The bulk update request #11450 is pending approval.

Reason: Okay, this one is a doozy.

The first batch of these implications is for sitting and standing on inanimate objects. The first BUR is a test case pending feedback on whether this is the right approach or overly specific.

"Why imply on_thing instead of thing directly?"

The term on_thing has value in being a catch-all for actions on top of an object. If a verb is missed (such as crouching, kneeling, etc.), then the tagger can at least state the position of the character as on top of the thing. Without the intermediary tag, a tagger would not be able to say a character is on top of something if the verb is missing.

"Why have on_thing at all?"

There is a valid argument to be made that the on_* tags should just be aliased to the object and that actions should be split. You could have a mostly equivalent search between sitting_on_swing, sitting on_swing, and sitting swing. However, aliasing away on_swing would mean that any action that isn't specified would require a new tag, including obscure poses or characters that have atypical bodies that can't perform searchable actions like sitting, standing, or lying. This includes flowing goo, masses of tentacles, etc. - how would you describe a character like this being on top of the object otherwise?

"Where is lying_on_*?"

The lying_on_* tags are trickier since a) some objects are too small or too awkward to lie on, b) it's rarer to lie on top of some things and may not be worth considering (eg. lying_on_swing is improbable and hasn't been tagged before ), and c) any lying_on tag has an argument to be made that it requires a separate laying_on alias since the words are used interchangeably. There is added complexity here that I do not want to approach until users discuss just the more basic actions like sitting and standing.

"If you imply sitting_on_car to sitting_on_vehicle, then sitting_on_vehicle to on_vehicle, isn't on_car implying on_vehicle redundant?"

This creates a redundant implication only if the user tags any of the *_on_car tags. However, it is necessary to include if the user tags on_car directly or it won't be implied.

Please leave feedback on this. I do not mind if people say "no, this is a bad idea", but I would like to hear specifically why you would be for or against these, as well as alternative options that would be cleaner. Note that there is precedent for these types of implication chains with sitting_on_bench and lying_on_bed, but precedent shouldn't deter you from speaking your mind if you disagree with the structure.

Just wanna say that laying and lying aren't interchangeable, they have a set difference in which one applies. In terms of tags for characters being horizontal, that is lying, an intransitive verb so that the thing that's lying is moving on its own or already in that state. Placing something on to something else (a surface) is laying, as it requires a direct object because it is a transitive verb.

I hope I made that understandable lol

nin10dope said:
Just wanna say that laying and lying aren't interchangeable, they have a set difference in which one applies. In terms of tags for characters being horizontal, that is lying, an intransitive verb so that the thing that's lying is moving on its own or already in that state. Placing something on to something else (a surface) is laying, as it requires a direct object because it is a transitive verb.

I hope I made that understandable lol

They are used interchangeably within the contexts here. People say laying down in practice all of the time. It's less about technically correctness and more about how real human beings typo a term in actual usage. If someone enters laying_on_bed, they with 99.99% certainty mean lying_on_bed, not laying an object down in a bed. Same with pretty much any other surface.

song said:
They are used interchangeably within the contexts here. People say laying down in practice all of the time. It's less about technically correctness and more about how real human beings typo a term in actual usage. If someone enters laying_on_bed, they with 99.99% certainty mean lying_on_bed, not laying an object down in a bed. Same with pretty much any other surface.

Yeah I get what you mean, I just wanted to be the Uhm Ackshualy guy for a second. Although if those two tags are enforced/kept clean, I like to think that most people will immediately understand the difference. Or just don't have mirrored tags between the two; alias laying_on_bed (and similar structure tags) to lying_on_bed and then reserve laying for objects and not places. Because ultimately laying is just the action of setting something down, where you set it is not important. But what you're lying on, since it's related to an autonomous entity, is much more common and wanting to know the location is more desirable.