann gäbe es die erneute Diskussion wegen dem sein lassen der Änderung gar nicht. Zudem hätte man in dem Neuen Treat ganz am Anfang alle Vorschläge, welche gemacht wurden Sammeln können, vielleicht inklusive der Pro und Contra Argumente, veröffentlichen können.
Das jetzt nur noch Andro und Gynomorph in der Diskussion sind liegt daran weil einige sich zurückgezogen haben, weil sie merken das es kein Sinn macht zu argumentieren. Es wird alles als nebensächlich betrachtet, selbst wenn das Argument kommt, das es Menschen beleidigen kann. Gerade das führt die Diskussion ins absurde. Ein Frage: Was muss noch passieren, das du zu der Meinung kommst, das Andromorph und Gynomorph nicht die beste Wahl ist? Inzwischen gibt es 2 User mehr die gegen diesen Vorschlag sind.
Updated by anonymous
Siral_Exan said:
We're the only ones that require consistent, non-negotiable, and "correct", intersex terms. All other sites allow leniency, if you want to call them a female go right on ahead (regardless of context, too). The worst of the worst, FA, has literally no regulation: they (the artist) have ultimate choice on what to use no matter what. E6 is the opposite, where the site requires accuracy no matter what.The concept of going DNP over this should be obvious, with this in mind.
Hm, you are right about leniency, BUT i haven't ever seen people on other sites using some non-vulgar alternatives to "cuntboy", in those cases they usually just use FtM, female, male etc. And here no matter what the thread will come to, they still will not be allowed to tag their character with those words.
Ratte said:
If we can determine tags which are still as useful but much less vulgar, we're likely to use them instead.
What if you don't find any as useful tags?
Updated by anonymous
Bozar said:
Hm, you are right about leniency, BUT i haven't ever seen people on other sites using some non-vulgar alternatives to "cuntboy", in those cases they usually just use FtM, female, male etc. And here no matter what the thread will come to, they still will not be allowed to tag their character with those words.
Cboy, cuntboi (it is a regular, but up for interpretation), surprisingly vagentleman is used, and intersex male. But that was from a search with just "cuntboy", and there are cases where posts used male sex terms (gay, male/male, m/m) as well. Leniency is the big killer for searching, there may be more terms that aren't easily findable.
Updated by anonymous
Drkfce0 said:
...... The only real option (as in actually being able to adequately do the job of the tags we have now) is penisgirl/veginaboy, or at least something very much descriptively similar to them.
If it actually HAS to be feels >>> suitability and usability then let's at least try to get it as close as we can. ^
Updated by anonymous
PlüschTiger said:
You are the ones who always make strange word games and have some strange technical terms. A time came up with the idea, that his statement meant more like this: If you unable or unwilling to find these terms since a good alternative, then finished the repair.
1. i cant understand half of what you are saying now
2. they claimed that we should not change anything ("If it's not broke, don't fix it! end of story") and i told them that at this point we are not discussing anymore about whether it should be changed or not.
Updated by anonymous
Bozar said:
What if you don't find any as useful tags?
We have, but they keep getting tangled up in the shitposts of LUL MUH FEELS when ironically it's the same argument coming from both sides. How many of you actually use the tags in question for searching/tagging? You all make it seem like this kind of aliasing has never ever happened before when it very clearly has.
By now we are not talking about whether or not we should change the tags, but rather what we should change them to.
Updated by anonymous
Ratte said:
We have, but they keep getting tangled up in the shitposts of LUL MUH FEELS when ironically it's the same argument coming from both sides. How many of you actually use the tags in question for searching/tagging? You all make it seem like this kind of aliasing has never ever happened before when it very clearly has.By now we are not talking about whether or not we should change the tags, but rather what we should change them to.
I haven't seen any, so as an admin can you please answer:
What if you don't find any as useful tags? (or "What if you didn't find any as useful tags?" if you insist)
Updated by anonymous
Bozar said:
I haven't seen any, so as an admin can you please answer:
What if you don't find any as useful tags? (or "What if you didn't find any as useful tags?" if you insist)
That isn't relevant to the topic.
Updated by anonymous
I use dickgirl for both, cuntboy for neither. I think the closest we've come to viable options so far are intersex_masculne/feminine or the reverse. It's as accurate as you can get, and it doesn't use any terms that a person seeing porn for the first time wouldn't know. Can't say male/female because it creates confusion about the identity vs the parts, and the morph tags everyone keeps harping on are ridiculous. It's longer than the nice succinct words we have now, but if we insist on changing them, that route beats what we've been circling.
Some of the discussion is lost on the if vs what question because a lot of the people arguing against the change aren't repeating, or what just isn't being recognized, is that in the absence of any viable option, change can't reasonably happen. If the best alternatives offered for pizza for dinner are dog shit and cow shit, you don't pick one type of shit, you stick with pizza. Everyone needs to stop being married to an option as "inevitable because it's the best so far" and honestly assess the merits of everything.
Updated by anonymous
Ratte said:
That isn't relevant to the topic.
Not true. It is very relevant to the topic. Because if your answer is "we would change the tags to the worse alternative anyway" it would mean that there is no point in discussing the tags here at all, you still would do what you want, no matter if it's right or wrong.
So explaining why particular tag is a bad idea would be a complete waste of time.
Updated by anonymous
Bozar said:
Not true. It is very relevant to the topic. Because if your answer is "we would change the tags to the worse alternative anyway" it would mean that there is no point in discussing the tags here at all, you still would do what you want, no matter if it's right or wrong.
So explaining why particular tag is a bad idea would be a complete waste of time.
No, it really isn't. We have already made suggestions which are better than the current tags. Unfortunately this keeps getting muddied in shitposts like yours and numerous others. Again, LUL MUH FEELS isn't an argument, it's a waste of everyone's time.
notnobody said:
I use dickgirl for both, cuntboy for neither. I think the closest we've come to viable options so far are intersex_masculne/feminine or the reverse. It's as accurate as you can get, and it doesn't use any terms that a person seeing porn for the first time wouldn't know. Can't say male/female because it creates confusion about the identity vs the parts, and the morph tags everyone keeps harping on are ridiculous. It's longer than the nice succinct words we have now, but if we insist on changing them, that route beats what we've been circling.Some of the discussion is lost on the if vs what question because a lot of the people arguing against the change aren't repeating, or what just isn't being recognized, is that in the absence of any viable option, change can't reasonably happen. If the best alternatives offered for pizza for dinner are dog shit and cow shit, you don't pick one type of shit, you stick with pizza. Everyone needs to stop being married to an option as "inevitable because it's the best so far" and honestly assess the merits of everything.
I have a preference for the intersex-based tags, but the problem is that herm is still implicated to intersex when it shouldn't be and this likely won't change. The point is to devulgarize the tags, which is a very simple thing to do and something we have done in the past for other tags.
Updated by anonymous
Ratte said:
No, it really isn't. We have already made suggestions which are better than the current tags. Unfortunately this keeps getting muddied in shitposts like yours and numerous others. Again, LUL MUH FEELS isn't an argument, it's a waste of everyone's time.
Simple "No it really isn't" is not a very constructive answer, but okay, if you don't want to answer, i won't insist any further.
Ratte said:
Unfortunately this keeps getting muddied in shitposts like yours
Like mine? Now that's just not fair. In all my posts i said why i think what i think and tried to explain my point.
Updated by anonymous
Bozar said:
Simple "No it really isn't" is not a very constructive answer, but okay, if you don't want to answer, i won't insist any further.Like mine? Now that's just not fair. In all my posts i said why i think what i think and tried to explain my point.
If there is no viable alternative things will be kept as they are. This is not the case for this matter, which is why your hypotheticals are irrelevant to the topic.
What other sites use doesn't really mean a whole lot since other sites don't require tagging in the first place. We have a wiki. We have aliasing. These tags would be aliased, meaning that their use would not change and they would still be found in the wiki with a link to the aliased tag.
Again, this is no longer about whether or not a change should take place, it's about which new tags we want to use instead.
Updated by anonymous
This is going in circles, we'll be back with a final thread soonish and get this wrapped up there.
Current expected timeline:
Updated by anonymous
