Or the reverse thereof, whatever is more reasonable.

Both are subjective as hell but if one exists then I should be able to easily find that kind of content by searching a single word tag rather than have horror be invalidated for no good reason.

See forum #160810.

We probably don't want to bloat nightmare_fuel any further, since it's likely to be removed at some point. It's subjective, and the wiki entry is a mess.

Genjar said:
See forum #160810.

We probably don't want to bloat nightmare_fuel any further, since it's likely to be removed at some point. It's subjective, and the wiki entry is a mess.

Even if it be naturally subjective, there is a great usefulness in having a catch-all tag for terrifying/disturbing things, mostly because multiple people would like to blacklist it.

One question: Why are 'boner_murder' and 'go_to_sleep' aliased to 'nightmare_fuel'? with aliases such those, isn't hard that the tag get messed up.

O16 said:
Even if it be naturally subjective, there is a great usefulness in having a catch-all tag for terrifying/disturbing things, mostly because multiple people would like to blacklist it.

Doesn't work well as catch-all, considering that it is kept separate from tags such as creepypasta, eldritch_horror, etc.

Speaking of subjective tags, someone's created a high_octane_nightmare_fuel tag. Yet those don't seem notably different from regular nightmare fuel to me. :/

Genjar said:
See forum #160810.

We probably don't want to bloat nightmare_fuel any further, since it's likely to be removed at some point. It's subjective, and the wiki entry is a mess.

Personally, I'm against invalidating nightmare_fuel, mostly for the reason 016 stated above. It is very effective to keep people from downvoting a post to hell or leave nasty comments like this. The tag should be fixed rather than dismissed entirely.

Furthermore, if and when nightmare_fuel gets invalidated, then tags like what, what_has_science_done, where_is_your_god_now, and lol_comments should also hit the trail, for being just as subjective.

But, on topic, I wouldn't alias horror to nightmare_fuel. The two are not interchangeable, even if they are related.

Genjar said:
Doesn't work well as catch-all, considering that it is kept separate from tags such as creepypasta, eldritch_horror, etc.

Judging by the content under 'eldritch_horror' it possibly should be implicated to 'nightmare_fuel'; however the same cannot be said about 'creepypasta', since the majority of its content is composed of merely strange or unnerving posts, actually part of it consists of "normal" post featuring elements from popular creepypasta.

Genjar said:
Speaking of subjective tags, someone's created a high_octane_nightmare_fuel tag. Yet those don't seem notably different from regular nightmare fuel to me. :/

Same here.

UnusualParadox said:
Personally, I'm against invalidating nightmare_fuel, mostly for the reason 016 stated above. It is very effective to keep people from downvoting a post to hell or leave nasty comments like this. The tag should be fixed rather than dismissed entirely.

Same here. I'm sure a lot of people don't want this to pop up when searching for bunny mugshots.

Hence why I suggested using the Horror tag. Rather than invalidating another useful tag for people to use which is completely unreasonable and silly. Why not alias a useful tag thats already invalidated for some unknown reason into it so its easier to use.

Frankly Horror/Nightmare Fuel may be subjective but there is a time and a place for using that tag.

That is, for when a piece of art is drawn in a surrealistic and thereby disturbing style or when it is designed to be creepy. IE: rotting flesh and "unspeakable" or eldritch creatures. See any art of any Eldrazi for the most part and they normally fit into this bracket by design.

Theres a reason to use these tags for people who want to find it because they enjoy it, and for people to blacklist as a handy tool.

We cant afford to be trigger happy to get rid of useful things because one person personally dont use them.

I personally also vote to change the name around from nightmare_fuel to horror, or unalias the name horror from invalidated_tag and reclass it for use with monsters of that type.

Yes someone out there wants to fuck the swamp thing. And yes someone else out there thinks its terrifying.

We already have other trigger tags such as Trypophobia available for blacklist.

This is no different and your immediate response shouldnt be "hey lets get rid of this because I dont personally use it."

It should be how do we make this easier for our users to use to and/or make things more comfortable for everyone involved.

It boggles my mind why parasprite got rid of the useful horror tag for no reason in the first place when theyre literally both for the same thing.

Demesejha said:
[snip]

As I just said, horror is not necessarily nightmare fuel. The best analogy I can use is "all beetles are insects, but not all insects are beetles". Take for example classic monster movies (like the Wolfman, Nosferatu, and the Blob ) they are considered part of the horror genre, but aren't particularly scary by today's standards. Such is the difference between nightmare_fuel and horror. Nightmare fuel takes horror to a whole new level from being so visually disturbing that I inspires nightmares. Whereas horror can be much tamer by comparison.

There's already scary, creepy, and grimdark, which is bad enough. Throwing in horror too would just muddle it further.

Especially when nobody's been able to explain what's the difference. Like I said, the current wiki entries are a mess. Example:

Nightmare_fuel definition:
All it has to do is supply the creepy mental imagery and ideas...
Next line: The tag scary, creepy or similar does not refer to this

So it's for creepy mental imagery that's not scary or creepy? Well, that's plain as day.

No wonder nobody tags these consistently. We're going to need proper definitions for these first, before even thinking about restoring related tags.

Certainly doesn't help that the concept of nightmare fuel is common knowledge, and too broad to fit under a single tag.

May someone please answer the question I made in my first post?

"Why are 'boner_murder' and 'go_to_sleep' aliased to 'nightmare_fuel'?"

I really don't know why someone once saw such aliases as good ideas (they hadn't any avalible thread, at least I couldn't found any).

UnusualParadox said:
Personally, I'm against invalidating nightmare_fuel, mostly for the reason 016 stated above. It is very effective to keep people from downvoting a post to hell or leave nasty comments like this. The tag should be fixed rather than dismissed entirely.

Furthermore, if and when nightmare_fuel gets invalidated, then tags like what, what_has_science_done, where_is_your_god_now, and lol_comments should also hit the trail, for being just as subjective.

But, on topic, I wouldn't alias horror to nightmare_fuel. The two are not interchangeable, even if they are related.

I sincerely hope lol_comments does not get invalidated, its one of my favorite tags and some posts do have truly hilarious comment chains.

Horror is a feeling and genre named after the feeling it should evoke. Nightmare fuel is immanently disturbing.

Horror as a genre is not necessarily disturbing, or at least not necessarily disturbing on a present, visceral level. If we're going to, for the moment, treat horror seriously as a tag, then many current tags should be implicated to horror for pure genre association, like zombie and most/all other undead, xenomorph, and eldritch_horror and h.p._lovecraft/cthulhu_mythos.

_{Although I should "know better" than to lump Lovecraft wholesale in with horror, splitting that hair here would be a fruitless endeavor and waste of the casual user's time.}

However, horror as a feeling is exactly what nightmare_fuel describes:

In that sense, horrifying would be a better descriptive form of the word that disambiguates the tag from the genre.

OT? Speaking of... h.p._lovecraft can be aliased to cthulhu_mythos straight away. Semantically, there's obviously an important distinction between the ideas, but I highly doubt e621 will see a post where Lovecraft should be tagged but not his mythos.

Anyway, small diligence reveals:

The uploader of this post tagged it with horror, if horror's one current search result means that. I'm glad horror is invalidated...

post #1292992

abadbird said:

horror, boner_murder, and go_to_sleep tags

Old Horror → Nightmare_fuel thread

horror was invalidated January 2016 in the above-mentioned thread because it wasn't tagged as a succinct idea.

boner_murder is an obvious synonym for "boner kill" (adjective and noun). Before I joined e621, I had read an insightful and morbidly fascinating "boner kill thread" in the old Bad Dragon forums, where people share things that one can look up or merely think about to lose their boner/horniness in a hurry. Just Google boner kill thread for examples, not that I recommend poring over them. The idea here, as an alias to nightmare_fuel, is that anything that would murder a boner is also nightmare_fuel, an assertion which can be left unexplored and assumed true for the sake of simplicity.

boner_murder doesn't appear much in the forums and was probably aliased as a result of this thread. Alias initiated by former staff aurali for the reason "redundant use of the alias", date not recorded.

go_to_sleep appears to be a reference to a line from the jeff_the_killer creepypasta story (off-site wiki ). A Google image search of go to sleep makes that relationship clear. That originating context can be transplanted (e.g., as a caption) to instances beyond Jeff the Killer, as memes often are. The assumption here is that anyone tagging go_to_sleep is labeling that context, which should be nightmare_fuel by its very nature. As a rule, I won't dignify creepypasta and SCP stuff by actually reading them. I'm a Weird genre snob that way, so no comment from me on what that context specifically is. Aliased August 2011 by Riversyde for the reason of redundant tagging (?). thread

Evidently, go_to_sleep is a subset of nightmare_fuel, because not all nightmare_fuel should qualify as go_to_sleep. Instead of invalidating go_to_sleep, it was dumped into nightmare_fuel.

Somewhat related, go to sleep can also imply or suggest someone's death, similar to take a dirt nap.

I view neither boner_murder nor go_to_sleep as good tags, and contemplating them feels like navel-gazing.

So that is the apparent "justification". Thank you for the information.

-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-

Now (armed with this knowledge) I can say what I wanted to since the moment I saw this 'boner_murder' alias: It shouldn't have happened.
What is or not considered a "boner murder" is completely personal, it is the typical tag of which usage would vary immensely between individuals; hence I believe it shouldn't be aliased to nothing, except 'invalid_tag'.

Regarding 'go_to_sleep'; If it really is a reference to some creepypast, then it should receive a disambiguation suffix (because it basically is an aleatory phrase), and subsequently be implicated to 'creepypasta'.

Those were last tagged in 2010. Don't worry about it.

yeah i think Horror sounds better compared to Nightmare Fuel. what gives me nightmares might not give the person next to me nightmares, meanwhile something in the horror genre is bound to give most people some form of the heebie jeebies in some way shape or form

ccpd said:
yeah i think Horror sounds better compared to Nightmare Fuel.

As the previous posters explained, those aren't the same thing. For instance, the cheese_grater is nightmare fuel, but not horror.

Genjar said:
As the previous posters explained, those aren't the same thing. For instance, the cheese_grater is nightmare fuel, but not horror.

Cheese graters are only nightmare fuel when used incorrectly.

21:57 scp-1241
40:29 scp-3325