Yesterday Ippiki changed site rules to include following part

(Sourcing)

• Please include a valid source when you upload.
• Sources can include links to the artist's profile, gallery, or the submission itself.
• The method of sourcing is the prerogative of the uploader, so long as it is valid.
• If the source is valid, do not change it to suit your personal tastes. This will be treated in the same capacity as arguing or tag warring.

Two lasts points are completely against https://e621.net/wiki/show?nordirect=1&title=howto%3Asource , were not discussed, and IMO are just bad.

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
Yesterday Ippiki changed site rules to include following part

Two lasts points are completely against https://e621.net/wiki/show?nordirect=1&title=howto%3Asource , were not discussed, and IMO are just bad.

I can tell you why ippiki_ookami made these changes.
When he uploads something from FA (post #402511, for example), he always puts the artist's gallery as the source, like so:
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/rapps/

Whenever I find a source like that, I change it to something more specific, like so:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/12089725/

Ippiki doesn't like this, so he changed the rules to make it forbidden.
I think this is wrong on many levels, and would like to see an official ruling on the matter.

Peekaboo said:
I don't see why he made that change, when I click a source link I want to go directly to the image itself that the artist submitted, not go though 5+ pages of the artists gallery just to try and find it.

And if they delete the submission?

It isn't official yet and might not stay, depending on the feedback given in the staff forums.

Halite said:
And if they delete the submission?

Then all artist galleries are on artist's wiki page. I don't see how link to gallery where the picture isn't anymore is better than dead link to page with image.
Sometimes direct link to file is better in this type of cases, but I don't think that that few cases like that are worth to prefer it when better sources are available.

If I remember correctly there was once suggestion to implement multiple sources. I don't know what happened to it, but I think that it would be a good compromise.

Wow, this is . . . wow

Rule changes to win the sourcing fight :o

Peekaboo said:
Rule changes should not go by "what if?" scenarios in my opinion, but if they do delete a submission for whatever reason, then you can just change it to their gallery.

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
Then all artist galleries are on artist's wiki page. I don't see how link to gallery where the picture isn't anymore is better than dead link to page with image.
Sometimes direct link to file is better in this type of cases, but I don't think that that few cases like that are worth to prefer it when better sources are available.

If I remember correctly there was once suggestion to implement multiple sources. I don't know what happened to it, but I think that it would be a good compromise.

And if the artist isn't tagged?
I've had this happen, try to tag artist, the source is the image, image is deleted, can't find artist.

Gilda_The_Gryphon said:
I don't see how link to gallery where the picture isn't anymore is better than dead link to page with image.

I concur.
I've wasted a lot of time browsing FA galleries, looking for images that are no longer there. Direct links would've saved me some trouble.

Halite said:
And if the artist isn't tagged?
I've had this happen, try to tag artist, the source is the image, image is deleted, can't find artist.

I don't think that pictures that have valid source, don't have artist tag, and were deleted from artist page before anyone could have retagged them are frequent enough to justify making sources redundant to wiki pages, and making searching for image source more difficult.

It's like to force people to take gun with silver bullets everywhere just in case of vampire attack.

I've had it happen, more than a couple times.

Peekaboo said:
I don't see why he made that change, when I click a source link I want to go directly to the image itself that the artist submitted, not go though 5+ pages of the artists gallery just to try and find it.

^

Genjar said:
I concur.
I've wasted a lot of time browsing FA galleries, looking for images that are no longer there. Direct links would've saved me some trouble.

^

Gallery link or link to tumblr-post (or similar) should be an additional field or simply go in the description. These options aren't mutually exclusive, really.

We could have some extra functionality added to force an artist field to be filled in even if it is just unknown_artist. I think if the poster actually knows who the artist is they are more likely to just type that in, rather than have their post blocked.

Obviously mods would have to look out for people just spamming in fake artist names to get around this.

I honestly think links to the submission are better for sources. If you want to know the artists' profile, you can just click the ? next to the artist tag.

If the source is known, there should ALWAYS be an artist tag, since the artist isn't going to be unknown if you can find their gallery. If the image is removed, you KNOW it's been removed and additionally tools such as the Wayback Machine could still be used to view the original submission.

Munkelzahn said:
Whenever I find a source like that, I change it to something more specific, like so:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/12089725/

The only issue I see with this is that sometimes its not the artist's page you are getting the picture from. Sometimes the commissioner uploads it to their fa, or doesn't allow the artist to put it up on their page, etc.
We don't want to acknowledge the commissioner as the artist or anything like that. We'd just have to trust the commissioner puts a link to the artist they got the picture from in the description, or is well-known enough to be easily recognized by their art style.
Also there are many times in which I have found a piece of artwork that I cannot, for the life of me, image source. I HATE putting in an "unknown_artist" tag because I really want them to get credit for it. In these cases I feel that if you don't have the artists page, etc., the bare minimum should at least be the picture's file itself.

I source the artist's FA page. Saw ippiki do it, so I decided to do it too

Moon_Moon said:
The only issue I see with this is that sometimes its not the artist's page you are getting the picture from. Sometimes the commissioner uploads it to their fa, or doesn't allow the artist to put it up on their page, etc.

I don't think we should make special changes because a commisioner is sourcing wrong, just fix their mistake. If they don't allow it on the artist page (which makes me shake my head), then ya, generic gallery source

I source directly to where the image is (post, image view, gallery)

ippiki_ookami said:
It isn't official yet and might not stay, depending on the feedback given in the staff forums.

Wouldn't be better to change it after a decision has been made and not while in discussion?

TheHuskyK9 said:
I source the artist's FA page. Saw ippiki do it, so I decided to do it too

This. Except for other sites like DA, etc lol.

Peekaboo said:
I don't see why he made that change, when I click a source link I want to go directly to the image itself that the artist submitted, not go though 5+ pages of the artists gallery just to try and find it.

ippiki_ookami said:
It isn't official yet and might not stay, depending on the feedback given in the staff forums.

Why not ask for feedback from the userbase? or better yet, why dont you "not change rules" that aren't official yet or even spoken about yet? Seems like you jumped the gun on this one a little bit.

Munkelzahn said:
I can tell you why ippiki_ookami made these changes.
When he uploads something from FA (post #402511, for example), he always puts the artist's gallery as the source, like so:
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/rapps/

Whenever I find a source like that, I change it to something more specific, like so:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/12089725/

Ippiki doesn't like this, so he changed the rules to make it forbidden.
I think this is wrong on many levels, and would like to see an official ruling on the matter.

I agree with you. The image soruce link should be to the image uploaded, not a artist page where you have to go though 20 pages of images just to find the original upload.

Butterscotch said:
This. Except for other sites like DA, etc lol.

Sourcing artist page on DA makes absolutely no sense since submission pages are in format http://artistname.deviantart.com/art/artname and artist page url is just without /art/artname part.

ippiki_ookami said:
It isn't official yet and might not stay, depending on the feedback given in the staff forums.

If it's not official then why didn't you write this in dtext section, like this:

or even better, why didn't you wait with posting it into wiki with official rules until it's official? This is page that admins, including you, are linking when justifying user records, not a scrapbook.

Not to mention the fact that you apparently don't consider change that would result in potential warnings and bans to be discussed with userbase.

These rules are likely to be completely replaced with newer, updated rules, and we already have a solution for sourcing things in a particular way that allows for the gallery to still be found even if the submission is deleted.

Sources are always preferred to go to the submission page itself, then the gallery, and we might set a standard on this but currently the only rule regarding sourcing is that you make your best faith effort to include it.

Also, using a direct download URL is really unhelpful and while not against the rules, is highly frowned upon using

The next update is bringing multiple sources per post so this whole argument will be moot anyway.

This reminds me, how many sources are then possible to be specified at the same time?

I'm with the party that says source links should link to the image itself and not the artist's gallery. If I want to go to the gallery of said artist then I shall do so myself.

FatherOfGray said:
I'm with the party that says source links should link to the image itself and not the artist's gallery. If I want to go to the gallery of said artist then I shall do so myself.

It's already been said that there will be multiple sources, in other words, the argument is already over :P

For now I'm just putting share links in the description like so.

I feel this is where they should go anyway maybe?

tony311 said:
The next update is bringing multiple sources per post so this whole argument will be moot anyway.

<3 <3 <3

NotMeNotYou said:
This reminds me, how many sources are then possible to be specified at the same time?

Technically no limit, since you just put multiple lines of URLs into a textarea, but I've limited it to 5 to prevent spam, and 5 seems like enough for any situation (as long as you don't go crazy and add gallery AND page links for three or four sites). It's very easy to change though, if we agree on a different number.

tony311 said:
Technically no limit, since you just put multiple lines of URLs into a textarea, but I've limited it to 5 to prevent spam, and 5 seems like enough for any situation (as long as you don't go crazy and add gallery AND page links for three or four sites). It's very easy to change though, if we agree on a different number.

Nah, I think 5 is a good number.