Why was all of Oddscreen's art deleted? The reason says it's because it was AI generated. Can someone show evidence of that claim? I liked his style and was sad to see it all gone.

aomikan said:
Why was all of Oddscreen's art deleted? The reason says it's because it was AI generated. Can someone show evidence of that claim? I liked his style and was sad to see it all gone.

Okay I looked into it more. Looks like it's a targeted harassment campaign and the e621 mods are taking the harasser at their word rather than doing their own due diligence. Par for the course, I guess.

aomikan said:
Okay I looked into it more. Looks like it's a targeted harassment campaign and the e621 mods are taking the harasser at their word rather than doing their own due diligence. Par for the course, I guess.

Can you show some evidence on part of your claim?

thegreatwolfgang said:
Can you show some evidence on part of your claim?

Kind of hard to prove a negative. Also didn't think we did a "guilty until proven innocent" thing here.

But here's Oddscreen's Inkbunny journal explaining the situation:
https://inkbunny.net/j/546137-Oddscreen-this-is-intimidating

Also mentioning the harassers going after him here on e621:
https://inkbunny.net/j/546555-Oddscreen-this-is-the-way

It would be nice if we didn't allow bullies to chase yet another talented artist off the internet.

The staff don't just go off of the words from some random, ai accusations are brought up and discussed with the rest of the team unless they are especially egregious
Considering the person that deleted the posts cannot also handle tickets, I'd wager this was brought up with the team, decided on, and that person decided to do the deletions

Either way this isn't a case of someone whispering a few words and everything getting nuked with no checking whatsoever

If there is harassment going on in dmails or otherwise, the person being harassed needs to report that for it to be handled, complaining elsewhere isn't going to get that handled

You are also partially correct - it is not entirely "guilty until proven innocent", ai accusations are innocent until proven guilty until accusations are substantiated with evidence multiple staff agree upon, then the onus is on the artist to prove they aren't using ai
(which is very easy to prove by the way, just screenshot the layers of a piece and send it to the staff)

I didn’t know anyone was really talking about me on this, just got told about it. I sent an appeal for my first work that was took down but didn’t get a reply, so when a while later I checked and all my art was gone I just assumed that was that. I didn’t really push back cause I didn’t see the point (plus after those two starting things and going after me on Inkbunny, and then trying to on here…I sort of got exhausted about it.)

I’ll absolutely be okay with screenshotting my layers- it’s what I said so in the message in the first appeal.

Sorry, I sort of just thought I was being swept under the rug so I had just gave up.

Edit: How do I go about asking for an appeal? The first time I messaged the person who took down the first piece, I haven't gotten a reply so was that the wrong way?

oddscreen said:

I’ll absolutely be okay with screenshotting my layers- it’s what I said so in the message in the first appeal.

Sorry, I sort of just thought I was being swept under the rug so I had just gave up.

Please do so. There have been a few wild accusations about artists using AI. I'd hate to see anyone go because they couldn't get certain areas absolutely perfect

oddscreen said:
I didn’t know anyone was really talking about me on this, just got told about it.

I'm so glad you saw this. I was worried you'd given up and we'd lose yet another great artist to bullies. I hope this gets taken care of and your art is restored.

aomikan said:
I'm so glad you saw this. I was worried you'd given up and we'd lose yet another great artist to bullies. I hope this gets taken care of and your art is restored.

I'm really just waiting for any responses, I don't really know how this all works, but I don't wanna pester any admins or mods over this and annoy them. :/

oddscreen said:
I'm really just waiting for any responses, I don't really know how this all works, but I don't wanna pester any admins or mods over this and annoy them. :/

Getting the attention of the staff is one of the best ways to get this resolved.

@furrypickle send help

snpthecat said:
Getting the attention of the staff is one of the best ways to get this resolved.

@furrypickle send help

I've put in a question about it inside of our staff channels, so we'll probably discuss it a bit.

furrypickle said:
I've put in a question about it inside of our staff channels, so we'll probably discuss it a bit.

Thank you, anything info I can give to help clear this up I'll do my best to provide.

aomikan said:
Okay I looked into it more. Looks like it's a targeted harassment campaign and the e621 mods are taking the harasser at their word rather than doing their own due diligence. Par for the course, I guess.

I think getting some transparency into administrative decisions would do a lot of good for everyone.

Been seeing way too many ai accusations, especially on other platforms, it has kind of become the new way of harrassing artists and there is a certain subset which just accept these accusations without a second thought. Would be kind of happy if there was a blanket rule against public accusations, whether valid or not.

deadoon said:
Been seeing way too many ai accusations, especially on other platforms, it has kind of become the new way of harrassing artists and there is a certain subset which just accept these accusations without a second thought. Would be kind of happy if there was a blanket rule against public accusations, whether valid or not.

Yeah, this does appear to be a growing troubling trend. Hero Hei addresses it in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYbaBK8i73Q

An artist should not have to "prove" they aren't using AI. The burden of proof is on the accuser. If that means some AI slips through the cracks, then them's the breaks.

@furrypickle Can we please get some attention on this from the admins? This has the potential to become a bigger problem effecting more than just Oddscreen, and the sooner it gets addressed the better.

aomikan said:
Yeah, this does appear to be a growing troubling trend. Hero Hei addresses it in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYbaBK8i73Q

An artist should not have to "prove" they aren't using AI. The burden of proof is on the accuser. If that means some AI slips through the cracks, then them's the breaks.

@furrypickle Can we please get some attention on this from the admins? This has the potential to become a bigger problem effecting more than just Oddscreen, and the sooner it gets addressed the better.

You still seem to be working on the idea that staff here just went with the word of an accuser and did absolutely no investigating
The accuser presumably provided some proof, then the staff did their own investigating
There is not a world in which no investigation happened and the artist was just tossed out the window

It also isn't going to "become a bigger problem", the staff here don't take ai accusations at face value
I literally was staff a few months ago, I have been part of ai investigations, multiple people are involved and everyone points out things and attempt to come up with plausible explanations
Deletions only go forward if multiple people agree there is no plausible explanation for some issue(s)
And even then the artist is only nuked entirely if a pattern of issues is found, else just the post(s) with issues would be deleted

They might work on top of anything provided by accusers, but anything they provide is not the sole proof used
In addition baseless accusations without proof are generally tossed out entirely to curb witch hunts and targeting

donovan_dmc said:
You still seem to be working on the idea that staff here just went with the word of an accuser and did absolutely no investigating
The accuser presumably provided some proof, then the staff did their own investigating
There is not a world in which no investigation happened and the artist was just tossed out the window

It also isn't going to "become a bigger problem", the staff here don't take ai accusations at face value
I literally was staff a few months ago, I have been part of ai investigations, multiple people are involved and everyone points out things and attempt to come up with plausible explanations
Deletions only go forward if multiple people agree there is no plausible explanation for some issue(s)
And even then the artist is only nuked entirely if a pattern of issues is found, else just the post(s) with issues would be deleted

They might work on top of anything provided by accusers, but anything they provide is not the sole proof used
In addition baseless accusations without proof are generally tossed out entirely to curb witch hunts and targeting

The accusations being in public alone are enough to cause witch hunts against artists, which is a huge problem. The public deletion reason claiming it is AI as well doesn't help the matter, as people will use that as "evidence" even if it is proven wrong in the future.

Edit: Doing a quick search for AI in comments finds a lot of accusations, and some vitrol and arguing about this as well. Edit2: even an argument and accusation going on for months now.

deadoon said:
The accusations being in public alone are enough to cause witch hunts against artists, which is a huge problem. The public deletion reason claiming it is AI as well doesn't help the matter, as people will use that as "evidence" even if it is proven wrong in the future.

Edit: Doing a quick search for AI in comments finds a lot of accusations, and some vitrol and arguing about this as well. Edit2: even an argument and accusation going on for months now.

There are thousands of active users on this site and something like 7 mods on a good day
Comments will go unhandled if no one reports them, the staff are not omnipotent
they do hide baseless ai accusations and hit people for disruptive behavior, but they also don't go looking for these things, that isn't worth anyone's time and would choke the community

donovan_dmc said:
There are thousands of active users on this site and something like 7 mods on a good day

And usually only 2 at any one time. Report said comments to bring the mods attention to it

So, should I just focus my attention elsewhere then? A genuine question, I just wanna know if there's really any point in me trying to appeal. It's honestly the principal of the matter, me not having my stuff labeled AI.

Putting forth effort and time to make something only to have it all mass deleted with no warning kind of bums someone out.

Again, if there's no point then I'm okay with leaving it at that.

I've said so before in separate channels, but things such as this happening are a large part of why I have stopped drawing for the furry community and only keep to myself nowadays.
If the largest furry platform on the internet is going to continue to cause problems for my visibility or my beliefs then I will choose not to use it, until things get better.

You're not alone in feeling that way, brother.

Okay so I'm going to preface this by acknowledging that we're only seeing part of the story here and staff are likely to be at a disadvantage due to what they can and can't divulge from private messages, but if events have happened roughly how things are laid out in this thread this is a bit ridiculous.

Oddscreen's art on Inkbunny isn't obvious AI like the typical crap out there, so my question is did staff really not try getting in contact with Oddscreen for some proof before nuking all their content? They have an e621 account, so that should have been easy.

Has Oddscreen's apparent message to staff 5 days ago really gone unanswered? Was Oddscreen's reply to furrypickle about any info they can provide to clear up the matter 4 days ago really ignored (as their recent post implies)?

If working towards resolving something like this is really as easy as Donovan suggests, why does it seem like Oddscreen has been left in the dark for a week?

As I prefaced, I understand that we're likely only seeing pieces of this situation and perhaps staff has been doing a lot more to resolve this than it shows, but it'd be kinda nice if someone would at least contact Oddscreen? (Or maybe they have and this is all just a big charade, I dunno)

aomikan said:
Why was all of Oddscreen's art deleted? The reason says it's because it was AI generated. Can someone show evidence of that claim? I liked his style and was sad to see it all gone.

There was a considerable amount of evidence over on Inkbunny with the majority of people agreeing that most recent works were generated or at least traced. Oddscreen was only ever asked to clarify their process and provide evidence of legitimate work so that things could be tagged properly, not removed. And rather than provide something like the layers of the suspicious works in question, they had a large amount of people try and bully the people that asked or questioned it. When a timelapse was posted afterward, it just seemed even more bizarre given the unnatural style of drawing that made it very clear to most people that it just appeared to be tracing over a hidden layer in clipart.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of those accounts, or even you, are just alt accounts of Oddscreen. Regardless, many of them have been extremely toxic to anyone voicing their suspicion and labeling them as "bullies" rather than just politely discuss or deal with the issue. The link above was also removed instead of ever actually being addressed, so that is nice as well.

I feel like you're either being intentionally malicious spreading misinformation about the situation or ignorant enough to just contribute to actual bullying.

vandalieu said:
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of those accounts, or even you, are just alt accounts of Oddscreen.

I doubt an account created 7 years before Oddscreen's account is their secret alt, that's one hell of a long con.

sylenial said:
I doubt an account created 7 years before Oddscreen's account is their secret alt, that's one hell of a long con.

It's a figure of speech to be verbose.

sylenial said:
As I prefaced, I understand that we're likely only seeing pieces of this situation and perhaps staff has been doing a lot more to resolve this than it shows, but it'd be kinda nice if someone would at least contact Oddscreen?

True. The discussion around the situation is somewhat meaningless and could have been resolved in private. I'd hope for an appeal process of any kind but that's somewhat wishful thinking. Staff already complains about being overloaded, supposedly.

vandalieu said:
There was a considerable amount of evidence over on Inkbunny

A screenshot of a bunch of links isn't substantial evidence.

vandalieu said:
There was a considerable amount of evidence over on Inkbunny with the majority of people agreeing that most recent works were generated or at least traced. Oddscreen was only ever asked to clarify their process and provide evidence of legitimate work so that things could be tagged properly, not removed. And rather than provide something like the layers of the suspicious works in question, they had a large amount of people try and bully the people that asked or questioned it. When a timelapse was posted afterward, it just seemed even more bizarre given the unnatural style of drawing that made it very clear to most people that it just appeared to be tracing over a hidden layer in clipart.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of those accounts, or even you, are just alt accounts of Oddscreen. Regardless, many of them have been extremely toxic to anyone voicing their suspicion and labeling them as "bullies" rather than just politely discuss or deal with the issue. The link above was also removed instead of ever actually being addressed, so that is nice as well.

I feel like you're either being intentionally malicious spreading misinformation about the situation or ignorant enough to just contribute to actual bullying.

I did not ask anyone to say anything, nor did I even want to respond to the two starting it all because that would make it worse with their attitudes. I am always willing to provide my layers. My "unnatural" style of drawing is because I'm an amateur who learned the bare minimum of basics and decided to skip a lot of those basics and jumped into advanced stuff instead of being smart and practicing said basics. When asked to provide said timelapse from one of the people on Inkbunny, I did so, they then refused to reply after that, which doesn't exactly scream "I want to resolve this peacefully". Afterwards they continued on until the mods stepped in and deleted their messages. That's when one of them came onto here and an admin deleted their messages because that is harassment, no two ways of looking at that.

Ironic that the person who only has one post on the site is accusing people of alts, but I don't want to start anything on that.

"I feel like you're either being intentionally malicious spreading misinformation about the situation or ignorant enough to just contribute to actual bullying".

aversioncapacitor' said:
True. The discussion around the situation is somewhat meaningless and could have been resolved in private. I'd hope for an appeal process of any kind but that's somewhat wishful thinking. Staff already complains about being overloaded, supposedly.

I wished it could have been private too. I was actually okay with the outcome as well. (It's really no big deal, I can always post elsewhere.) But some people let me know it was being talked about here, so I decided I'd ask about it a bit at the very least.

oddscreen said:
I did not ask anyone to say anything, nor did I even want to respond to the two starting it all because that would make it worse with their attitudes. I am always willing to provide my layers. My "unnatural" style of drawing is because I'm an amateur who learned the bare minimum of basics and decided to skip a lot of those basics and jumped into advanced stuff instead of being smart and practicing said basics. When asked to provide said timelapse from one of the people on Inkbunny, I did so, they then refused to reply after that, which doesn't exactly scream "I want to resolve this peacefully". Afterwards they continued on until the mods stepped in and deleted their messages. That's when one of them came onto here and an admin deleted their messages because that is harassment, no two ways of looking at that.

Ironic that the person who only has one post on the site is accusing people of alts, but I don't want to start anything on that.

"I feel like you're either being intentionally malicious spreading misinformation about the situation or ignorant enough to just contribute to actual bullying".

Yeah, I have the account to look at art. Not interact with people. You can see that by the account age. This behavior from you is exactly what I meant in that message. You're way more concerned about attacking others who are concerned about your work than actually proving anything about it. If you draw weird, that's fine. If you use Ai to help, that's also fine. Just be transparent about it. Literally everyone is wanting you to just post ANYTHING provable. No one but you is being mean or bullying about it. It looks incredibly weird that rather than just post layers of your previous works. You chose to just make excuses about why you don't want to or make post after post about 'The super bad mean people out to get you' when they don't even exist.

Kadm deleted their profile because they didn't want to make a decision on the matter, even after admitting that they also began to think the accusations were correct. The discussion was deleted because of that. Not because any mod did anything about it. If anything, it was specifically you that led to the mod quitting.

And again, maybe of just going with the classic "No YOU" and saying I'm an alt, when you clearly saw just how many people were questioning your art on IB. You just... prove it isn't ai assisted? That's literally just what everyone wants.

vandalieu said:
evidence

Wow, look, nothing.

there's not even anything that would imply that this is in refrence to this artist, lmao.

vandalieu said:
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of those accounts, or even you, are just alt accounts of Oddscreen. Regardless, many of them have been extremely toxic to anyone voicing their suspicion and labeling them as "bullies" rather than just politely discuss or deal with the issue. The link above was also removed instead of ever actually being addressed, so that is nice as well.

I feel like you're either being intentionally malicious spreading misinformation about the situation or ignorant enough to just contribute to actual bullying.

what the fuck are you talking about? the account you're referencing was created in 2016. how fucking deep-cover do you think somone is going to get to to defend their "traced AI art", my dude?

honestly, just from this incomprehensible conspiracy theory bullshit alone, I'm more inclined to believe that the art's genuine.

vandalieu said:
Yeah, I have the account to look at art. Not interact with people. You can see that by the account age. This behavior from you is exactly what I meant in that message. You're way more concerned about attacking others who are concerned about your work than actually proving anything about it. If you draw weird, that's fine. If you use Ai to help, that's also fine. Just be transparent about it. Literally everyone is wanting you to just post ANYTHING provable. No one but you is being mean or bullying about it. It looks incredibly weird that rather than just post layers of your previous works. You chose to just make excuses about why you don't want to or make post after post about 'The super bad mean people out to get you' when they don't even exist.

Kadm deleted their profile because they didn't want to make a decision on the matter, even after admitting that they also began to think the accusations were correct. The discussion was deleted because of that. Not because any mod did anything about it. If anything, it was specifically you that led to the mod quitting.

And again, maybe of just going with the classic "No YOU" and saying I'm an alt, when you clearly saw just how many people were questioning your art on IB. You just... prove it isn't ai assisted? That's literally just what everyone wants.

I have proved it. Multiple times. You don't want to believe proof. This is the problem. :|

Will Always Give When Asked

Edit: I'm embarrassed now. I don't know how to use imgur.

Double Edit: It should work now.

Double Double Edit: I skimmed through it but now I actually read this, are...you living in an alternative reality? I'll just quit responding to you now. Apparently, all I say, or show is excuses lol.

dba_afish said:
what the fuck are you talking about? the account you're referencing was created in 2016. how fucking deep-cover do you think somone is going to get to to defend their "traced AI art", my dude?

honestly, just from this incomprehensible conspiracy theory bullshit alone, I'm more inclined to believe that the art's genuine.

This is literally word for word what was just discussed and it's amazing that you contributed to it point for point. As stated, it's to be verbose in explaining how people will just completely ignore any evidence to specifically attack any concerns rather than actually discussing it. It's bot-like/alt behavior, hence why it was described to be similar to it. I'm not sure if you're just being edgy and acting exactly like that on purpose to be ironic, or just being a silly little guy.

vandalieu said:
This is literally word for word what was just discussed and it's amazing that you contributed to it point for point. As stated, it's to be verbose in explaining how people will just completely ignore any evidence to specifically attack any concerns rather than actually discussing it. It's bot-like/alt behavior, hence why it was described to be similar to it. I'm not sure if you're just being edgy and acting exactly like that on purpose to be ironic, or just being a silly little guy.

you're trolling.

oddscreen said:
I have proved it. Multiple times. You don't want to believe proof. This is the problem. :|

Will Always Give When Asked

The post has been removed sadly! Could you make a new one? Imgur will often delete NSFW posts even if private after a while.

vandalieu said:
The post has been removed sadly! Could you make a new one? Imgur will often delete NSFW posts even if private after a while.

Should work now.

oddscreen said:
I have proved it. Multiple times. You don't want to believe proof. This is the problem. :|

Will Always Give When Asked

Edit: I'm embarrassed now. I don't know how to use imgur.

Double Edit: It should work now.

These could probably work! Using noise filters like that could also explain why there are similar results to diffusion. Do you still have layers of works like the Tails or Nurse pieces? From what I understand, those were particularly more questionable. And it's possible that it may not be accepted if the pool is very limited to just a select few.

oddscreen said:
Should work now.

doesn't work, try imgbb maybe https://imgbb.com/ (ignore the subscriptions you dont need them, just the free upload at the top)

manitka said:
doesn't work, try imgbb maybe https://imgbb.com/ (ignore the subscriptions you dont need them, just the free upload at the top)

For some reason the link only works sporadically. Was fine for me the first time it was posted, and the "fixed" on the same link. Shortly said the page could not be found when clicking again, both times.

manitka said:
doesn't work, try imgbb maybe https://imgbb.com/ (ignore the subscriptions you dont need them, just the free upload at the top)

Says uploading it requires registration. :/

oddscreen said:
Says uploading it requires registration. :/

it doesn't. look at the big button that says start uploading and click it.

oddscreen said:
Double Double Edit: I skimmed through it but now I actually read this, are...you living in an alternative reality? I'll just quit responding to you now. Apparently, all I say, or show is excuses lol.

Bro, I am literally trying to help you. I've just said that these could even help a lot, I even pointed out things that could explain why your art is fine to people that think your art is traced or generated. But it does not look good if you just completely change your mind on a whim the moment that the most contentious piece gets asked for...

manitka said:
it doesn't. look at the big button that says start uploading and click it.

Does that work?

vandalieu said:
Bro, I am literally trying to help you. I've just said that these could even help a lot, I even pointed out things that could explain why your art is fine to people that think your art is traced or generated. But it does not look good if you just completely change your mind on a whim the moment that the most contentious piece gets asked for...

I can understand the frustrations you're feeling but try to keep in mind they just had all their content nuked from e621 with accusations of it being AI art (that apparently started over on Inkbunny) and have apparently been trying to get in contact with someone here to provide proof but nobody has responded to them for nearly a week(?) ... Their emotions are going to be strained at best.

oddscreen said:
Does that work?

It appears to be working

sylenial said:
I can understand the frustrations you're feeling but try to keep in mind they just had all their content nuked from e621 with accusations of it being AI art (that apparently started over on Inkbunny) and have apparently been trying to get in contact with someone here to provide proof but nobody has responded to them for nearly a week(?) ... Their emotions are going to be strained at best.

You're absolutely right, I'll just leave it at that then before we just upset each other. I appreciate you pointing that out~

I believe it started out as tracing but grew to full accusations of generation when there were diffusion artifacts and super weird details. Tracing is a lot harder to beat, but I hope them the best. I can already tell a lot of people may not be content with the amount of flattened images in the layers. But maybe with the sudden activity of the thread the mods will check through things and decide.

sylenial said:
I can understand the frustrations you're feeling but try to keep in mind they just had all their content nuked from e621 with accusations of it being AI art (that apparently started over on Inkbunny) and have apparently been trying to get in contact with someone here to provide proof but nobody has responded to them for nearly a week(?) ... Their emotions are going to be strained at best.

^

It also doesn't help that the best end explanation I can give is I got excited, rushed too much and made big improvements (with the advice of other artists telling me better ways of doing things, having people who know their stuff coach me was eye opening) but I also made silly small mistakes I should have noticed while doing the drawings cause of my rush. I'm always trying new things because of it.

Regardless how you feel about this controversy, it's getting pretty confusing and difficult to follow. It's happening spread across at least two different sites, Inkbunny and e621, and much of the dialogue between invested parties is either private or deleted. I'm not here to offer a summary, but as someone who's been following this from the start, here's where things stand.

Oddscreen, you've been posting works that have been generally well-received by others. That's a wonderful thing, to share something you've created and receive feedback, praise, and critique. Regrettably, after a while, some aspects of certain posts have drawn scrutiny from those who suspect you of using generative AI as part of your creative process without disclosing it. That's understandably frustrating, even aggravating. Cub artists have to put up with so much just for the chance to post their works at all, and for that to be taken away is terrible. It's impossible to blame you or others for defending against these seemingly targeted attacks. You offer proof; layers, timelapses, anything you can to get the attackers, the harassers, off your back. But nothing seems to convince them, and the attacks continue, unabated, wearing you down until you have no choice but to give up.

I'd like to offer some clarity to you and others on why it feels like the accusers are moving the goalposts. What are the people demanding proof actually asking for when they ask you for a timelapse, or your layers, or the contents of your CSP or PSD file? What actually qualifies as proof? There are two answers to that question. I'll start with what I believe the artists are looking for, then move on to the practical answer.

Artists want you to demonstrate your construction. They want to see how you sketched the pieces that, they feel, have evidence of AI assistance. They want to see how you moved from sketches to linework, the techniques you used to color and shade your pieces, and how you organize your workspace—steps that, if you were merely posting a lightly-edited or traced AI-generated piece, you would have skipped. They want to see how a human would come to draw the aspects of your work that they feel only a machine could create. Anyone can go into a CSP file and create some layers, but not everyone can sketch an anthropomorphic goat boy bending over. But, this is all very difficult to conclusively prove one way or the other. Timelapses can exclude layers, rough sketches can be made after the fact, and so on, in the same way the evidence against you could be cherry-picked and arbitrary. The people who believe you use AI assistance will be loathe to admit they were wrong, and the people who defend you will refuse to relent, regardless of what new evidence either side brings to the table. That's how this controversy played out on Inkbunny, and it's likely how it'll play out here, too.

So, the practical answer for what qualifies as proof is: It's up to the mods. The moderators of e6 will look at the evidence, make a judgement call, and either restore your artwork or leave it removed. We will likely never know the substance of their discussion, the evidence that sways them one way or the other, or their standard of proof. They're curators, not a court. I can't judge others for feeling skeptical and suspicious about a closed-door process, but if the mods were to come out and actively discuss this, they'd just stoke the fires of a flame war that would help no one.

It's an unenviable position, to be sure, for everyone involved.

laikakudryavka said:
Regardless how you feel about this controversy, it's getting pretty confusing and difficult to follow. It's happening spread across at least two different sites, Inkbunny and e621, and much of the dialogue between invested parties is either private or deleted. I'm not here to offer a summary, but as someone who's been following this from the start, here's where things stand.

Oddscreen, you've been posting works that have been generally well-received by others. That's a wonderful thing, to share something you've created and receive feedback, praise, and critique. Regrettably, after a while, some aspects of certain posts have drawn scrutiny from those who suspect you of using generative AI as part of your creative process without disclosing it. That's understandably frustrating, even aggravating. Cub artists have to put up with so much just for the chance to post their works at all, and for that to be taken away is terrible. It's impossible to blame you or others for defending against these seemingly targeted attacks. You offer proof; layers, timelapses, anything you can to get the attackers, the harassers, off your back. But nothing seems to convince them, and the attacks continue, unabated, wearing you down until you have no choice but to give up.

I'd like to offer some clarity to you and others on why it feels like the accusers are moving the goalposts. What are the people demanding proof actually asking for when they ask you for a timelapse, or your layers, or the contents of your CSP or PSD file? What actually qualifies as proof? There are two answers to that question. I'll start with what I believe the artists are looking for, then move on to the practical answer.

Artists want you to demonstrate your construction. They want to see how you sketched the pieces that, they feel, have evidence of AI assistance. They want to see how you moved from sketches to linework, the techniques you used to color and shade your pieces, and how you organize your workspace—steps that, if you were merely posting a lightly-edited or traced AI-generated piece, you would have skipped. They want to see how a human would come to draw the aspects of your work that they feel only a machine could create. Anyone can go into a CSP file and create some layers, but not everyone can sketch an anthropomorphic goat boy bending over. But, this is all very difficult to conclusively prove one way or the other. Timelapses can exclude layers, rough sketches can be made after the fact, and so on, in the same way the evidence against you could be cherry-picked and arbitrary. The people who believe you use AI assistance will be loathe to admit they were wrong, and the people who defend you will refuse to relent, regardless of what new evidence either side brings to the table. That's how this controversy played out on Inkbunny, and it's likely how it'll play out here, too.

So, the practical answer for what qualifies as proof is: It's up to the mods. The moderators of e6 will look at the evidence, make a judgement call, and either restore your artwork or leave it removed. We will likely never know the substance of their discussion, the evidence that sways them one way or the other, or their standard of proof. They're curators, not a court. I can't judge others for feeling skeptical and suspicious about a closed-door process, but if the mods were to come out and actively discuss this, they'd just stoke the fires of a flame war that would help no one.

It's an unenviable position, to be sure, for everyone involved.

Wow. I like how you summed all that up. :3

I literally can't add onto it any better than you explained it. I mean that, I'm trying to think of more to add but you stole all the words.

Honestly? It's silly but all of this has gotten me friends I wouldn't have previously had before, made me hyper analyze my art- see ways it can be improved in a "Oh I could have done this so much better" type of way. In this break of mine I've been even dabbling in animation work (In my head I think if I can do this it's true undeniable proof- knock on wood)

I guess I'm just saying it is what it is, but I'm optimistic. If this didn't happen, I'd still be rushing to meet deadlines for myself that weren't even there to begin with, making mistakes I could have avoided.

True, I DO want my art NOT labeled as AI lol but...again it is what it is.

We'll just have to see what happens.

oddscreen said:
Wow. I like how you summed all that up. :3

...

That's very kind of you to say, thank you. If you do return to Inkbunny post more pieces, I highly encourage you to post your construction as well—rough sketch, refined sketch, lines, and flat color alongside the fully shaded piece, as applicable and as you prefer. It might help ward off your detractors, but beyond that, seeing how a simple sketch turned into a full-fledged work of art is just plain fun. Best of luck on your creative journey!

laikakudryavka said:
That's very kind of you to say, thank you. If you do return to Inkbunny post more pieces, I highly encourage you to post your construction as well—rough sketch, refined sketch, lines, and flat color alongside the fully shaded piece, as applicable and as you prefer. It might help ward off your detractors, but beyond that, seeing how a simple sketch turned into a full-fledged work of art is just plain fun. Best of luck on your creative journey!

I might do that when I start up again, when being the keyword. I like art too much to bail on it forever...I'm just not good with drama. All of this attention surprised me. Doubly so when big artists even looked my way. ._.

donovan_dmc said:
There are thousands of active users on this site and something like 7 mods on a good day
Comments will go unhandled if no one reports them, the staff are not omnipotent
they do hide baseless ai accusations and hit people for disruptive behavior, but they also don't go looking for these things, that isn't worth anyone's time and would choke the community

One was even responded to by a janitor in the comments of the short look(which I realized based off of a commenter going fully unhinged on them). I'm not talking about baseless accusations, I'm talking accusations at all. I specifically said that.

Hi Oddscreen!

Sorry we didn't get back to you in a timely manner. Unfortunately, there is always loads of things to do.
When we discussed this topic, we looked at the available material and accusations, but ultimately decided that the art is likely to be AI assisted.

If you can provide us with more material of your creative process, we would be happy to revise our decision and potentially restore your artworks.
Feel free to contact me or any member of the staff directly via any method of contact mentioned on our profiles,
and we'll try to get you sorted out.

I believe this thread has otherwise reached a conclusion so I will call it here.
Thank you everyone!