Topic: Tag implication: bunny_raven -> teen_titans_(television_series)

Posted under Tag Alias and Implication Suggestions

Siral Exan

Privileged

donovan_dmc said:
Is this a distinct version of the character (i.e. different species) or an outfit? If it's the first it really shouldn't imply the original raven (e.g. link/link (wolf form)/link (rabbit form)), if it's the latter it should be aliased

The implication to the original raven is quite old, so the logic around alternate forms might have been different then
implication #2633
topic #6041

in one of the episodes of the animated series, Raven gets turned into a bunny. so this is akin to Wolf Link than a costume, and unlike Beast Boy she can't normally turn into one. how do we handle characters who can shapeshift, but prefer using certain forms like Martian Manhunter and his human "disguise"?

dba afish

Member

donovan_dmc said:
Is this a distinct version of the character (i.e. different species) or an outfit? If it's the first it really shouldn't imply the original raven (e.g. link/link (wolf form)/link (rabbit form)), if it's the latter it should be aliased

The implication to the original raven is quite old, so the logic around alternate forms might have been different then
implication #2633
topic #6041

honestly, honestly? I still don't really get not implying distinct forms back to the base character to me the only thing that this does is just mess with statistics, I mean, stuff like this is what caused princess_twilight_sparkle to get entirely aliased away. it dosn't matter if he's a wolf or a deku_scrub or a hylian, a Link is a Link (although, that being said, also not a huge fan of having nearly every incarnation of Link under one tag, but that's an entirely separate problem).

I've heard people argue that because it'd square_crossover cause problems, but like, would it really? all it's gonna mean is that searches like link square_crossover are going to have some instances of bunny link and wolf link together, in those cases you can just minus those characters' tags or add hylian.

but also, we already don't do this for unofficial alt forms so it's this weird inconsistency.
why is post #4772496 bowser but post #2240371 isn't? this just does not make sense to me. like, if I's searching up bowser I'd personally expect to see all of the posts with bowser in, not have meowser and fury_bowser excluded for some arbitrary reason; it's the same dude.

Donovan DMC

Former Staff

dba_afish said:
honestly, honestly? I still don't really get not implying distinct forms back to the base character to me the only thing that this does is just mess with statistics, I mean, stuff like this is what caused princess_twilight_sparkle to get entirely aliased away. it dosn't matter if he's a wolf or a deku_scrub or a hylian, a Link is a Link (although, that being said, also not a huge fan of having nearly every incarnation of Link under one tag, but that's an entirely separate problem).

I've heard people argue that because it'd square_crossover cause problems, but like, would it really? all it's gonna mean is that searches like link square_crossover are going to have some instances of bunny link and wolf link together, in those cases you can just minus those characters' tags or add hylian.

but also, we already don't do this for unofficial alt forms so it's this weird inconsistency.
why is post #4772496 bowser but post #2240371 isn't? this just does not make sense to me. like, if I's searching up bowser I'd personally expect to see all of the posts with bowser in, not have meowser and fury_bowser excluded for some arbitrary reason; it's the same dude.

Has bowsette ever been officially recognized? If not this is just unofficial crossgender vs official alternate species, one being the same character and the other being tagged differently makes sense to me
We don't want a tag for every alternate thing people can create for a character

Leafdapple

Member

donovan_dmc said:
Has bowsette ever been officially recognized? If not this is just unofficial crossgender vs official alternate species, one being the same character and the other being tagged differently makes sense to me
We don't want a tag for every alternate thing people can create for a character

Should Moushley be a character tag? It's an unofficial, alternate species version of Ashley Graham.

dba afish

Member

donovan_dmc said:
Has bowsette ever been officially recognized? If not this is just unofficial crossgender vs official alternate species, one being the same character and the other being tagged differently makes sense to me
We don't want a tag for every alternate thing people can create for a character

okay... that's not really related to any point I was trying to make. I wasn't asking why we tag unofficial forms like Bowsette with the main character tag, I was asking if there was any logical reason why we shouldn't tag official forms with the main character tag.

I mean, if we keep doing things like, besides it being, honestly kinda just confusing and annoying in the short-term, in the long term we're inevitably going to have another judy_hopps vs. twilight_sparkle snafu again.

spe

Admin

I have said before that I would prefer to have all canon alternate forms of a character imply a base character tag. Mass updating the current base tag to a character_(normal_form) tag would solve any potential issues of not being able to search for square crossovers. I think we eventually will need to do this because:
1. Users mistag characters like this all the time. This is simply not intuitive to the average user. See asriel_dreemurr asriel_dreemurr_(god_form) -square_crossover for a great example of that.
2. It’s very likely that the average user searching for a character wants to see any form of that character. Having to ~ a bunch of different forms to get them all in a single search is also very unintuitive and inconvenient.

but also, like, changing all these tags would be a big project to undertake

Side note: moushley gets to exist because it has attained meme status, like bowsette.

Donovan DMC

Former Staff

spe said:
Side note: moushley gets to exist because it has attained meme status, like bowsette.

Yet bowsette has been aliased to a tag making it clear it's a meme: bowsette meme
The moushley tag existing is not the problem, it being a character tag is

There's a BUR in topic #37870 to change that which has been pending for so long it has a BTR now

side note: why is the bowsette tag "bowsette_meme" and not "bowsette_(meme)"

Watsit

Privileged

dba_afish said:
honestly, honestly? I still don't really get not implying distinct forms back to the base character to me the only thing that this does is just mess with statistics, I mean, stuff like this is what caused princess_twilight_sparkle to get entirely aliased away. it dosn't matter if he's a wolf or a deku_scrub or a hylian, a Link is a Link (although, that being said, also not a huge fan of having nearly every incarnation of Link under one tag, but that's an entirely separate problem).

Except the base character tag is often its own distinct form. In the case of link, that tag is specifically his original/hylian/elf/humanoid form. Having link_(wolf_form) imply link would be like having link_(rabbit_form) imply link_(wolf_form). The wolf form is no more his humanoid form than his rabbit form is his wolf form. Changing link to be for all forms would create confusion for people that want to look for or blacklist the humanoid form as there would be no tag for it. Same goes for species like charizard, which is its own distinct form separate from mega_charizard_x, mega_charizard_y, and gigantamax_charizard. People searching charizard to see the base form would be no more happy of getting results for the mega forms without the original, than someone searching mega_charizard_x wants results that only have gigantamax_charizard. And if you want to be able to search for posts with the original and one or more other forms, you'd be out of luck.

The only time this works is when the base tag isn't a distinct form, where it's basically impossible to have a character/species tagged as just the base form and not a specific one. But for most of the popular character/species tags where the character/species has multiple forms and the original form is just the original name, people are too used to just tagging the base name for the original, so wouldn't properly use a new tag for the original.

dba afish

Member

spe said:
I have said before that I would prefer to have all canon alternate forms of a character imply a base character tag. Mass updating the current base tag to a character_(normal_form) tag would solve any potential issues of not being able to search for square crossovers.

I mean, I'm not even super sure a base-form tag is necessary, I'd honestly be fine with just "minus out the ones you don't want". but also like, is an unofficial alt form like Bowsette considered a version of a character's "base form"? because, if not, then a mupdate would be pretty much entirely out of the question, for any character ever.

I feel like the only time something like a *_(base_form) would be all that useful would be characters that are more often than not depicted as a non-base form (on here), characters like ben_tennyson (whose current tag is kinda, uhh... fucked, in my opinion). but for characters like Bowser or one of the Links, who are depicted as base upwards of 75% of the time, it just seems kinda unnecessary.