The bulk update request #5616 is pending approval.
remove alias twink (0) -> femboy (166472)
Reason: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twink_(gay_slang)
while yes a lot of twinks are girly, not all of them are
Topic: unalias twink -> girly
Posted under Tag Alias and Implication Suggestions
I’m giving this a +1. Here’s why:
Girly (at least on e621) refers to male characters who appear more feminine than masculine. Very similar, if not identical, to femboys.
Twinks, on the other hand, is a more generalized term that may include ‘girly’ characters, but don’t necessarily have to be such. Twinks can also describe skinny/athletic men who look like adolescent boys (though still within legal age of consent).
If you ask me. I’d say unalias the two tags and then have girly imply twink.
The problem is that with anthropomorphic characters, the line between twink and girly is much more blurry than it is with humans. Unless you pretty much require crossdressing before you label a post "girly", it's a very subjective judgment call.
zenith-pendragon said:
Twinks, on the other hand, is a more generalized term that may include ‘girly’ characters, but don’t necessarily have to be such. Twinks can also describe skinny/athletic men who look like adolescent boys (though still within legal age of consent).
I think that's starting to split hairs. There may be some edge cases, but I feel there would be too few to be concerned about next to people using girly and twink interchangeably, resulting in girly characters only being tagged twink and vice-versa, causing people to need to use both when they want either. Also since we TWYS, a character that looks adolescent would be treated as such regardless of their "actual" age.
Twink is a character archtype rather than an observable trait. I don't think it should be aliased to girly, but rather than becoming it's own tag, I think it should be invalidated like how bimbo is.
Whatever gets done with the tag afterwards, the fact that femboy and twink are currently aliased to the same tag implies they mean the same thing, which they objectively do not.
Previous thread creating this alias: topic #31345
It was not a popular decision at the time either.
the definitions that people are using for "twink" of that I'm seeing in this thread and the one linked by wat, it's effectively an amalgam of athletic (sometimes), girly (mostly), slim (usually), and teenager (maybe) male/maleherm/andromorph characters.
to me it seems like the closest analogue is girly, or maybe slim but that tag is applicable to all genders, where as girly is exclusively for the three man-genders.
I'd like to reiterate that while "twink" and "girly" might be distinct concepts in the real world, with anthropomorphic characters things become a lot muddier. Facial features become a lot less important to masculinity and femininity, so I'm not sure how how you'd consistently tell the difference without requiring girly to include crossdressing.
vulpes_artifex said:
I'd like to reiterate that while "twink" and "girly" might be distinct concepts in the real world, with anthropomorphic characters things become a lot muddier. Facial features become a lot less important to masculinity and femininity, so I'm not sure how how you'd consistently tell the difference without requiring girly to include crossdressing.
There's no way the boundaries are sufficiently unclear that either of the characters in this post should full into the "girly" side of the divide:
girly doesn't necessarily require crossdressing, but the overall impression should be of an exaggerated, drag queen-esque caricature of Western femininity to be eligible for the tag. Think long hair, pink accessories, lipstick, that kind of thing. You know how, in classic anthro cartoons, you can usually tell the one female character apart because she's the only one who has human hair? That's basically how the concept of "girly" applies to anthros. It's an inherently human-centric concept, so any character designs intended to be interpreted as "femboys" are not going to lean too heavily into biological realism. I think your concerns about hypothetical girly ferals are severely overblown.
wat8548 said:
There's no way the boundaries are sufficiently unclear that either of the characters in this post should full into the "girly" side of the divide:
I mean, I'm not sure if I'd consider either of them them "twinks" either, so...
sipothac said:
I mean, I'm not sure if I'd consider either of them them "twinks" either, so...
It was probably intended to refer to the bottom one, judging by the size of the butt (and etymology of the word "twink"). This is also a good example of why I don't think the twink tag is valid on its own, which makes the fact that it is heavily polluting a popular valid tag even worse.
wat8548 said:
girly doesn't necessarily require crossdressing, but the overall impression should be of an exaggerated, drag queen-esque caricature of Western femininity to be eligible for the tag.
Nah, just someone who comes across as feminine, were it not for a visible cock/bulge/balls. It needn't be an exaggerated caricature, a male with a perfectly natural feminine body or face works too. I can see that green one being tagged girly. A bit on the edge of applicability perhaps, but not one I'd call foul over.
wat8548 said:
There's no way the boundaries are sufficiently unclear that either of the characters in this post should full into the "girly" side of the divide:I agree. neither character is twink, and definitely not girly.
what do you all think about an androgynous_male tag? the idea was brought up in topic #41299 and I thought it might be applicable to this situation. if I understand correctly, at least part the current problem is that we have no term for a male character whose build/body type fails to conform to any "masculine" standard but also dosn't swing far enough in the other direction to be considered girly. this tag would be kind of be that exact thing.
I think the term has more potential than twink since I still feel like "twink" has some terminological overlap with "girly" that "androgynous" wouldn't. I still have some potential misgivings that I voiced in the above linked thread, but it might be a decent tag.
sipothac said:
what do you all think about an androgynous_male tag? the idea was brought up in topic #41299 and I thought it might be applicable to this situation. if I understand correctly, at least part the current problem is that we have no term for a male character whose build/body type fails to conform to any "masculine" standard but also dosn't swing far enough in the other direction to be considered girly. this tag would be kind of be that exact thing.
No. I don't know what you mean by "masculine standard", but pretty much the only standard this site has is "no boobs". We have the manly tag for caricatures of masculinity, same as how girly is (supposed to be) for caricatures of femininity, but the scope of TWYS male body types is much wider than that.
Part of the problem with "twink" as a tag is that, if defined objectively, it could probably be applied to the majority of male posts on the site. A slimline build with neither a lot of fat nor muscle is an incredibly popular furry body shape, and not just because it's easy to draw. Even if an "androgynous_male" tag could be objectively defined, aliasing twink to it would cause just as many mistags as the current girly alias is doing.
Twinks aren’t always femboys I agree with this
keysmasher123 said:
The bulk update request #5616 is pending approval.remove alias twink (0) -> femboy (166472)
Reason: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twink_(gay_slang)
while yes a lot of twinks are girly, not all of them are
Also E6 users have zero idea what a femboy is, the logic seems to be whatever isn’t a big muscly man is a femboy which is just not true
Surprised nobody's brought up yet that the most accurate place to point the twink alias would be slim_male.
Twink is used to describe an attractive boyish, homosexual man with little to no body hair. Twink doesn't imply dressing or acting feminine.
sadly the alias make it's difficult to search non girly twink
Twink is a body style, it's a thin hairless you gay man. Femboy is a man who has a feminine style. It is not a given that a femboy will be a twink.
They should be separated.
Thanks to the GreatWolfgang for pointing out this open request in topic 57711
Voting in favor of removing this alias and bumping the thread in the hopes this gets momentum. "Twink" is a body type - specifically a slim, young, adult male. It's clearly different from femboy and the other proposed alternatives.
user_1650047 said:
Surprised nobody's brought up yet that the most accurate place to point the twink alias would be slim_male.
This really does feel like the best option. The original alias was done so that the twink tag would give relevant results instead of things that weren't remotely twinks - this would give even more relevant results than the current alias to "girly."
marnix said:
This really does feel like the best option. The original alias was done so that the twink tag would give relevant results instead of things that weren't remotely twinks - this would give even more relevant results than the current alias to "girly."
if anyone tries to apply twink to andromorph or maleherm characters this alias would cause mistags.
On that condition, I give this a +1 in favor
To be honest I'd probably still upvote this just because a lot of people have periodically shown their displeasure with the current alias.
nin10dope said:
Would it be better to alias it to slim instead? It's common ground and still accurate so it won't cause mistags, and people would already be required to tag male anyways with the gender buttons so it's effectively the same thing
Twink is basically slim_male + young_adult, and the "young adult" tag hasn't really taken off (although I try to use it). I think it's best to let "twink" stand alone as a valid tag, and maybe imply young_adult and slim_male. Simply removing the femboy alias seems to be what people voting for, and that looks like a lot of green in the top post, so why not just do that? That said, aliasing twink to "slim" is closer to the mark than aliasing it to "femboy", so it would be an improvement over the current system.
donkdewd said:
That said, aliasing twink to "slim" is closer to the mark than aliasing it to "femboy", so it would be an improvement over the current system.
That is indeed why I said that.
Young_adult sounds overly ambiguous in appearance, so I wouldn't recommend that.
nin10dope said:
That is indeed why I said that.
Young_adult sounds overly ambiguous in appearance, so I wouldn't recommend that.
I agree you probably need to read the e621 wiki to understand what "young_adult" signifies - that's probably why few people use that tag. I'm ok with not aliasing twink to it. So my vote is "yay" on removing the alias to femboy and "nay" on aliasing to "slim", which is overly broad, although that's better than the status quo.
donkdewd said:
I agree you probably need to read the e621 wiki to understand what "young_adult" signifies - that's probably why few people use that tag. I'm ok with not aliasing twink to it. So my vote is "yay" on removing the alias to femboy and "nay" on aliasing to "slim", which is overly broad, although that's better than the status quo.
young_adult should be invalidated. In practice, young_adult is the standard for characters, which is why other age tags exist i.e. young (and its subtags) and elderly to differentiate from the norm. This is after I did read the wiki from your suggestion and then looked at the posts with it. It's extremely unspecific and almost never touched for an age tag.
Twink should not be aliased to a gender tag (slim_male) for the same reason that other nongender tags are not allowed to do it, art is a vacuum of logic defying possibilities. It could be deemed as trans exclusionist, just like what I was told and then learned about for when I tried to have barazoku imply male despite being a male specific homosexual genre. I don't say that with disdain nor with any malice, that was just a learning experience. But I think the logic translates pretty much 1:1 to twink be aliased to slim_male (effectively saying that only males can use the tag)
nin10dope said:
young_adult should be invalidated. In practice, young_adult is the standard for characters...
It looked like someone put a lot of thought into the e621 wiki for "young_adult", which is why I've tried to use that tag when it seems to apply. I don't agree with the statement "In practice, young_adult is the standard..." but if the "young_adult" tag was invalidated, I wouldn't care, and I do take your point.
Twink should not be aliased to a gender tag (slim_male) for the same reason that other nongender tags are not allowed to do it, art is a vacuum of logic defying possibilities. It could be deemed as trans exclusionist, just like what I was told and then learned about for when I tried to have barazoku imply male despite being a male specific homosexual genre. I don't say that with disdain nor with any malice, that was just a learning experience. But I think the logic translates pretty much 1:1 to twink be aliased to slim_male (effectively saying that only males can use the tag)
That makes sense to me! In that case, I think an implication of "twink" to just "slim" is best.
donkdewd said:
It looked like someone put a lot of thought into the e621 wiki for "young_adult", which is why I've tried to use that tag when it seems to apply. I don't agree with the statement "In practice, young_adult is the standard..." but if the "young_adult" tag was invalidated, I wouldn't care, and I do take your point.That makes sense to me! In that case, I think an implication of "twink" to just "slim" is best.
Thank you :P
Anyone and everyone can write a wiki for a tag (unless it's locked)
I just checked that one's wiki's history and the editor just plainly said that the "Important Notes" was just copy-pasted from other age wikis lol
IMO female characters can be girly too.
czyszy said:
IMO female characters can be girly too.
Yeah, that's why the tag was aliased away.
czyszy said:
IMO female characters can be girly too.
and that's part of the reason as to why we don't call the tag girly anymore.
defining "girly" girl characters would be kinda hard to quantify since it's much more, like, default. and also, including them in a tag femboy characters definitely would not make much sense.
E6 definition of Femboy: "A male-bodied character with a feminine presentation in regard to personality, clothing, and/or body type"
There is nothing feminine presenting about any of these images and all of them are tagged as Femboy.
post #3531244
post #3464072
post #789674
post #1284933
post #2174894
post #435817
post #929199
This Ratchet one I think is the best example of what a twink is and I would love to remove the femboy tag and replace it with twink because that's what he is. I would like to find more like this since I personally am not a fan of femboy because I want my males to look like males. If we just remove the tag from these images without returning twink then people who are into this body type wouldn't have an easy way of searching these images
post #89246
milochu94 said:
(...)
Bringing the same argument over here when you've already been told most of those posts are mistagged really doesn't help anyone
Add them to a set if you want to keep track of them, but remove the tag from posts where it is not valid and move on
By the way, these two:
post #789674
post #2174894
The tag is absolutely valid on these posts
milochu94 said:
This Ratchet one I think is the best example of what a twink is and I would love to remove the femboy tag and replace it with twink because that's what he is. I would like to find more like this since I personally am not a fan of femboy because I want my males to look like males. If we just remove the tag from these images without returning twink then people who are into this body type wouldn't have an easy way of searching these images
post #89246
are either of these dudes even twink, though?
donovan_dmc said:
Bringing the same argument over here when you've already been told most of those posts are mistagged really doesn't help anyone
Add them to a set if you want to keep track of them, but remove the tag from posts where it is not valid and move onBy the way, these two:
post #789674
post #2174894The tag is absolutely valid on these posts
how? Bambi is a twink, he had the twink tag before it got removed. He's not feminine presenting, neither of those images should have femboy. It just furthers my point that femboy = non bara gay bottom. I want to blacklist femboy because I like my gay males to be males but too many images I like have it and removing the tag from every image it doesn't belong is crazy to ask since the tag shouldn't be there in the first place. It's only there because some people decided to convert twink to femboy
Updated
dba_afish said:
are either of these dudes even twink, though?
Ratchet is, the other isn't. One thing is for sure tho, neither are femboy
milochu94 said:
how? (...) He's not feminine presenting
SigmaX's Bambi definitely has feminine proportions around the waist
milochu94 said:
he had the twink tag before it got removed.
This is just false, if you would look at the tag history, you would see that twink was never present on this post (note that this post IS older than the alias), girly (what femboy used to be) was added in the second edit
milochu94 said:
neither of those images should have femboy. It just furthers my point that femboy = non bara gay bottom
My guy, how many times do we have to quote the wiki at you for you to get that it includes clothing
femboy:
feminine presentation in regard to personality, clothing, and/or body type (sans breasts).
I dont know about you, but panties seem like feminine clothing to me
milochu94 said:
and removing the tag from every image it doesn't belong is crazy to ask since the tag shouldn't be there in the first place. It's only there because some people decided to convert twink to femboy
That's how boorus work? Boorus rely on community tagging, whether that be for good or for bad. If you see a tag that's incorrect, fix it. Simple as that
Again, create a set if you want to keep track of the posts, but continuing to complain about the tag being on posts it shouldn't be on regardless is like a dog chasing its own tail, it might be fun but it helps no one
donovan_dmc said:
SigmaX's Bambi definitely has feminine proportions around the waistThis is just false, if you would look at the tag history, you would see that twink was never present on this post (note that this post IS older than the alias), girly (what femboy used to be) was added in the second edit
My guy, how many times do we have to quote the wiki at you for you to get that it includes clothing
I dont know about you, but panties seem like feminine clothing to me
That's how boorus work? Boorus rely on community tagging, whether that be for good or for bad. If you see a tag that's incorrect, fix it. Simple as that
Again, create a set if you want to keep track of the posts, but continuing to complain about the tag being on posts it shouldn't be on regardless is like a dog chasing its own tail, it might be fun but it helps no one
I'll be more than happy to fix the tags once twink is done being held hostage. And back to what I said in my other thread, so crossdressing + male = femboy 100% of the time? That doesn't seem right. I crossdress irl but I ain't no femboy. A twink works out to get a desirable sub male body, femboys are more the hrt taking type. Bambi in the old sigmax drawings had twink, I'm talking really old like the first pool of bambi and ronno
milochu94 said:
I'll be more than happy to fix the tags once twink is done being held hostage.
Then stop complaining about invalid tags being on posts if you refuse to fix them until some arbitrary time in the future
milochu94 said:
And back to what I said in my other thread, so crossdressing + male = femboy 100% of the time? That doesn't seem right.
That has been in the wiki definition for 16 years, if you want to argue it should be changed, again start a topic about that or find an existing topic to add on to
If you were to ask me I'd explicly label femboy as clothing and feminine as a body type, while one may include the other neither are required for the other, but that's neither here nor there
milochu94 said:
femboys are more the hrt taking type.
What? If someone is taking hrt they are more than likely trans, and while they can choose to categorize themselves a femboy, that is in no way related to femboy itself
milochu94 said:
Bambi in the old sigmax drawings had twink, I'm talking really old like the first pool of bambi and ronno
If that's what you mean then why are you linking posts that don't support that?
most of the examples for this I've seen around the forums and looking through the remains of the tag when it used to exist, twink kinda just means "conventionally attractive dude, sometimes he's doing a gay".
in all honesty, defining "twink" on its own is to me kinda seems like trying to define "femme" on its own. it's hard to quantify each of them because, without something to contrast, it's pretty nebulous.
milochu94 said:
femboys are more the hrt taking type.
Man, I was just about to throw you a bone by saying that perhaps e6's femboy alias and common-use has potentially, subtly, perverted our definition of a twink. But then you had to go and say that ignorant shit. I won't go further on that because I have a bad habit of being unclear on how I make sense of stuff, but what you said is just untrue and maybe a little biased.
dba_afish said:
most of the examples for this I've seen around the forums and looking through the remains of the tag when it used to exist, twink kinda just means "conventionally attractive dude, sometimes he's doing a gay".in all honesty, defining "twink" on its own is to me kinda seems like trying to define "femme" on its own. it's hard to quantify each of them because, without something to contrast, it's pretty nebulous.
You're not too far off lmao
A twink is literally just a smaller, slimmer dude. Which can often just be given to some people with genetics, myself included. Behaving in a slight femme or flamboyant manner is just the icing on the cake that is that final step before you cross into the world of femboy
I will also say that it's pretty interesting that the longer this topic stays at the top of the most recent topics, the longer the streak of Thumbs Up I'm seeing
i'm gonna weigh in on this rq
femboy only indicates a feminine body type and personality on a male.
twink only indicates a particularly thin body type in general.
chubby femboys, while cute in their own way, aren't quite the same as twinks, and so the current alias breaks the "tag what you see" rule.
fleskywood said:
i'm gonna weigh in on this rq
femboy only indicates a feminine body type and personality on a male.
twink only indicates a particularly thin body type in general.chubby femboys, while cute in their own way, aren't quite the same as twinks, and so the current alias breaks the "tag what you see" rule.
Not exactly breaks the TWYS but pigeon-holes the tag