Implicating pegging → sex
Link to implication

Reason:

Pegging is necessarily an act between two partners, and the wiki even seems to suggest that it ought to qualify as sex. Either the wiki ought to be updated, or pegging ought to imply sex.

I think the latter makes more sense.

EDIT: The tag implication pegging -> sex (forum #210963) has been rejected by @Millcore.

-1. Shoving a dildo into someone isn't sex.

I suggest pegging I-> toying_partner instead.

BlueDingo said:
-1. Shoving a dildo into someone isn't sex.

I suggest pegging I-> toying_partner instead.

+1 to this

BlueDingo said:
-1. Shoving a dildo into someone isn't sex.

I suggest pegging I-> toying_partner instead.

I disagree. Strapon sex is generally tagged as sex on here despite using dildos, so pegging I feel should be tagged similarly.

I'd agree if it was toying the partner by hand with a toy, but this is using a toy in the manner a penis would be used.

I think that toying_partner should also imply sex.

Sex is difficult to define, but I think the best definition is something along the lines of "a physical act in which two or more individuals interact in such a way as at least one of them could orgasm from physical stimulation from another partner."

Maybe that could be cleaned up a bit, but I think that's a good point to work off of.

Pegging and other activities where one individual uses a toy on someone else would fall under the category of "sex" by this definition.

If you disagree with this definition, I'd like to hear how you'd define sex such that it includes everything we already accept as sex on this site, but such that it excludes toying a partner, pegging, etc..

Of note, here are three implications which are already in effect which I think have some bearing on the issue:

tribadism -> sex (meaning penetration is not required for sex)
rimming -> sex (meaning genitals need not be involved for sex)
handjob -> sex (manual stimulation / hands may be involved in sex)

Also, another two implications I think should be implemented:

mutual_masturbation -> sex
fingering_partner -> sex

Since handjob implies sex.

+1. Strap-on sex is sex, pegging is anal sex.

It's almost absurd that anyone would try to claim that fucking someone anally with a dildo isn't sex.

Clawdragons said:
I think that toying_partner should also imply sex.

Sex is difficult to define, but I think the best definition is something along the lines of "a physical act in which two or more individuals interact in such a way as at least one of them could orgasm from physical stimulation from another partner."

Maybe that could be cleaned up a bit, but I think that's a good point to work off of.

Pegging and other activities where one individual uses a toy on someone else would fall under the category of "sex" by this definition.

If you disagree with this definition, I'd like to hear how you'd define sex such that it includes everything we already accept as sex on this site, but such that it excludes toying a partner, pegging, etc..

Of note, here are three implications which are already in effect which I think have some bearing on the issue:

tribadism -> sex (meaning penetration is not required for sex)
rimming -> sex (meaning genitals need not be involved for sex)
handjob -> sex (manual stimulation / hands may be involved in sex)

Also, another implication I think should be implemented:

mutual_masturbation -> sex
fingering_partner -> sex

Since handjob implies sex.

+1 to all those. If an act is considered masturbation, then its equivalent that involves more than one individual should considered sex, and vice versa; since the difference between a masturbatory and sexual act is the number of individuals directly involved (1 and ≥ 2, respectively).

Note: 'toying_self' implies 'masturbation'.

-1 to the main suggestion. 'pegging' should imply 'toying_partner', which should imply 'sex'.

+1 to the implication.

If a character slides a fleshlight around someone's dick and strokes them through it, it's a conscious attempt to sexually pleasure them. If a character uses a double-dildo with another character without pressing orifices together, they're still having sex.

Why, then, would pegging, being a toy used for the same purpose as the above two examples, be exempt from the classification of being sexual intercourse with another person? Clawdragons' explanation is also a strong point in favor of this.

Edit: Implicating toying_partner would likely be better, as the post above mentioned, which should inherently implicate to sex.

O16 said:
-1 to the main suggestion. 'pegging' should imply 'toying_partner', which should imply 'sex'.

I feel like toying_partner sort of indicates that the toy is being manipulated with the hands or hand-equivalents, and isn't suitable for things like strap-ons, feeldoes, and double dildos (the line is kind of blurry here).

Clawdragons said:
I feel like toying_partner sort of indicates that the toy is being manipulated with the hands or hand-equivalents, and isn't suitable for things like strap-ons, feeldoes, and double dildos (the line is kind of blurry here).

Can you explain better what do you mean by "sort of indicates"?
By the logic, if a character is using a sex toy to sexually stimulate another, then it is toying its partner.

One problem with implicating toying_partner to sex is that it occasionally gets tagged when the characters are setting up the toys (immediate_sex), and also for posts where a character has just finished using a toy on their partner (after_sex, evident from cum strings, etc).

I'm unsure if toying_partner should be tagged for those in the first place, but we currently have no other tags for those (no equivalent of after_toying_partner, etc). So sorting those out would just leave them tagless..

Genjar said:
I'm unsure if toying_partner should be tagged for those in the first place, but we currently have no other tags for those (no equivalent of after_toying_partner, etc). So sorting those out would just leave them tagless..

Maybe make some sort of used_sex_toy tag?

O16 said:
Can you explain better what do you mean by "sort of indicates"?
By the logic, if a character is using a sex toy to sexually stimulate another, then it is toying its partner.

Well, I guess you can see my issue with the alias more clearly by looking at the examples I gave.

Does a double-dildo count as toying_partner? That seems wrong to me. Technically each character is manipulating the toy by their actions, and as such having an effect on the other partner, but when I read "Toying Partner", it seems to indicate that one character is primarily using a toy on the other.

So then what about a feeldoe? One character is certainly "using" the toy, while the other has the toy used on them, but at the same time the line is blurry, because in many ways it is acting more like a double-dildo - just, one that one partner has a bit more control over.

A strap-on seems to be more clear, with one character using the toy and also not having it used on them, but that's clarity is misleading, because it is on the far end of the spectrum.

There are other points along this line, depending on the design of the toy. A strap-on with a vibrating base, for instance. There isn't a clear rule that seems like it can be applied here.

A much clearer division comes in when you consider how the toy is being applied - if it's being applied to one character by their hands, that is a much more clear division from which a tagging distinction can be made.

I guess what I'm saying is this: with a certain group of toys and activities, there is confusion about where toying a partner ends, and mutual toy use begins, but that line can be drawn elsewhere in a much more clear manner.

Clawdragons said:
Does a double-dildo count as toying_partner? That seems wrong to me. Technically each character is manipulating the toy by their actions, and as such having an effect on the other partner, but when I read "Toying Partner", it seems to indicate that one character is primarily using a toy on the other.

I agree. In this case each character is acting more independently than anything else; is more like each one is toying itself and the reflect such action has on the other character is merely secondary (actually, may not even be clear if it really is happening).

Clawdragons said:
So then what about a feeldoe? One character is certainly "using" the toy, while the other has the toy used on them, but at the same time the line is blurry, because in many ways it is acting more like a double-dildo - just, one that one partner has a bit more control over.

In this case 'toying_another' seems perfectly applicable. The character "wearing" the feeldoe is simultaneously stimulating its partner as well as itself, the partner, in other hand, is just being stimulated.

The fact of a specific character being more firmly bonded to the toy, as well as, it clearly acting in such a way to stimulate its partner, make all the difference.

Clawdragons said:
A strap-on seems to be more clear, with one character using the toy and also not having it used on them, but that's clarity is misleading, because it is on the far end of the spectrum.

There are other points along this line, depending on the design of the toy. A strap-on with a vibrating base, for instance. There isn't a clear rule that seems like it can be applied here.

I guess there isn't much to say about this that I hadn't said in my argument directly above.

p.s. can you paraphrase the highlighted excerpt please?

Clawdragons said:
A much clearer division comes in when you consider how the toy is being applied - if it's being applied to one character by their hands, that is a much more clear division from which a tagging distinction can be made.

I guess what I'm saying is this: with a certain group of toys and activities, there is confusion about where toying a partner ends, and mutual toy use begins, but that line can be drawn elsewhere in a much more clear manner.

Well, I guess you are seeing this whole thing as an "either this or that" question.

If a character is visibly stimulating another by using a toy, then it would be toying its partner, the effect that the toy in question has on the first character doesn't change that.

While the usage of "regular dildos" is the clearer among those cases, using a feeldoe or strap-on also make enough clear that a character is direct participating on the effect that a toy has on the other.

I just meant that all these toys exist on a relatively continuous spectrom going from "mutual toying" to "toy use on a partner", and that a strap-on is at the far end of that spectrum, such that it appears to be clearly in the latter category, but that this ignores the confusion presented by the other toys.

The tag implication pegging -> sex (forum #210963) has been rejected by @Millcore.