.....

Axelthefox said:
Anyone feel it should be banned? Cause i feel it should. Some states it's illegal and for those states it's probably illegal to browse this site,and i feel it makes some people uncomfortable,so i feel it should be banned.

no one cares

Axelthefox said:
Anyone feel it should be banned? Cause i feel it should. Some states it's illegal and for those states it's probably illegal to browse this site,and i feel it makes some people uncomfortable,so i feel it should be banned.

thats why the blacklist function exists on e621. so people who dont want to see something wont have to see it.

1. Don't type "pr0n." This is a site full of porn, serving the purpose of allowing people to browse for porn, even if it wasn't its primary goal. Type out the word "Porn" properly, please.

2. Use the blacklist. I forget if we had a default one or not, but I, for one, have cub rating:e and cub bulge blacklisted.

3. E621 is not going to ban cub. If the site in its entirety is illegal for you to browse, even with cub blacklisted, quit browsing it. Where the servers are hosted, it's legal, and they aren't losing any money thanks to being hosted by Dragon Fruit, which is funded by Bad Dragon.

Well i don't think it will be banned cause this is e621 the place where you can see every weird shit like nazi ponies ect.
Also cub porn on this site officially can't be declared as illegal because it's only drawn stuff.
But this is e621 where you can see nazi ponies and other very wrong stuff, but who cares i love e621 as it is

oh boy its this thread again

I wrote about this kinda thing in a compilation of the Furry Fandoms history I am still working on.
I left off there. I'll read an excerpt from the article to you:

I know its pretty biased based on word choice. I might eventually edit the biasing out. But I've never really been a fan of it. Though I don't really care for banning it as its only cartoons

Axelthefox said:
i feel it makes some people uncomfortable,so i feel it should be banned.

Photomanips like your avatar make me uncomfortable. BAN THEM.

Jackalfag said:
Photomanips like your avatar make me uncomfortable. BAN THEM.

The mother of all wars has begun!

I don't like you, I feel like you should be banned.

Look lets be honest here. If we banned everything that made someone uncomfortable we'd have no art, nor music, videogames, movies, technology, communication, hell I would even say we wouldn't even have lives. So no I say we shouldn't ban it. Not unless it caused a massive infulx of illegal activity, which considering how little evidence I've seen it has not. So again no ban needed just use blacklist.

My viewpoint is very simple: Nothing should be censored unless it in itself is illegal. Fantasy, or depiction of fantasy is not illegal, hence cub porn should not be censored.

If you live in a country/state where it is illegal you should either accept it (and maybe not browse this site), contest it, or move.

If people don't like to see cub I got a whole list of things I don't want to see, lets censor all that as well *rolls out papyrus scroll and clears throat, then waits*

Waba_Grill said:
I don't like you, I feel like you should be banned.

http://i.imgur.com/xgz9nkR.gif

TruckNutz said:
I wrote about this kinda thing in a compilation of the Furry Fandoms history I am still working on.
I left off there. I'll read an excerpt from the article to you:

Cub art and its growing divisiveness

As in any civilization, there are occasionally internal disagreements, some of which can turn hostile very quickly. As of more recently, the Furry Fandom has seen a growing schism over the morality of cub porn/art; That is, furry artwork often depicting underaged anthropomorphic characters in situations ranging from suggestive to sexually explicit. One factor fueling the already dangerous fire has to do with the legal stance of cub pornography; In some countries, such as the United States, such artwork is considered legal (because the artwork depicts fictional characters instead of real beings). However, their legality and overall moral stance are highly controversial. Cub art, especially that of the sexual nature, has been partly blamed for encouraging pedophilia, the unnatural sexual interest in underaged persons (generally persons under 18 years of age).
The defenders of cub porn, however, do not generally see a link between anthropomorphic and real life pedophilia (though there are likely also a considerable number of real life pedophiles involved in the cub porn sub fandom). Their stance is that, somehow, it is morally justifiable to protect, and even expand, cub pornography, and that somehow a sexual desire for underaged persons/characters is, or ever was, morally and socially acceptable. There are few, if any, true arguments which can be made to influence the general populace that such practice should even be grudgingly tolerated. However, the cub sub fandom has shown tremendous resistence to any further "incursion" upon their central institution. Indeed, cub pornography has become more entrenched in that region now than it has ever been before, despite increasing domestic and foreign opposition.
If the controversies surrounding cub artwork continue to escalate without reaching a reasonable conclusion, it is very well likely that it may eventually fuel a civil war within the furry fandom, pitting the forces opposed to cub porn against those strongly in favor of it.

I know its pretty biased based on word choice. I might eventually edit the biasing out. But I've never really been a fan of it. Though I don't really care for banning it as its only cartoons

personally, morals of any kind should just be thrown out of the window, they are a part of the problem and nothing but trouble for conflicts like these and dont help one bit because they are more or less inherently subjective and highly hypocritical as has been shown with the boycott of FN earlyer this year for the same reasons... morals, a excuse not to use proper reasoning and facts...

Axelthefox said:
Anyone feel it should be banned? Cause i feel it should. Some states it's illegal and for those states it's probably illegal to browse this site,and i feel it makes some people uncomfortable,so i feel it should be banned.

Oh joy... this thread again...

First off, no, it's not illegal. There's a clear, cut difference between hand/digitally drawn FICTIONAL animal characters who appear/are described as underage (which in and of itself is subjective as hell, seeing as not every species is, or has to be the same height as/have the proportions as a grown human, you can have a small breed of dog that stands upright and barely comes to an average person's knees, and still have it be like 60 something, but I digress), and actual CP with actual underage individuals, failure to tell the difference between the two is your problem. More over browsing cub/loli/shota art isn't going to result in the feds busting down your door and vanning you away, unless you live in a police state/invasive dictatorship, in which case you wouldn't be able to access sites like this regardless.

Second, "makes some people uncomfortable" is one of the lowest forms of argument, every conceivable thing in existence will make "some people" uncomfortable, you solve it by blocking it, ignoring it, or avoiding places where it is. If you got a problem with cub porn, blacklist it, if you still can't handle that/or are one of those that are "bothered by the fact that it's allowed", then leave the site and go to FA or FN.

*sigh* wasn't this covered during the FN fiasco a month or so back? or is that mess now being dragged over here to try and stir up more trouble and conflict?

1. cub porn (clean or otherwise) is a form of artwork. regardless of your opinions about it.

2. why single out one thing, when there are plenty of other things just as bad, if not worse, such as scat/gore/vore/etc.?

3. cub porn is not child porn so if you had that thought in your head, go ahead and purge the comparison.

cub porn and for that matter, any underage DRAWN or animated hentai, is fiction. no one is being hurt, there are no irl children involved in any shape or form. they are 2 different things.

4. this can, and is, be seen as a form of censorship. and if we start banning one type of art because it makes someone feel uncomfortable then where does that end? it ends, MAYBE, when no art of any kind remains.

5. art stirs emotions in people. if it doesn't do that in any way then it's not art. explicit or otherwise. so to that end, your asking for art to be banned because you don't like it.

also, at least in the US, whether cub porn is illegal or not varies from state to state iirc. something to do with what is or isn't considered obscene. which, now that i think of it, is dumb and they should probably set a precedent of some kind somewhere so that isn't quite so purely subjective. and no, i do not mean simply lumping cub porn together with irl child porn. keep them separate but do away with the subjectiveness surround cub porn in court.

actually, that subjectiveness probably plays a role in this very thread too. it's not helping anything.

R'D said:
personally, morals of any kind should just be thrown out of the window, they are a part of the problem and nothing but trouble for conflicts like these and dont help one bit because they are more or less inherently subjective and highly hypocritical as has been shown with the boycott of FN earlier this year for the same reasons... morals, a excuse not to use proper reasoning and facts...

a valid point. also...

morality: principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior.

morality as a whole is nothing but a subjective term based on even MORE subjective terms. has bringing the subjectiveness of morality into a discussion ever helped anything?
---------------------
lastly, i will end with this.

"i feel it makes some people uncomfortable,so i feel it should be banned."

*twitch* banning something...to...protect...emotions...must resist urge to rage... *sigh* that it quite literally one of THE dumbest reasons i have ever heard for wanting to ban anything ever. see points 4 and 5 for why that is a truly dumb idea and reason for wanting something banned. it's basically advocating the censorship of art because some forms of art make you feel uncomfortable.

R'D said:
personally, morals of any kind should just be thrown out of the window, they are a part of the problem and nothing but trouble for conflicts like these and dont help one bit because they are more or less inherently subjective and highly hypocritical as has been shown with the boycott of FN earlyer this year for the same reasons... morals, a excuse not to use proper reasoning and facts...

There's nothing wrong with using morality in this argument. To a degree, this site does appeal to morality. They do have a generally hands-off approach to that sort of thing but hate speech has gotten people banned.

Not calling for anything to get removed, here, though.

You can't ban cub porn. If it's illegal where the site is hosted, then it's illegal. I wish everyone would give it up, but that's probably not going to happen, and you can't force it. However, real child porn is one of the most evil and abhorrent things that happens on this planet. What's worse? And it happens all around us, which is why I am gradually taking part in groups that combat it, as well as all forms of human trafficking and slavery.

The way I feel about it, just because we can look at cub porn, and just because it doesn't harm anyone in real life (supposedly) doesn't mean it's worthwhile. I think we can be better.

Personally, I don't care about morals and all that stuff when it comes to art because its just that, art. So long as the characters featured are entirely fictional. If rape and other morally questionable pieces of art are 'accepted' to some extent, then why not cub/young?

While I'm against real CP, I don't think the drawn stuff should be treated the same way because like I said, its just art of fictional characters even more so if its an anthropomorphic animal. I heard that Bad Dragon (who owns e6 and FN) has confirmed that drawn explicit cub is not illegal hence FN used to accept such material until the idiots from FA came to boycott the heck of it demanding the site to ban such material.

So, in conclusion, screw the anti-cub people...

• raises flame shields at full power *

MT_r34 said:
Personally, I don't care about morals and all that stuff when it comes to art because its just that, art. So long as the characters featured are entirely fictional. If rape and other morally questionable pieces of art are 'accepted' to some extent, then why not cub/young?

While I'm against real CP, I don't think the drawn stuff should be treated the same way because like I said, its just art of fictional characters even more so if its an anthropomorphic animal. I heard that Bad Dragon (who owns e6 and FN) has confirmed that drawn explicit cub is not illegal hence FN used to accept such material until the idiots from FA came to boycott the heck of it demanding the site to ban such material.

So, in conclusion, screw the anti-cub people...

• raises flame shields at full power *

agreed 100% and nice avatar pic.

This is a fishing pole. He just threw it right into the water.

On the chance that you really are serious, please see e621:blacklist.

Axelthefox said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PROTECT_Act_of_2003

http://horrificfursuits.tumblr.com/post/144928124193/drawing-porn-of-child-characters-from-comics-or

Small hook, art depicting cub_pornography(fictional original characters) would first have to be considered obscene to even be considered under that law, and thats not likly to happen because anything posted and approved here, a archive for drawn and painted art will be deemed to have "artistic merit" among other exclusions. Not to mention that that law does fringe on being unconstitutional.

And a fair warning tumblr is most certainly not a valid source.

How about no.

I don't care if it makes you uncomfortable. I don't like pornography that doesn't involve anthros or ferals (just has humans / humanoids), but I'm not advocating that sites ban that.

Your options are to use your blacklist, or go to one of the many sites that cater to your feelings of comfort. FN and FA exist - go there.

Axelthefox said:
Then why do furry cons such as FC ban it in their terms?

http://www.furtherconfusion.org/dealers/

3. Legal Responsibility – Further Confusion requires that attendees, volunteers, and vendors observe and adhere to all state and federal laws. We would like to highlight the following laws in particular:

3.1 PROTECT Act of 2003 – Portions of the PROTECT Act of 2003 provide for increased penalties and easier prosecution of crimes against minors.

3.2 US Code Title 18, Sections 1466A and 2252A – Enacted by the Protect Act of 2003, these laws relate to knowledgeable production, distribution, receipt, or possession with intent to distribute obscene visual depictions of any kind that depict minors, actual or fictional, engaging in sexually explicit conduct. This includes drawings, cartoons, sculptures, and/or paintings.

3.3 Art and/or publications containing content described by FC Dealer’s Room Rule 3.2 may not be promoted or sold at Further Confusion.

3.4 Further Confusion is required to enforce the provisions of Title 18 sections and will engage local law enforcement should we find such material being sold at our event.

Because they don't like having a negative reputation.

The US Code Title 18, specifically Section 1466A deals with the definition of what exactly CP is. The only drawn child pornography that is prohibited is if it is obscene and "lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value;".
As such, our hosted art is in a gray zone until someone actually defines what obscene is for our "culture". Since we hosted the stuff openly for more than 8 years without any sort of actual problems with it we will continue to host it until such a time that it does definitely becomes illegal.

Axelthefox said:
Then why do furry cons such as FC ban it in their terms?

http://www.furtherconfusion.org/dealers/

3. Legal Responsibility – Further Confusion requires that attendees, volunteers, and vendors observe and adhere to all state and federal laws. We would like to highlight the following laws in particular:

3.1 PROTECT Act of 2003 – Portions of the PROTECT Act of 2003 provide for increased penalties and easier prosecution of crimes against minors.

3.2 US Code Title 18, Sections 1466A and 2252A – Enacted by the Protect Act of 2003, these laws relate to knowledgeable production, distribution, receipt, or possession with intent to distribute obscene visual depictions of any kind that depict minors, actual or fictional, engaging in sexually explicit conduct. This includes drawings, cartoons, sculptures, and/or paintings.

3.3 Art and/or publications containing content described by FC Dealer’s Room Rule 3.2 may not be promoted or sold at Further Confusion.

3.4 Further Confusion is required to enforce the provisions of Title 18 sections and will engage local law enforcement should we find such material being sold at our event.

For the same reason they're not allowed to carry actual weapons with their fursuits/costumes, wear suits with sexually explicit features, or preform overly sexual acts (whether implied or physical), certain things aren't allowed to be presented, sold, etc in a public area. Moreover, the people hosting said event don't want to face the inevitable backlash and/or legal issues that come from when someone does something like that. There are plenty of things you can do in the safety and seclusion of your home that you can't do/would be "illegal" in a public space.

Axelthefox said:
horrificfursuits.tumblr.com/post/144928124193/drawing-porn-of-child-characters-from-comics-or

with it's reputation...i'm highly unlikely to trust much of anything from tumblr. and tumblr would be one of the LAST places i'd want to go to for any information regarding the legality of anything. that'd be asking for trouble.

No.

R'D said:
personally, morals of any kind should just be thrown out of the window, they are a part of the problem and nothing but trouble for conflicts like these and dont help one bit because they are more or less inherently subjective and highly hypocritical as has been shown with the boycott of FN earlyer this year for the same reasons... morals, a excuse not to use proper reasoning and facts...

Is that just in regards to art/opinion, or everyday life? Because I'm pretty sure fapping to pixel rape and actually going out and raping someone is very different as far as "live and let live" goes.

By that logic alone, all of furry porn by itself should be banned because it's an off reference to zoophilia (which is illegal in some states). There's always a blacklist option if you really don't want to see any of it.

treos said:
with it's reputation...i'm highly unlikely to trust much of anything from tumblr. and tumblr would be one of the LAST places i'd want to go to for any information regarding the legality of anything. that'd be asking for trouble.

the information on that post is completely correct

In my eyes, this entire thing is fictional and harms nobody. Some people enjoy young creatures depicted in fantasy and fictional artwork - they should be allowed to enjoy it when it is nothing more than a pleasurable thought in their mind. If someone is offended by this stuff, then instead of trying to take it away from the folks who just so happen to have that fetish, they should instead blacklist it. There's no point in wiping something out if it's harmless anyway and would just anger and alienate a minor community.

Cuddledump said:

Is that just in regards to art/opinion, or everyday life? Because I'm pretty sure fapping to pixel rape and actually going out and raping someone is very different as far as "live and let live" goes.

not sure if your responding to the wrong person here because it was TruckNutz asserting that both were one and a same and should be treated the same based on their own morals. As for i do see morals as wrong in directing any area in life and il go so far as to say that it is one of the worst social constructs humanity has ever learned/ devised. much killing, injustice, discrimination and enslavement in the name of what ever religion or faith one belongs to is rooted in morals...

Axelthefox said:
Anyone feel it should be banned? Cause i feel it should. Some states it's illegal and for those states it's probably illegal to browse this site,and i feel it makes some people uncomfortable,so i feel it should be banned.

If cub porn makes you uncomfortable, blacklist it and be done with it.

If you're still not satisfied after that because other people still have access to it, then the problem isn't them or this site, it's you.

Many "I feel" statements.