Implicating baleen_whale → cetacean
Link to implication

Reason:

Baleen whales are a small order of cetaceans

Related cetacean implications

• ambulocetus → cetacean
• maiacetus → cetacean
• monodontid → cetacean
• orca → cetacean
• pakicetus → cetacean
• pilot_whale → cetacean

• blue_whale → baleen_whale
• bowhead_whale → baleen_whale
• bryde's_whale → baleen_whale
• fin_whale → baleen_whale
• humpback_whale → baleen_whale
• minke_whale → baleen_whale
• right_whale → baleen_whale
• sei_whale → baleen_whale

• atlantic_white-sided_dolphin → dolphin
• bottlenose_dolphin → dolphin
• commerson's_dolphin → dolphin
• common_dolphin → dolphin
• hourglass_dolphin → dolphin
• pacific_white-sided_dolphin → dolphin
• river_dolphin → dolphin
• striped_dolphin → dolphin

• short-beaked_common_dolphin → common_dolphin

• amazon_river_dolphin → river_dolphin
• baiji → river_dolphin

• beluga → monodontid
• narwhal → monodontid

Related cetacean aliases

• boto → amazon_river_dolphin
• bufeo → amazon_river_dolphin
• pink_river_dolphin → amazon_river_dolphin

• great_whale → baleen_whale
• mysticeti → baleen_whale
• whalebone_whale → baleen_whale

• beluga_whale → beluga

• bottlenose → bottlenose_(disambiguation)¹

• arctic_whale → bowhead_whale
• great_whale → bowhead_whale
• greenland_right_whale → bowhead_whale
• polar_whale → bowhead_whale
• russian_whale → bowhead_whale

• panda_dolphin → commerson's_dolphin
• piebald_dolphin → commerson's_dolphin
• russian_whale → commerson's_dolphin
• skunk_dolphin → commerson's_dolphin

• common_rorqual → fin_whale
• finback_whale → fin_whale
• herring_whale → fin_whale
• razorback_whale → fin_whale

• lesser_rorqual → minke_whale

• phocoenid → porpoise
• phocoenidae → porpoise

• short_beaked_common_dolphin → short-beaked_common_dolphin

¹ Can refer to a beaked whale, the bottlenose whale, or even several fish.

Related cetacean implication removals

• Remove marine implication from orca. Redundant.
• Remove whale implication from beluga, orca, and pilot_whale; the latter two are much closer in relation and even general appearance to dolphins and the like, so a base cetacean implication would be more accurate and also more fitting in regards to sorting species imho. The former, beluga, is a monodontid.

DiceLovesBeingBlown said:

• Remove whale implication from beluga, orca, and pilot_whale; the latter two are much closer in relation and even general appearance to dolphins and the like, so a base cetacean implication would be more accurate and also more fitting in regards to sorting species imho. The former, beluga, is a monodontid.

Orca, beluga and dolphins are Odontoceti, toothed whales. They should be tagged as such, since there's a common misconception that "they're not whales". And if we add a baleen_whale tag, then clearly toothed_whale should be added too.

Genjar said:
Orca and dolphin are Odontoceti, toothed whales. They should be tagged as such, since there's the common misconception that "orca aren't whales".

The thing is that Odontoceti is basically the wide encompassing name for cetaceans that have teeth, regardless of whale status.

The toothed whales (systematic name Odontoceti) are a parvorder of cetaceans that includes dolphins, porpoises, and all other whales possessing teeth

This INCLUDES dolphins, porpoises, etc. With this logic, technically we should be tagging dolphins and porpoises as whales as well as "they're all toothed whales", which imho would just not be helpful in regards to searching and categorizing, even if technically accurate.

While I like being as accurate as possible, IMHO there has to be a point where we skip the redundancies and/or generally confusing aspects. Take the genus canis for example. Technically, canis are a genus of canines, but using BOTH canine and canis as tags would just be incredibly repetitive and just not really super helpful, even if scientifically accurate.

No, if we add parvorders at all then we should add both. Not just baleen_whale.

And they should absolutely be tagged as whales, since that's what they are. Notice the bit that you quoted? "Dolphins, porpoises, and all other whales". All cetaceans are whales.

Genjar said:
No, if we add parvorders at all then we should add both. Not just baleen_whale.

And they should absolutely be tagged as whales, since that's what they are. Notice the bit that you quoted? "Dolphins, porpoises, and all other whales". All cetaceans are whales.

All cetaceans are whales, but wouldn't having both as a base species tag be redundant if they serve the same purpose? Wouldn't the tags cetacean and whale then become just the same tag at this point?

I added baleen_whale suggestion because they're easy to distinguish and categorize, being the filter feeding whales with the characteristic baleen filters in their mouths. Whereas odontoceti are so varied in size and general anatomy that I can't label that as a distinguished, recognizable species trait that cetacean doesn't already cover.

We could alias the term whale altogether to cetacean maybe, to show that its an identical term for cetaceans, and then have all the other groups just imply plain cetacean and do away with the plain whale tag altogether as it's aliased to cetacean now

DiceLovesBeingBlown said:
We could alias the term whale altogether to cetacean maybe, to show that its an identical term for cetaceans, and then have all the other groups just imply plain cetacean and do away with the plain whale tag altogether as it's aliased to cetacean now

Sure, as long as the toothed_whale tier is added. The redesign should aim for accuracy, instead of 'common knowledge'. There's nothing wrong with educating the userbase. The "orcas aren't whales" nonsense is too widespread.

Genjar said:
Sure, as long as the toothed_whale tier is added. The redesign should aim for accuracy, instead of 'common knowledge'. And there's nothing wrong with educating the userbase. The "orcas aren't whales" nonsense is too widespread.

Fair enough, honestly. I just was personally trying to balance common knowledge with general usability, to help out casual taggers, but if that's not as big of a deal with this kind of thing then I'm on board with that + a toothed_whale tier. I know the whole "orcas aren't really whales" thing isn't true ahaha, don't worry, I was more or less trying to work with common knowledge tagging and usability but with that not being of first importance I'm definitely behind a whale -> cetacean alias, toothed_beak tag, etc etc.

Apologies if I came off as aggressive or anything in my responses! Tone is so hard to convey in text lmao. Your contributions are honestly real helpful here, though in general as well they're usually great and helpful as well

I'll hold off on implications until I can make better sense of your request, but I've done the aliases.

However,

I left great_whale → baleen_whale and whalebone_whale → baleen_whale alone, I'd like to hold off a bit on anything baleen-related
I left great_whale → bowhead_whale alone because something cannot be aliased to two things and I'd rather alias it to baleen_whale
I left russian_whale → commerson's_dolphin alone because this seems incorrect, used jacobita -> commerson's_dolphin instead

Sort out a proposal for toothed_whale and I'll take a look when I can.

Ratte said:
I'll hold off on implications until I can make better sense of your request, but I've done the aliases.

However,

I left great_whale → baleen_whale and whalebone_whale → baleen_whale alone, I'd like to hold off a bit on anything baleen-related
I left great_whale → bowhead_whale alone because something cannot be aliased to two things and I'd rather alias it to baleen_whale
I left russian_whale → commerson's_dolphin alone because this seems incorrect, used jacobita -> commerson's_dolphin instead

Sort out a proposal for toothed_whale and I'll take a look when I can.

Ah my apologies for my mistake!

And will do! I'll see to making a proposal for toothed_whale in the next few days.

Alright, bumping with some alterations with toothed_whale in mind. Invalidated implication suggestions slashed off in prior forum post, those unslashed are fine as is imho. Let me know if I messed up or contradicted anything.

Oceanic_dolphin could be delphinid instead, but I feel oceanic_dolphins might work better and be more recognizable as a name (they're the same thing anyways)

Implications

• archaeoceti → cetacean
• baleen_whale → cetacean
• physeteroid → cetacean
• toothed_whale → cetacean

• ambulocetus → archaeoceti
• maiacetus → archaeoceti
• pakicetus → archaeoceti

• sperm_whale → physeteroid

• beaked_whale → toothed_whale
• delphinoid → toothed_whale
• well-nosed_dolphin → toothed_whale

• oceanic_dolphin → delphinoid
• monodontid → delphinoid
• orca → delphinoid
• porpoise → delphinoid
• river_dolphin → delphinoid

• atlantic_white-sided_dolphin → oceanic_dolphin
• bottlenose_dolphin → oceanic_dolphin
• commerson's_dolphin → oceanic_dolphin
• common_dolphin → oceanic_dolphin
• hourglass_dolphin → oceanic_dolphin
• pacific_white-sided_dolphin → oceanic_dolphin
• pilot_whale → oceanic_dolphin
• striped_dolphin → oceanic_dolphin

• short-beaked_common_dolphin → common_dolphin

• amazon_river_dolphin → river_dolphin
• baiji → river_dolphin

Aliases

• ziphiid → beaked_whale
• ziphiidae → beaked_whale
• ziphiidea → beaked_whale

• cetacea → cetacean
• whale → cetacean