I'm feeling anxious.

In category: Art Talk

I'm really afraid that if I post my stuff onto here it'll get downvoted to hell.


Relmie said:
I'm really afraid that if I post my stuff onto here it'll get downvoted to hell.

Just do it!

Criticism is a very important step to improvement, dood. ╹‿╹)

And trust me, Even if it does get downvoted at least you'll
know you had the courage to take such a leap in the first place
and be better prepared for anything like that in the future ◠‿◠)

Seriously m8, You can only grow from taking this chance!

Just take any negative in stride and- ◠‿╹)

Well, post somewhere else first so that an admin can let you know if it's good enough quality wise

Munkelzahn
Privileged
10 days ago

Clickbait always makes me feel anxious.
I'm afraid I might miss something if I don't click, and I feel manipulated if I do.


Munkelzahn said:
Clickbait always makes me feel anxious.
I'm afraid I might miss something if I don't click, and I feel manipulated if I do.

I just roll my eyes and click anyways. Then I can inwardly laugh as I clicked it to spite, which means I wasn't manipulated.


You will get what you deserve.


IMO it's obvious that an artist lacks objectivity on the quality of their own work. Hopefully it is also obvious that e621 is a (moderately selective) archive, not a gallery site.

To me, that means that the first 20 or so uploads of an artist's work should be done by someone other than that artist.. or, at least, they should get a few other informed persons to review any upload they are going to do, and take that feedback seriously (not necessarily to change their work -- I wouldn't recommend playing that popularity-contest game -- , but to know what kind of work is suitable for upload here)

I agree with Notka☆ on the importance of taking critique on the chin. I think that uploading without initial review is likely to get you flames and unnecessary public embarrassment rather than real critique, though.

While I can sympathize with worrying about getting downvoted, it's not obvious what the meaning of being downvoted to hell is. It certainly cannot be explained as simply as 'It means your art is shit' (this becomes quite obvious if you read some of the threads discussing how people vote or fav).

SnowWolf
Former Staff
10 days ago
black_fur blue_eyes blue_feathers blue_hair equine fan_character feathered_wings feathers female feral flying fur hair hi_res horn mammal multicolored_hair my_little_pony shilokh smile snowdrift snowflake solo star watermark white_feathers winged_unicorn wings

Rating: Safe
Score: 23
User: SnowWolf
Date: July 28, 2012

savageorange said:
To me, that means that the first 20 or so uploads of an artist's work should be done by someone other than that artist..

Dude. I have a list that's literally like 100 entries long of artists who are AWESOME but have no uploads here.

IMO it's obvious that an artist lacks objectivity on the quality of their own work. Hopefully it is also obvious that e621 is a (moderately selective) archive, not a gallery site.

That's...

... most artists hate what they draw. There's a common joke/meme that floats around artistic circles kinda joking around about how when they finish a project, they LOVE it and it's GREAT and then they collapse in bed asleep, wake up the next morning and see EVERYTHING wrong with it.

Artists have trouble being objective, yes. Every single artist in the world can tell you about the flaws in their work. "Ugh, I hate this one" they say, as everyone slams the like button. But you can also be proud about your work at the same time.

I don't think that most artists have SUCH an inflated sense of self worth that they think that their art is WORTHY of standing with all others on e6... it's that it really is not obvious that e621 is a curated archive.

After all, the front page has EVERYTHING uploaded, regardless of quality. And, at least right now, there are over 1600 images in status:pending ... so someone who comes by casually really can't get an idea of the quality standards.

The front page doens't say anything about it. Post page doesn't say anything. The upload page? doesn't say anything. the help link on the post page? doesn't say anything. Yu've gotta click on 'wiki' then 'uploading guidelines' before you find anything about it. and even then? "low quality submissions' seems to discuss *image quality, not content. the whole 'quality standards' section is rather vague and abbreviated, honestly, and you have to read through a page of text before you get down there.

(versus, for example, "e621 is a curated image archive and has a minimum standard of quality that not every image may possess. Each image is individually approved or denied by a member of the staff. Rejection of an image is not a rejection of the artist, however, in most cases, an artist should seek to improve further before uploading another image of similar quality. If you'd like more information about why your image was rejected, please message the staff member who deleted your post.")

We here in the forum are like the... .5% of people who really get into the inner workings of the websites. 90% of users have probably never even left a comment.

And some artists? have probably had it suggested to them that they come here and post to get more exposure. Because the more people who see your art the better. They're not (typically) dedicated e621 users. They're not typically the people you find in the forums, They're just the average joefur swinging on in to hopefully drum up some more commissions.

Ain't nothing wrong with that.

But honestly, it's not obvious.

That said...

I agree with Notka☆ on the importance of taking critique on the chin

This is extremly on the nose. Nokastar was totally awesome with what he said! I wish everyone could be so positive!! :D

Relmie said:
I'm really afraid that if I post my stuff onto here it'll get downvoted to hell.

Downvotes don't mean anything. they don't matter. unless you're uploading niche extreme content, you're not likely to be downvoted. Most peopel don't bother with downvotes unless they have a Strong Reaction to it.

But I can understand that it's scary anyway. Uploading any art anywhere is always scary. So I understand. (Seriously, I do. I've got a couple pieces of art kicking around on here and it was pretty scary to upload them.)

If you'd like someone's opinion before hand, you can PM me, and I'd be happy to have a peek and offer my two cents on your upload :)


SnowWolf said:
Dude. I have a list that's literally like 100 entries long of artists who are AWESOME but have no uploads here.

Number of uploads here is not clearly related to awesomeness.
But it is related to whether you have a list of examples of 'If I upload something like this, it will probably be received OK.'

SnowWolf
Former Staff
10 days ago
black_fur blue_eyes blue_feathers blue_hair equine fan_character feathered_wings feathers female feral flying fur hair hi_res horn mammal multicolored_hair my_little_pony shilokh smile snowdrift snowflake solo star watermark white_feathers winged_unicorn wings

Rating: Safe
Score: 23
User: SnowWolf
Date: July 28, 2012

savageorange said:
Number of uploads here is not clearly related to awesomeness.
But it is related to whether you have a list of examples of 'If I upload something like this, it will probably be received OK.'

... my point was that if those artists came here and used the metric of "has someone uploaded any of my art here" as a determination of if their artwork was good enough,they wouldn't.


SnowWolf said:
... my point was that if those artists came here and used the metric of "has someone uploaded any of my art here" as a determination of if their artwork was good enough,they wouldn't.

That's a misunderstanding; I never advocated any such thing.

Here's a paraphrasing of what I said above:

The artist should make sure the initial uploader of their work is not them, or if it is them, that they take care to get each candidate upload reviewed. I'd suggest this for the first 20 uploads, at least.

There is nothing in the original phrasing, or this paraphrasing, about accepting e621 as the judge of your art quality, only as the judge of what, of your artworks, is likely to be approved on e621. It intentionally rejects 'reading in meaning' in favor of the most basic practical interpretation: The fact of a post being approved or rejected constitutes information about whether posts like it will be approved or rejected. The person who causes that dataset to be created is ideally not the artist themselves, because the artist is the most emotionally invested and hence most likely to overreact.

TheHuskyK9
Former Staff
9 days ago
2018 4_toes anthro barefoot black_fur black_nose black_sclera canine claws clothed clothing conditional_dnp dog fur hi_res husky mammal meme pants plantigrade ratte standing thehuskyk9 toe_claws toes torn_clothing underwear yellow_eyes

Rating: Safe
Score: 23
User: TheHuskyK9
Date: April 15, 2018

Use downvotes as motivation to keep practicing and improving. My art was deleted for not meeting quality standards so I've been studying anatomy and shading to help produce better results

Muggi
Member
7 days ago

Hey, whats up?

So, I just got some motivation to upload something, but well, you see, this is the one and only furry site I have interest in.

So should I not post? I mean, I have really no worries about being downvoted, neither am afraid of critics or getting my art deleted, but since it's an "archive" and things can be excluded and deleted like this, is it even worth?

Doesn't seem like the place to start, but I don't have ANY interests in other sites. Them should I just give up?


I'm not sure anybody other than you can help you with that, other than asking questions; whether it is worth it depends entirely on what kind of goal you are trying to pursue by doing it, and how that goal fits into your life.

Is art for you primarily about getting attention, or about self-development? Or some particular mix of them? Or something else entirely?

What do you mean by interest? You state that you have interest in this site, and not in other sites.
What specifically is it that differentiates these sites, that e621 has and the other sites don't? How much experience do you have with each of these sites?


Muggi said:
Hey, whats up?

So, I just got some motivation to upload something, but well, you see, this is the one and only furry site I have interest in.

So should I not post? I mean, I have really no worries about being downvoted, neither am afraid of critics or getting my art deleted, but since it's an "archive" and things can be excluded and deleted like this, is it even worth?

Doesn't seem like the place to start, but I don't have ANY interests in other sites. Them should I just give up?

If you really don't care that you're risking getting them deleted and having them exist nowhere on the web, then go ahead. The "Avoid deletion" is the whole point in recommending it elsewhere.

Muggi
Member
6 days ago

savageorange said:
I'm not sure anybody other than you can help you with that, other than asking questions; whether it is worth it depends entirely on what kind of goal you are trying to pursue by doing it, and how that goal fits into your life.

Is art for you primarily about getting attention, or about self-development? Or some particular mix of them? Or something else entirely?

What do you mean by interest? You state that you have interest in this site, and not in other sites.
What specifically is it that differentiates these sites, that e621 has and the other sites don't? How much experience do you have with each of these sites?

I'll try to keep it simple: I intend to give life to my ideas, but I'm not super sentimental over those drawings. The biggest goal for me is to have some fun, I have no intention on going around saying "I'm an artist, my art is the best".

Also I just look up this site, and it's just enought for me. By no interest in other sites, I mean: what for? I have all I need here.

I don't want to make this all about me, but I do need to understand if it's an patter or standard that get the pictures deleted. If not, Maybe I'll just keep it to myself.


Muggi said:
I'll try to keep it simple: I intend to give life to my ideas, but I'm not super sentimental over those drawings. The biggest goal for me is to have some fun, I have no intention on going around saying "I'm an artist, my art is the best".

I think most artists would disagree with the sentiment "my art is the best". What I meant to point at was that artists do often attempt to match what they draw with what their audience is asking for, which I interpret as an attempt to gain more attention.

Also I just look up this site, and it's just enought for me. By no interest in other sites, I mean: what for? I have all I need here.

I guess that depends on what it is that you think you have here.
Given what you have said so far, I would expect a reply like 'Just a place for people to see my stuff. I'm not looking especially for quality feedback or a lot of social interaction'.

That is what I think you would get out of e621 for those works which pass quality standards. If you want a site where people can see *all* your stuff, then a gallery site is required, not e621.

I don't want to make this all about me, but I do need to understand if it's an patter or standard that get the pictures deleted. If not, Maybe I'll just keep it to myself.

Standards are generally what gets pictures deleted. The quality standards are found here in the uploading guidelines. If you want perspective on what kind of thing ends up being disputed in relation to those standards, there are a good variety of examples in the forums, eg. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 (all from searching 'quality' keyword)..

Standards are not particularly high in my opinion (and others have expressed a similar opinion, including the moderators who actually have to approve or reject posts). My observation of incidents where people get upset about quality based rejections, is that while the standard is not high, it is broad. By that I mean that there are a bunch of things and you should be doing them ALL ok. If your design and linework and colors are ok, but your anatomy is notably broken, that post might be rejected. And there's no guarantee that the artist knows their anatomy is broken (otherwise, they would probably fix it). So you have to assume a certain degree of trial-and-error.

IMO most artists starting out could expect to have some posts deleted, because the work clears some of the bars but fails others.

If you're worried about subject-matter based deletion or moderator grudges, in my observation there is no evidence of them. Deletions are generally on pretty clear objective grounds (post is DnP/screencap/meme/ad, image is tiny, quality is notably lacking, etc).

Muggi
Member
6 days ago

Thank you! That was super helpful. :)


To be honest, you should have described your artwork here. So some people would be able to tell you where it'd go. Sometimes it's not the quality of the actual artwork, but the content which leads to downvotes.