Alias: ungulate -fancy arrow-> hooves

Reason:

It's where unguligrade went, so this is probably where it should go too.

(for some reason it keeps giving me a "PGError: ERROR: canceling statement due to statement timeout" when I try to suggest it using the alias tool)

Normally I'd agree for aliasing it to the same place. However, I think aliasing unguligrade to --> hooves was a bad idea to begin with, considering that even though they all have hooves, it still doesn't change the fact that those hooves are not always visible in the image (which is what the hooves tag is supposed to be reserved for: visible hooves). That's the whole reason why the hooved species' we have aren't actually implicated to the hooves tag. Under twys, something can be an ungulate or unguligrade by species, but not have any hooves visible in the picture because their hooves are off-screen or otherwise blocked from view.

So, based on this, I aliased ungulate to --> mammal. And I went ahead and did it because this same issue was recently discussed in forum #145901, and that went the same way for the same reasons. I did however make sure that the ones under ungulate which also had visible hooves got tagged with the hooves tag as well. It's worth noting that only 3/4ths of what was under there also fit the hooves tag.

I'm perfectly okay with this. I always thought having the hooves tag as a pseudo-species category was a little bit strange, but then again it's a pretty strange group of species. One of these days I need to finish getting everything together to reorganize the mammal wikis, but quirks like this have been a bit of a stumbling block (that and getting distracted with the gender project).

Hey, I was actually about to suggest a minor alias using the tool, but I might as well do that here instead while we're on the subject:

• canis -> canine

Edit: We should probably move unguligrade while we're at it for the reasons you've already mentioned.

parasprite said:
I'm perfectly okay with this. I always thought having the hooves tag as a pseudo-species category was a little bit strange, but then again it's a pretty strange group of species. One of these days I need to finish getting everything together to reorganize the mammal wikis, but quirks like this have been a bit of a stumbling block (that and getting distracted with the gender project).

Hey, I was actually about to suggest a minor alias using the tool, but I might as well do that here instead while we're on the subject:

• canis -> canine

Edit: We should probably move unguligrade while we're at it for the reasons you've already mentioned.

Yeah, that would make the most sense. Ok, alias of unguligrade moved to go to --> mammal instead.

Also alias of canis to --> canine is approved.

furrypickle said:
By the way, does anyone else feel like they learn to spell the weirdest words on this site? I swear, I probably would have gone my entire like without learning how to spell words like "unguligrade". lol

I don't think I'll ever remember how to spell that word. That said, there are a few words I'm sure I've learned... I just don't remember xD

Yep, for me there's a lot of those.
Membranous. Bioluminescence. Heterochromia.

But I still can't remember how to spell transclusent, and I wish we had gone with transparent (like the other major boards) for that tag group. :P

MFW I can't spell transparent most of the time for some reason. It's almost a sign that I need sleep because it seems like that's the first to go.

I've gotten pretty good at "ambiguous"...although I can't help but always follow it with an underscore.

so what if it's a dragon with hooves or something

ippiki_ookami said:
so what if it's a dragon with hooves or something

We tag it with hooves?

I mean, is this a trick question?

parasprite said:
We tag it with hooves?

I mean, is this a trick question?

well, dragons arent mammals, so aliasing unguligrade to mammal wont always be accurate

ippiki_ookami said:
well, dragons arent mammals, so aliasing unguligrade to mammal wont always be accurate

Did you read the alias suggestion backwards? It's unguligrade -> hooves, not hooves -> unguligrade.

...wait, why is this aliased, instead of implicated? Ungulate is a superorder (Not quite Order, but under the infraclass, whatever that means) of the Mammalia class. It includes perissodactyla, artiodactyla, tubulidentata, hyracoidea, sirenia, and proboscidea.
...Actually come to think of it that's a huuuge group with nothing in common, aside from being mammals, so I suppose it is a good thing to alias ungulate to mammal.

Unguligrade (not Ungulate) literally means "walks on hooves". It's not a species tag, it's same type of tag as digitigrade etc. So yeah, maybe it shouldn't be aliased to mammal. Hooved dragons are unguligrade, and someone might tag them as such..

ippiki_ookami said:
well, dragons arent mammals, so aliasing unguligrade to mammal wont always be accurate

I searched the tag history for the most current uses of "unguligrade" (before it was aliased away originally). It's mostly just down to one user, several years ago, so apparently it wasn't in frequent use to begin with. Of the uses at that time, none of the recent ones were on dragons. The closest was on a half-bull demon fucking a duck, so mammal would have been on there anyways. But there were at least three images in the last 30-ish uses (post #22962 post #22959 post #27027) where it was used on a hooved species where the actual hooves were off screen.

So based on that, I think having it go to hooves is far more likely to create the occasional mistag than having it go to mammal would. Mostly because 1, the word is uncommon to use and hard to spell, 2, it's been aliased away for ages so it's used even less now, and wasn't in common use back then either, 3, the most likely group to use unguligrade are biology majors who aren't likely to use it to describe a dragon. And 4, there's a lot more instances where the hooves are out of view and were tagged unguligrade, than they are instances of non-mammal creatures ever being tagged unguligrade.

TL;DR: Your average user is much more likely to use "hooves" when they see hooves, and the long-out-of-use unguligrade tag isn't likely to even come up. When it does come up, it's not likely to be used on non-mammals that aren't normally classified as "unguligrade" on any classifications chart, (things like dragons). But having unguligrade go to hooves only works on a "what you know" level and it muddies the use of hooves for "hooved creatures" instead of strictly for "visible hooves". Which has been a far more common mistagging problem for awhile now.

furrypickle said:
The closest was on a half-bull demon fucking a duck

I'm going to need that picture for scientific purposes.

parasprite said:
I'm going to need that picture for scientific purposes.

lol. Sadly this isn't as interesting as it sounds, since they're both anthro and cartoony: post #80259 . Still, the red guy does look like some kind of anthro demon/bull mixture.

furrypickle said:
anthro

:(

Could we at least alias unguligrade to digitigrade instead? I know it's not scientifically accurate to call an unguligrade a digitigrade, but people don't know (or care) about the difference anyway.

I just don't like it being aliased to mammal despite @furrypickle's arguments, otherwise at least alias it to invalid_tag.

equine_legs and unguligrade_legs (minor usage) could probably be aliased to digitigrade as well.

just what was exactly on peoples mind in thinking aliasing a general anatomical feature to a species made any sense at all lol?

This makes absolutely no sense. Ungulates are an order of creature. A species tag. How do you turn a species tag into "hooves " an anatomical feature.

GDelscribe said:
This makes absolutely no sense. Ungulates are an order of creature. A species tag. How do you turn a species tag into "hooves " an anatomical feature.

unguligrade A anatomical configuration of the legs. who ever aliased that to mammal was seriously not thinking strait and has probably created the biggest mess there is on this site as by far not all species that are unguligrade are mammals

GDelscribe said:
This makes absolutely no sense. Ungulates are an order of creature.

Yep, someone must've got unguligrade and ungulate mixed up.
'course, like Furrypickle said back then, it hasn't even actually been tagged much. So it's not really that much of a mess.

Genjar said:
Yep, someone must've got unguligrade and ungulate mixed up.
'course, like Furrypickle said back then, it hasn't even actually been tagged much. So it's not really that much of a mess.

Is there any way that this can get changed because it's very absolutely clearly wrong.

GDelscribe said:
Is there any way that this can get changed because it's very absolutely clearly wrong.

Sit tight, these things take their time.

Chessax said:
Sit tight, these things take their time.

Understandable.

Also, just because an ungulate is depicted doesn't mean it will actually have hooves. Someone might draw a deer with paws or something.

TonyLemur said:
Also, just because an ungulate is depicted doesn't mean it will actually have hooves. Someone might draw a deer with paws or something.

Or, of course, the feet just aren't present in the image.

GDelscribe said:
This makes absolutely no sense. Ungulates are an order of creature. A species tag. How do you turn a species tag into "hooves " an anatomical feature.

iirc previous usage attempted to mark it less as a feature and more as a species category (think scalies, hooves, etc.).

Not good reasoning mind you, but it might make more sense in that context.

Related reading:

forum #131327 - De-alias suggestion: unguligrade --/→ hooves (Jun. 2014)
forum #145901 - Ungulates and bovines (Dec. 2014)

forum #199251 - Antelope/Gazelle/Deer tagging confusion (Jul. 2016)
forum #28538 - Giraffes are not Equines. (Jan. 2012)

parasprite said:
iirc previous usage attempted to mark it less as a feature and more as a species category (think scalies, hooves, etc.).

Not good reasoning mind you, but it might make more sense in that context.

Maybe so. But it just makes little sense overall and its clearly not a good thing for the site.