The bulk update request #10851 is pending approval.

create implication top_turned_bottom (63) -> role_reversal (2304)
create implication bottom_turned_top (2) -> role_reversal (2304)
create alias dom_turn_sub (113) -> dom_turned_sub (0)
create alias domination_loss (36) -> dom_turned_sub (0)
create implication dom_turned_sub (0) -> role_reversal (2304)
create implication dom_turned_sub (0) -> submissive (152504)
create alias sub_turn_dom (5) -> sub_turned_dom (0)
create alias submissive_turned_dominant (2) -> sub_turned_dom (0)
create implication sub_turned_dom (0) -> role_reversal (2304)
create implication sub_turned_dom (0) -> dominant (169719)

Reason: Tell me if I missed any.

The dom_turn_sub alias is for wording consistency with top_turned_bottom.

Huh, I'm not very familiar with the role_reversal tag. It does sound pretty vague, and at a quick glance, it's not always clear to me why the tag is added to some posts. If we want to keep all these tags, logically bottom_turned_top and sub_turn_dom should be added to the BUR too. My first thought when seeing this BUR was dominant_in_chastity, but I'm not sure if that should be included.

I'm not fond of these tags since they don't seem to fit TWYS very well. How do you know someone is a dom turned sub? If someone's submissive, being restrained or acting against their will, you can't see they're a dom, that they're the one to restrain or force others. At best, it can work in a sequence where a character visibly starts as one and becomes the other in one page, but that's not how these are being used for the most part (along with the common misuse of dom/sub tags). They rely a bit too much on dialog or external knowledge to my liking, with some ignoring the fact that switches exist.

crocogator said:
If we want to keep all these tags, logically bottom_turned_top and sub_turn_dom should be added to the BUR too.

Didn't know those existed. Added.

watsit said:
I'm not fond of these tags since they don't seem to fit TWYS very well. How do you know someone is a dom turned sub? If someone's submissive, being restrained or acting against their will, you can't see they're a dom, that they're the one to restrain or force others. At best, it can work in a sequence where a character visibly starts as one and becomes the other in one page, but that's not how these are being used for the most part (along with the common misuse of dom/sub tags). They rely a bit too much on dialog or external knowledge to my liking, with some ignoring the fact that switches exist.

The highlighted examples on the wiki page do demonstrate the reversal within the same image, so it does have a valid use case. It is clearly a real fetish, so I think it's valid to keep it around in some form, even if it's a niche tag.

We do also have a power_bottom_(lore) tag, though it's not currently used by any posts. I personally find that questionable and I know there's very strong resistance to creating new lore tags, but we could make similar tags for role reversal scenarios that are based on context from a sequence (such as post #4784837). There are also some that are tagged based on description alone, such as post #5452727.

I'll try combing through the posts to remove any that don't follow TWYS. UPDATE: Done for top_turned_bottom, there are still ~40 posts I think clearly justify the tag within the post itself.

UPDATE: Apparently we also have a dominant_submissive tag. I have no idea what that's supposed to mean.

watsit said:
I'm not fond of these tags since they don't seem to fit TWYS very well. How do you know someone is a dom turned sub? If someone's submissive, being restrained or acting against their will, you can't see they're a dom, that they're the one to restrain or force others. At best, it can work in a sequence where a character visibly starts as one and becomes the other in one page, but that's not how these are being used for the most part (along with the common misuse of dom/sub tags). They rely a bit too much on dialog or external knowledge to my liking, with some ignoring the fact that switches exist.

It's one of the situational kinks people love on this site that you're gonna have to live with

beholding said:
UPDATE: Apparently we also have a dominant_submissive tag. I have no idea what that's supposed to mean.

Just checked and it's just one of those tags that somebody created on their own with no explanation and a few people copied it. Only 23 posts use it so it should be an easy cleanup. I don't know how you'd make a BUR to alias one tag into two tags though, because it's just someone who combined dominant and submissive into one.

The bulk update request #10865 is pending approval.

create alias dominant_submissive (0) -> invalid_tag (3)

Reason: Yeah, the tag appears to just mean "has BDSM elements" or, at most, power_bottom. It should be invalidated.

Good grief, I just keep finding more of these. domination_loss is now added to the BUR to be aliased to dom_turned_sub.

beholding said:
The bulk update request #10865 is pending approval.

create alias dominant_submissive (0) -> invalid_tag (3)

Reason: Yeah, the tag appears to just mean "has BDSM elements" or, at most, power_bottom. It should be invalidated.

majority of uses are by one person and it has not been used once in the last month, and only twice in the last 6 months
No alias should really be needed here, just clear the tag out and leave it be

Just found another one: turning_the_tables. It's only used in 30 posts. Should it be aliased to role_reversal?

beholding said:
Just found another one: turning_the_tables. It's only used in 30 posts. Should it be aliased to role_reversal?

I like the idea of this one for things that are playing with cliches or 'typical' dynamics (e.g. post #1081334, a dog walking a human, a deer hunting a hunter), something that's slightly more specific that just role_reversal.
Unfortunately the tag is full of stuff that doesn't even have clear role reversal. What roles or dynamics are being played with in post #214731? I certainly can't tell you because I have no idea who these characters are and we aren't given any clues about how they normally interact.

donovan_dmc said:
majority of uses are by one person and it has not been used once in the last month, and only twice in the last 6 months
No alias should really be needed here, just clear the tag out and leave it be

Thank you for repeating me.

regsmutt said:
I like the idea of this one for things that are playing with cliches or 'typical' dynamics (e.g. post #1081334, a dog walking a human, a deer hunting a hunter), something that's slightly more specific that just role_reversal.

I feel like "role reversal" could reasonably describe all three of those. If it has a use case separate from role reversal, I'd say it's in situations where one character appears to have the upper hand but then ends up losing. A lot of the posts currently in dom_turn_sub (such as such as post #2908476) depict situations that are better described as "turning the tables" than "dom becomes sub".

beholding said:
I feel like "role reversal" could reasonably describe all three of those. If it has a use case separate from role reversal, I'd say it's in situations where one character appears to have the upper hand but then ends up losing. A lot of the posts currently in dom_turn_sub (such as such as post #2908476) depict situations that are better described as "turning the tables" than "dom becomes sub".

Role_reversal should be the umbrella tag that encompasses the others

nin10dope said:
Thank you for repeating me.

I'm not sure why you're being passive aggressive about it, I didn't read the rest of the topic because I just came here for the BUR

nin10dope said:
Role_reversal should be the umbrella tag that encompasses the others

The question is if turning_the_tables should remain as its own tag or be aliased to role_reversal.

beholding said:
The question is if turning_the_tables should remain as its own tag or be aliased to role_reversal.

Thinking about it, I think they're fine to remain separated. Turning_the_Tables is a more active situation since it's basically a verb. Role_Reversal is more about the context of user expectations typically, as well as a noun.