Topic: Posts removed despite having pages of results already

Posted under General

Nin10dope

Member

user_2208003 said:
https://e621.net/posts/5510406
https://e621.net/posts/5504634
https://e621.net/posts/5504576
https://e621.net/posts/5488341
Why were the following posts removed? None feature solely human characters like the rule that was cited states and there are plenty of posts featuring the same characters. It is the same janitor removing them. Are these characters disallowed? I just feel that the rules should be applied fairly and evenly.

Go to that Janitor's profile and send them a message asking them directly, don't make a forum post about it.

Nin10dope

Member

In their questionably deserved defense, the posts were arguably wrongfully terminated
It looks like Jenny the Teenage Robot is allowed on this site considering she's a full on bobot

slyroon

Former Staff

For anyone curious, it was just a bunch of posts of Jenny from My Life as a Teenage Robot where she looks way more human than robot.
Also a single Splatoon character where you couldn't see any inhuman features.

Nin10dope

Member

I mean I looked at em all from the source
The only real incriminating detail was she has human feet (which was the central theme of the artist it looks like) instead of her boot-shaped whatever you wanna call em

dba afish

Member

slyroon said:
For anyone curious, it was just a bunch of posts of Jenny from My Life as a Teenage Robot where she looks way more human than robot.
Also a single Splatoon character where you couldn't see any inhuman features.

I dunno, most humans I know don't have screws where their bellybutton should be.

slyroon

Former Staff

dba_afish said:
I dunno, most humans I know don't have screws where their bellybutton should be.

Things like that are usually just seen as an unusual belly button piercing or similar jewelry, depending on how they're depicted.

It's like how real people rarely glue or embed gems on or in their bodies.
But a gem by itself is not enough to visually indicate that someone is an alien, like with most Steven Universe characters.
For e621 relevance purposes.

Nin10dope

Member

I would point to the the two metal "ponytails" or whatever her pseudo hair pieces are being almost entirely connected to her head by bolts

slyroon

Former Staff

nin10dope said:
I would point to the the two metal "ponytails" or whatever her pseudo hair pieces are being almost entirely connected to her head by bolts

Their hair just looks like cartoony blue hair to me; it doesn't come off as metallic to me.
Those bolts can be seen as custom hairpins. Also, they don’t look connected so much as they appear to be mimicking the original minimalistic design style, in their own more detailed style.
Many characters from the original series have weird, angular hair; that was a common trope of the time.
But that doesn’t make Jenny inhuman in appearance, at least for e621 relevancy purposes, in the posts in question.

But by all intents and purposes, feel free to ask abadbird.
I'm just sharing what I think the reason was that abadbird had for deleting those images.
He might be able to give you a more satisfactory explanation than I have.

Clawstripe

Janitor

user_2208003 said:
https://e621.net/posts/5510406
https://e621.net/posts/5504634
https://e621.net/posts/5504576
https://e621.net/posts/5488341
Why were the following posts removed? None feature solely human characters like the rule that was cited states and there are plenty of posts featuring the same characters. It is the same janitor removing them. Are these characters disallowed? I just feel that the rules should be applied fairly and evenly.

Remember, we go by TWYS (Tag What You See), regardless of what the lore is. It's what gets some Pokémon (for example) deleted despite their not being human lore-wise. Yes, with a lot of these borderline characters, it's a huge pain to decide. Basically, if they're nonhuman, they need to look the part. Yes, sometimes, we have to split hairs and a big part of the job is figuring out where to split them. It ain't easy sometimes.

Jenny the Teenaged Robot looks very human even on-model. Taking into account the simplicity of the show's style, it's often impossible to differentiate those pigtails (for example) as metal plates rather than hair. Lack of nose doesn't count nor funky skin colors. For the Splatoon character, the relevant non-human parts (the tentacle hair) are hidden from view, so she looks just like a human.

Let's be brutally honest. Uploaders post borderline humanoids at their own risk.

abadbird

Janitor

Copypasted from a DMail from last November

The uploading guidelines#humans specifically say we want posts with anatomical deviation from humans and that body color doesn't matter. Making body parts impossibly large or small for a human or removing some features usually doesn't count. The human-shaped anatomy is still there, just differently shaped or stylistically altered. So we want to see extra anatomy that humans do not have at all, like animal ears, a tail, paws, wings, a snout, horse penis as you mentioned, and so on. We want to be convinced these parts are anatomy and not accessories (e.g., cat-eared headwear).

The posts that don't have this extra anatomy are the tricky ones that I usually stare at for a minute or longer trying to find something that's just too wrong for a human. For robots, I look for gaps in their bodies that humans don't have, particularly around their joints, and many other small details. I've approved a 3D robot model for having a segmented tongue that humans don't have.

Jenny Wakeman examples

post #5161838 - approved for her on-model circular palms sticking out in a way that human palms don't
post #5152859 - approved for the spinning sawblade tongue
post #5151294 - again, the palm
post #5110440 - handles on her thighs and shoe-shaped feet that are bolted on
post #5092430 - her "skirt" has a flat bottom that is a part of her body and not clothing, vaguely shoe-shaped feet
post #4988991 - while having a normal-looking body with depth, her "hair" attached to the screws is completely flat. this is not a thing found on humans, but I usually avoid approving for the hair screws or flat hair. in this post, it's like a mix of styles, "3D + 2D," where the 3D body makes the hair 3D and just too wrong for a human. I approve for this at my discretion.
post #4966624 - good example of approvable robot joints and shows her mechanical insides
post #4964836 - hands with fingers yet feet with no toes. also her navel screw is a bit more nonhuman than normal. both of these things I will selectively approve for.
post #4958009 - her navel screw has popped out and her groin seems detached from her torso. good example of an unusual robot "gap" that I approve for
post #4958008 - 3D body with 2D hair, again. a better look at this than the other post, and the hair screws are more convincing as anatomy than these other examples
post #4907459 - she has no feet, her legs just end, and we can see this well enough to know that this isn't just a style choice and that a human couldn't "wear" her legs over their own as "armor"/"cosplay". the lack of feet just wouldn't work on a human.

That's a pretty good mix of obscure, approver-minded body quirks that are not furry but still approvable. This is the shit I look for.

I probably give less value to the circular palms today. Too much of a cop-out.

https://e621.net/posts/5510406
https://e621.net/posts/5504634
https://e621.net/posts/5504576
https://e621.net/posts/5488341

These posts are pretty weak, anatomically. The hand in the second one is interesting but poorly visible.

I pretty much will not consider Jenny's flat hair anatomically significant if it's perfectly flat to the viewer, lacking any depth. The hair screws imitate hair fasteners far too well. The cheek thing is nothing to me. I'm probably not approving for a circle with a line through it (the navel screw). Too insignificant. All these features are easily dismissed as style decisions. I do not approve robots for having extra lines across body parts. That would be on par with approving for body markings, which I also do not do. That is not anatomy.

Inklings I want to see suckers on their hair or pointy ears. That's all they have to offer. We actually get a lot of well done inkling posts, so I've also let through a few posts for the hair looking like cut cartilage around the forehead, completely at my discretion and much more easily deleted.

In general, more detailed posts give themselves more opportunity to present a convincing nonhuman interpretation. Jenny posts often skew toward the simple cartoon style of the show, so they do not get as much opportunity. Really, I want to see that artists have thought about a character's nonhuman-ness and tried to accentuate that interpretation with careful supporting details. Perhaps, you could say that's the difference between drawing a Jenny and Jenny the robot.

Now to sound off. I have been doing this for almost a year. I have deleted many posts and approved far more borderline posts that I could easily see hitting automod deletion out of deadlock. As a result, I get a lot of appeals, but actually not usually as many as that might sound like. I would say at most 10 appeals have said anything of substance (with 3 overturned decisions?), and this one did not increase that number, not the OP nor the DMail.

If you haven't put yourself in the position where "this is what I do now" where you're making these decisions and are expected to tell users no, then you're just at an extreme disadvantage when judging relevancy. I put a good bit of effort into answering those DMails, and in almost every case my time would have been of greater benefit to the site doing anything else. The upside is I get to sharpen my rhetoric and reasoning. I am answering the thread (I do not check the forums or mentions) because that can benefit the site more than the standard DMail appeal.

Nin10dope

Member

abadbird said:
Copypasted from a DMail from last November...

Honestly kudos for such a lengthy and thorough reply, my man
It's nice to broaden my ideas of what's permissible