Topic: [REJECTED] Tag alias: webcam -> webcam_(disambiguation)

Posted under Tag Alias and Implication Suggestions

faucet

Member

The tag alias #55521 webcam -> webcam_(disambiguation) has been rejected.

Reason: It seems like the webcam tag is intended to apply to the actual webcam itself (since it implies camera) but quite frequently appears to be used for images that have a webcam POV.

Would probably be served better by

EDIT: The tag alias webcam -> webcam_(disambiguation) (forum #321973) has been rejected by @Rainbow_Dash.

Updated by auto moderator

MatrixMash

Privileged

Of the first 75 webcam images, 23 of them did not seem to have a webcam_(object) visible. Most were livestreams/video_calls/cam_shows. post #2874891 has a webcam in frame, but not visible to the viewer (the laptop is facing away). post #2843153 has the character interacting with the POV webcam, which probably isn't worth creating a tag for. post #2824309 is just a phone lol.

So about 1 in 3 is mistagged. I don't know if that's enough to justify an alias or not.

faucet

Member

matrixmash said:
post #2843153 has the character interacting with the POV webcam, which probably isn't worth creating a tag for.

I'm sure there's already a tag for this, I found camera_pov but I'm fairly sure there's another one that has even more usage.

matrixmash said:
So about 1 in 3 is mistagged. I don't know if that's enough to justify an alias or not.

Considering we've disambiguated some things in the past because of the "potential of mistagging" I'd say ⅓ of posts being mistagged is plenty good enough. Going back to some of the older pages I'd say some of those are even closer to ¾.

Watsit

Privileged

faucet said:
I'm sure there's already a tag for this, I found camera_pov but I'm fairly sure there's another one that has even more usage.

*_pov

tags are typically used for first-person POVs, which typically implies first_person_view and requires some bodypart of the viewer to be visible to count, so I'd definitely suggest aliasing it to a less confusing name.

Rainbow Dash

Admin

faucet said:
I'm sure there's already a tag for this, I found camera_pov but I'm fairly sure there's another one that has even more usage.

Considering we've disambiguated some things in the past because of the "potential of mistagging" I'd say ⅓ of posts being mistagged is plenty good enough. Going back to some of the older pages I'd say some of those are even closer to ¾.

On that note, I really don't want to just keep piling up disambiguation tags for things that are not absolutely needed. These tags were a good idea but just end up neglected and producing more mess if we make too many of them.

In this case it would probably be better to just clean it up in one quick effort and make the appropriate aliases/implications (such as consolidating video call/livestreaming tags, having camera pov go to camera view which I'm about to approve) without a disambiguation just sitting on them forever

MatrixMash

Privileged

rainbow_dash said:
On that note, I really don't want to just keep piling up disambiguation tags for things that are not absolutely needed. These tags were a good idea but just end up neglected and producing more mess if we make too many of them.

In this case it would probably be better to just clean it up in one quick effort and make the appropriate aliases/implications (such as consolidating video call/livestreaming tags, having camera pov go to camera view which I'm about to approve) without a disambiguation just sitting on them forever

All right. I'll go through and fill it out, but I would like permission to make a web_cam_(object) tag with implication to camera, because people are definitely misusing the web_cam tag like it means livestream, and I don't want to have to go through this work again.

spe

Admin

matrixmash said:
All right. I'll go through and fill it out, but I would like permission to make a web_cam_(object) tag with implication to camera, because people are definitely misusing the web_cam tag like it means livestream, and I don't want to have to go through this work again.

Just call it webcam. No underscore.

MatrixMash

Privileged

Ok. I've finished sorting through. The only posts I won't bother with are flash files; someone else can check them.

The following lists are often incomplete, since I only noticed patterns halfway through tagging them. I am too tuckered out to do a better job.

Stuff I think is uncontroversial
I plan to request a BUR when this thread is over, to clean up various spellings.

alias camshow -> cam_show
alias live_stream -> livestream
alias livestreaming -> livestream
alias streaming -> livestream
imply cam_show -> livestream

cam_show has no definition right now, but outside e621, it means a subtype of livestream.

Posts I set as camera_view without overlays/HUDs/recording symbols

cum on lens: post #165960
scanlines: post #687271 post #1301731
grainy: post #684510 post #694556
POV object is in mirror: post #2697492

Some posts have webcams where the webcam is part of the monitor. We could make a tag for that, but I don't think anybody cares.
post #462232 has webcams as profile pictures. It is justified to be tagged webcam under picture_in_picture rules.
I have been replacing webcam with video_camera where the cameras look hand-held, have tripods, have local displays, or otherwise appear intended to function without a computer. For example, post #426572.
post #2069615: I can't decide if this is a webcam or a video_camera. It probably doesn't matter.
post #2601782: I don't really know what is going on here, visually? The big white circle is probably supposed to be a camera. I think.
post #423036: VTuber rig demo. Not a livestream, since it's in-context prerecorded. I set it as camera_view, but that's only technically true if you think of it as multiple_images.

Stuff you might disagree with

Removed webcam related tags on post #1567175, and did not add camera_view since the text isn't enough.

Posts I set as camera_view without overlays/HUDs/recording symbols

I applied the livestream tag to images with a cutaway to "chat" but no display software (viewport): post #689560 post #1383901 post #2989001 post #2725525. You could argue that the livestream tag is only for the viewport itself.
I have been tagging as though livestream and video_call are mutually exclusive, and not that video_call is a subset of livestream. If you believe this should be altered, make an implication request for imply video_call -> livestream
post #884243 post #2989507: deleted webcam because it's lore
post #1392479: deleted webcam because they could also be watching porn. I'm not sure, though.

Stuff I think is unpopular/violates TWYS, but did anyway
Posts I set as camera_view without overlays/HUDs/recording symbols

pool #9862: posts in a pool should be tagged independently. video_call is only explicit for one post in this pool. However, there are obvious perspective shifts, and when I first saw post #1025890 I correctly inferred that they were intended to be on a video_call. So I argue they should all have video_call, with the in-image signifier being the perspective shifts.
post #304532 through post #318270 of pool #628: a similar argument.
post #247930 through post #260134 of pool #1820: a similar argument. Note that post #247937 and post #251462 do not have perspective shifts and do not merit video_call.
post #435324 post #436256: a similar argument, though for different reasons, since they do not have perspective shifts and instead have video "playback" of the stream on nearby computers. They are livestreams from pool context. However, there is no chat box in these specific images, so the computers could just be playback of recordings. I think livestream would still make more sense, though.

post #165648 has neither visible webcams or camera viewports, but is clearly a video_call.

Stuff I will ask about in separate threads, so this one stays manageable

In addition to the duplicates BUR, I plan to request the invalidation of the camwhore and camgirl tags. Looking at the posts, they all either rely on lore or fit under cam_show or some kind of implied_livestream or implied_video_call. If invalidating camwhore is acceptable, I'll sort them out.
I assumed that the difference between livestream and video_call was that livestreams are public with anonymous viewers, and video_calls are private with reciprocally-streaming partners. For example, post #116548 is a video_call because you can see someone who is presumably a viewer. However, post #2468227 and post #1138483 do not have a reciprocal stream, so I left them alone. I did apply it to pool #2294 and post #589182, before I realized this problem.

There are a lot of images with a character presenting itself before an open laptop or interacting with it with the implication that the laptop's webcam is recording them. I don't think we should allow these to have the webcam tag, but I would like to make an implied_webcam or presenting_to_monitor/presenting_to_laptop tag instead. Link to set.
*post #1023177 post #1274594: kind of questionable.
*post #927244 You can't see the webcam, even though it should be visible in the monitor.
*post #128970: very strange. It would justify implied_webcam, but not presenting_to_x.

Can an image be a livestream without a visible viewport? Ranging from characters saying it in dialogue to pictogram "emote bubbles" over the computers. Link to set
Can an image be a video_call without a visible viewport? Ranging from characters saying it in dialogue to juxtaposition scenes showing both sides of the exchange. Link to set
post #2326755 is debateable, but I read it as one-on-one.
post #1590505 might also be a cam_show, with mae stumbling into the room.

Updated