The bulk update request #11331 is pending approval.

create alias black_coded (139) -> black_coded_(lore) (0)
change category black_coded_(lore) (0) -> lore # missing

Reason: topic #43539 brought up the possibility of doing this; there was broad agreement among the replies, but a BUR was never submitted as far as I can tell. I concur with the general sentiment that this tag is not suitable as a general tag under current TWYS rules because tagging race based on visual signifiers goes bad places fast.

This just sounds like an outlet for stereotyping and racism

I don't think this tag is a good idea in general for all of the reasons listed in the linked discussion thread and more.

While an artist or commissioner could give a more word-of-the-author source (similar to gender based on non-visible characteristics), this is typically not stated anywhere and is reliant upon current culture or stereotypes that change over time, as well as varying individual perceptions of what constitutes coding. Additionally, having a racist caricature in anthropomorphic form being tagged black_coded would be a Bad Idea (TM).

I recommend moving this to the invalid tag category instead and leaving our own cultural, subjective, unstated-and-viewer-assumed labels out of the tag system.

donovan_dmc said:
This just sounds like an outlet for stereotyping and racism

song said:
I don't think this tag is a good idea in general for all of the reasons listed in the linked discussion thread and more.

While an artist or commissioner could give a more word-of-the-author source (similar to gender based on non-visible characteristics), this is typically not stated anywhere and is reliant upon current culture or stereotypes that change over time, as well as varying individual perceptions of what constitutes coding. Additionally, having a racist caricature in anthropomorphic form being tagged black_coded would be a Bad Idea (TM).

I recommend moving this to the invalid tag category instead and leaving our own cultural, subjective, unstated-and-viewer-assumed labels out of the tag system.

Tbh this reads as a bit too cynical for me. There's a difference between a racist caricature and a character being coded as a given culture. At minimum, invalid is a step too far; outright blocking people for looking for unique characteristics just because it could be abused punishes the good actors for no good reason.

Keep in mind that the rules surrounding lore tags are much stricter than for general tags, so turning it into lore would keep spurious tagging to a minimum.

I don't think this is an inherently bad tag or inherently not twys. There ARE certain combinations of traits and aesthetics that artists use to racially 'code' characters. Acknowledging that isn't inherently racist or stereotyping. 'Coding' is also frequently used by black artists. If a 'coded' image crosses the line into racial caricature, well there's a racial_caricature tag for that reason. Some of the images in black_coded could probably use that tag.

That said, the wiki's examples are largely not twys.

I can see the appeal of such a tag, but it should probably be a set instead.

Reposting my thoughts here from discussion elsewhere.

Some characters straight up *do* present in overtly racial ways, like I said with the Parappa examples in the forum thread currently being cited from that BUR, but I do still maintain that it would be preferable to have the actual features tagged.
Verified artist of post #5226992 added black_coded on upload, that's basically a statement of lore, but *also* there's a light-skinned alt pair from them so seemingly the only coding is the *color palette* with no other changes. Doesn't seem like a strong candidate for the *general* tag category.
Other verified artists using the tag as-is include awesomemazda04, kailewds has *other* examples that are a bit more involved than just a palette swap, jackrabbit, and ribr0t. Those are *straight up* declarations of artistic intent (lore, in other words) from the artists.

I'd also presume there are a lot of examples of C/J/K racial coding when it comes to multi-tailed foxes and similar, but again, if we're finding those kinds of posts there are probably actual features we can tag.
You could probably find even more still if it comes to characters who are explicitly british, explicitly irish, etc.

is there any possible chain of implications that would achieve something similar when characters are wearing detailed dreads/afros, are wearing rasta dress, when a *furry* has black skin vs. a human having it, etc.? making the specific features taggable and then having some vague umbrella tag that points to several of those at once.

While I'm not a cynic myself, I do disagree over this tag even existing to begin with. It's not TWYS at all times, as it does require context of artist intent, but it also doesn't completely make sense as a lore tag. Also, why is there only black_coded? While that is a more common "coding" for characters, it does seem a bit weird that such a broad statement can be made as if all black people are the same. This comment, of course, is less to do with this tag in particular, but grouping cultural aspects under just one tag sounds like a great way to get disambiguation involved.

I concur with Song on this one.

This idea of a character being coded is too subjective as a tag. It only makes sense if you already know what to look for or have the full context in most cases.
Most of the "black" furries I've seen on this site didn't even click as being coded until I saw some sort of racial aspect(tattoos, dialogue, etc) or I looked at the artist's social media.

stereotypes and assumed qualities of a race or ethnic culture do not belong in the lore tag category.

Also this tag is very open to abuse as well as being pointless in a similar manner to other invalided tags such as pedophile, slutty and mary sue

I think this kind of tag only works as a lore tag to avoid abuse and viewer prejudice

What would we mean by "black coding"? Would it apply to Indigenous Australians? Southeast Asians? Other non-Africans? Or just Africans and those descended from them?

If this last, which ethnic group(s)? Somalian? Zulu? Pygmy? Any one or all of I don't know how many others?

If just those of African descent, do you mean current or historical attitudes towards them in the US? Haiti? Other Caribbean islands? Europe? By today's standards? The standards of the time the art was created?

Will we be adding in other color codings? Or will we split them up into things like Chinese_coding, Japanese_coding, Navajo_coding?

I'm for aliasing to invalid_tag. Not only is the tag ripe for abuse, but it's just too broad of a concept to be useful.

clawstripe said:
What would we mean by "black coding"? Would it apply to Indigenous Australians? Southeast Asians? Other non-Africans? Or just Africans and those descended from them?

If this last, which ethnic group(s)? Somalian? Zulu? Pygmy? Any one or all of I don't know how many others?

If just those of African descent, do you mean current or historical attitudes towards them in the US? Haiti? Other Caribbean islands? Europe? By today's standards? The standards of the time the art was created?

Will we be adding in other color codings? Or will we split them up into things like Chinese_coding, Japanese_coding, Navajo_coding?

I'm for aliasing to invalid_tag. Not only is the tag ripe for abuse, but it's just too broad of a concept to be useful.

Just Black. Not an ethnicity but just the overall skin color experience

nin10dope said:
Just Black. Not an ethnicity but just the overall skin color experience

Except how do you lump so many distinct ethnicities and cultures together with one label? I’m assuming black coding here is comparable more to African American, but there are many types of black and African identities, to lump them all together seems strange and incorrect. As well as the fact that as clawstrioe there are many ethnicities that have darker skin tones who are not in any way African American or African. To lump basically all dark skinned people into one unclear tag type just seems wrong.

The bulk update request #11337 is pending approval.

create alias black_coded (139) -> invalid_tag (2)

Reason: As suggested.

solluna said:

While it can be used for actually black-coded characters like Wilt from Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends who was based on black people when being made, I have a feeling people would use it way more to erroneously claim characters as black beyond fan-interpretation—like Darwin Watterson because of fan human designs or Piccolo Jr. from Dragon Ball because... well, your guess is as good as mine—maybe because Chris Sabat has a deep voice.

The wiki for black_coded already does this lol

manitka said:
Except how do you lump so many distinct ethnicities and cultures together with one label? I’m assuming black coding here is comparable more to African American, but there are many types of black and African identities, to lump them all together seems strange and incorrect. As well as the fact that as clawstripe there are many ethnicities that have darker skin tones who are not in any way African American or African. To lump basically all dark skinned people into one unclear tag type just seems wrong.

My first instinct for that reply was to just say African American, but I wanted to contrast the "which country/culture" questions with the more generalized identity.

popoto said:
The wiki for black_coded already does this lol

Yes, that's what the phrase is for by design, to claim characters with no real-world mirror as black.