SnowWolf
Contributor
24 days ago
black_fur blue_eyes blue_feathers blue_hair equine fan_character feathered_wings feathers female feral flying fur hair hi_res horn mammal multicolored_hair my_little_pony shilokh smile snowdrift snowflake solo star watermark white_feathers winged_unicorn wings

Rating: Safe
Score: 20
User: SnowWolf
Date: July 28, 2012

BlueDingo said:
How isn't it? Last time I checked, being completely unclothed (ie. nude) applied to cartoon characters as well.

A crotch with no genitals on it is still a crotch.

You're trying to complicate the meaning of nudity by adding a genital requirement to it when all it means is "without clothing or coverings".

Yes, but we're talking about it all in terms of being a nudist. Is bugs bunny really a nudist because he never wears clothes, even when Elmer Fudd does? What about when Lola's right next to him? By all accounts, that's casual_nudity... but is daffy duck's saturday morning cartoon crotch really what someone is looking for when they search for casual nudity?

My post wasn't really about how Bugs Bunny isn't *actually* nude so much as that he's not a nudist. He's not really exposing anything, no one's taken by surprise by him. He's just wearing what boy rabbits wear.

It's kinda in the same vein as how we were all agreeing that a character who is being sexual should probably not be called a nudist, y'know?

ikdind said:
I suppose the counter argument, though, is that tags should should also generally align with what a person is looking for. Maybe bugs_bunny nude should be a redundant pair of search terms, but it potentially pollutes the search results for, say, lola_bunny nude with any picture containing bugs_bunny.

But hey, I'm good at over-analyzing and over-complicating things, and totally willing to acknowledge that a simpler rule may be better overall. And it was really meant more as a tangent to further contextualize my thoughts about nudist than a serious suggestion to potentially redefine nude.

Although, if we do feel that bugs_bunny is usually nude, there's a good page's worth of images that need to be updated under bugs_bunny -nude. Actually, looking through that, I'd say there's a good number of images that need the nude tag anyways.

This! :)

A day later, I still feel like 'nudist' is potentially redundant and replaceable with a collection of other tags... like public_nudity, casual_nudity (and, of course, nude where applicable)

I also wanna point out that featureless_breasts and featureless_crotch are woefully undertagged too (As.... sonic, bugs, daffy and many many others parade around in their fur and feathers regularly and are not tagged with featureless parts. They're also not always tagged 'nude' either. (Oh my gosh, and that's not EVEN talking about My little Pony...)

I'm not saying that we NEED a tag for rating:s nude featureless_crotch or whatever. Mostly I"m just thinking out loud about aspects of the tags in question. I"m not saying I'm right and everyone who disagrees is wrong. Just thinking outloud.

Genjar
Former Staff
24 days ago
2011 annoyed antennae arthropod biped black_markings blue_eyes clear_membrane clothed clothing crossed_arms cute duo feral front_view green_body human insect insect_wings lifting lol_comments male mammal markings moth nisimawari pellucid_hawk_moth portrait quadruped shirt shorts simple_background solo_focus spread_wings standing three-quarter_portrait three-quarter_view traditional_media_(artwork) watercolor_(artwork) white_background wings

Rating: Safe
Score: 253
User: Genjar
Date: May 29, 2013

SnowWolf said:
I also wanna point out that featureless_breasts and featureless_crotch are woefully undertagged too (As.... sonic, bugs, daffy and many many others parade around in their fur and feathers regularly and are not tagged with featureless parts.

If the breasts and crotch are covered by fur or feathers, I'd consider it to be naturally_censored instead of featureless. Although featureless_* might apply more widely, personally I've only tagged it for barbie-doll anatomy.

BlueDingo
Privileged
24 days ago
2013 5_fingers abs anthro athletic canine claws collarbone cute dingo front_view fur gloves_(marking) half-length_portrait holding_arm imiak inner_ear_fluff looking_at_viewer male mammal markings navel nipples nude peachez pecs pink_eyes pink_fur pink_nose portrait pose shy solo tan_fur v-cut

Rating: Safe
Score: 28
User: flux_capacitor
Date: March 02, 2013

Genjar said:
If the breasts and crotch are covered by fur or feathers, I'd consider it to be naturally_censored instead of featureless. Although featureless_* might apply more widely, personally I feel that it's only worth tagging for barbie-doll anatomy.

Wouldn't that depend on the amount of fur or feathers in those areas? A noticeable tuft of it would suggest naturally_censored while a fairly low amount would suggest featureless_crotch. To me at least, it would come down to whether it looks like there's enough there to cover whatever's underneath it. For example:

2016 5_fingers abstract_background anthro beige_skin big_eyes big_head blue_fur blue_hair clothing duo featureless_crotch fur gloves green_eyes grey_eyes grey_nose hair hand_on_hip hedgehog legwear looking_at_viewer male mammal mostly_nude open_mouth open_smile ring smile socks sonic_(series) sonic_the_hedgehog square_crossover standing toony v_sign video_games waving white_armwear white_clothing white_legwear ねる

Rating: Safe
Score: 5
User: Kario-xi
Date: December 29, 2016 ← I wouldn't consider that naturally_censored due to how thin the fur looks.
2013 4_fingers 5_toes anklet anthro artgerm barefoot biceps bigfoot biped brown_nose clenched_teeth copyright_name darkstalkers digital_media_(artwork) empty_eyes fangs feet fist fluffy fur humanoid_feet humanoid_hands jewelry kick male mammal muscular muscular_male naturally_censored nude on_one_leg plantigrade raised_arm red_eyes sasquatch snout soft_shading solo standing tan_skin teeth toes triceps video_games watermark white_fur zoom_layer

Rating: Safe
Score: 3
User: BlueDingo
Date: November 23, 2016 ← This, on the other hand...

SnowWolf
Contributor
23 days ago
black_fur blue_eyes blue_feathers blue_hair equine fan_character feathered_wings feathers female feral flying fur hair hi_res horn mammal multicolored_hair my_little_pony shilokh smile snowdrift snowflake solo star watermark white_feathers winged_unicorn wings

Rating: Safe
Score: 20
User: SnowWolf
Date: July 28, 2012

Genjar said:
If the breasts and crotch are covered by fur or feathers, I'd consider it to be naturally_censored instead of featureless. Although featureless_* might apply more widely, personally I've only tagged it for barbie-doll anatomy.

Fair! though there are only 1500 naturally_censored pictures out there--another tag for the tagging pile!

Also, Agreed with BlueDingo on the contrast of featureless versus naturally :)


SnowWolf said:
I also wanna point out that featureless_breasts and featureless_crotch are woefully undertagged too....

Indeed, there are plenty of posts that are applicable to one or both of those tags. It's unfortunate how uncommonly these tags are added to posts (or at least, less commonly that I would hope).


Backing up to my previous post...

Nudism is a choice: the conscious decision to not wear clothes, regardless of where or with whom (but let's exclude obvious stuff like bathing). Doesn't matter if the nude character is never expected to wear clothes as long as they could. In our tagging system, I would say a lot of cartoon characters are nude by choice, which is casual_nudity/nudist. We're supposed to strip characters of canon expectations with TWYS anyway, meaning we tag posts as we see them in isolation.

I will say, for cartoons, that some difficulty crops up because the characters are often semi-anthro, and it's usually not possible to infer any clothing norms from them. Anthros, humanoids, and such usually appear and behave similar enough to humans that we will likely subconsciously infer human clothing norms upon them, which is fine and functional. However, semi-anthros, ferals, arguably taurs, and so on don't have bodies that neatly accept our clothing norms, so I find it redundant to even tag them nude, let alone approach ideas of nudism. In other words, tagging a feral nude doesn't add much information--it's a "no shit..." moment--but clothed_feral (real tag) is worth noting as should be clothed_* variants for the other major species archetypes.

That's the issue I've come across when I suggest to myself that Garfield is canonically casually_nude to see if the idea sticks. In a pinch, though, a seemingly bipedal Garfield should be okay if tagged casual_nudity.

@ social_nudity

That's largely redundant with public_nudity, which covers solo nudist too but excludes group nudism in private settings (e.g., at home, in nondescript rooms). Sure, private_nudity could be a tag if covering all bases is important. Why not? mixed_nudity for groups with casual_nudity and clothed regardless of setting? Take your pick.

@ featureless_crotch

Well, that's a very specific area whereas nude describes an entire character. They can overlap. I've never assumed that a character with a featureless_crotch doesn't have genitalia, just that the genitalia has been "arted out" for convenience. casual_nudity/nudist can still apply.

Here's a test: A real edge case for casual_nudity/nudist is a nude marine anthro that's underwater, with no beach, swimming_pool, or boat in sight. Are they casually nude, or is that their natural state in their natural habitat?

2017 anthro cetacean fin hair heterochromia hybrid male mammal marine nude open_mouth orca shawnthegirl skunk solo tail_fin underwater water webbed_hands whale white_hair

Rating: Safe
Score: 3
User: Googlipod
Date: September 26, 2017 4_toes 5_fingers aaros anthro aquatic_dragon armband athletic belt blue_skin claws collar day detailed_background diving dragon fangs featureless_crotch fin firebirddragon grin hi_res ladon_(character) legband male mane markings navel nude outside pecs scalie sea sky smile solo spines swimming tailband thick_tail toe_claws toes underwater water webbed_hands webbing

Rating: Safe
Score: 21
User: Ladon_Dragon
Date: August 29, 2017 anthro aquatic_dragon centrifuge clownfish dragon fish horn latex_(artist) male marine nude rubber scalie sky swimming underwater water wingless_dragon

Rating: Safe
Score: 18
User: slyroon
Date: December 03, 2015

And, no, I find myself unable to comment on their possible societal clothing norms, so casual_nudity/nudist does not make sense, only nude does.

BlueDingo
Privileged
15 days ago
2013 5_fingers abs anthro athletic canine claws collarbone cute dingo front_view fur gloves_(marking) half-length_portrait holding_arm imiak inner_ear_fluff looking_at_viewer male mammal markings navel nipples nude peachez pecs pink_eyes pink_fur pink_nose portrait pose shy solo tan_fur v-cut

Rating: Safe
Score: 28
User: flux_capacitor
Date: March 02, 2013

abadbird said:
Here's a test: A real edge case for casual_nudity/nudist is a nude marine anthro that's underwater, with no beach, swimming_pool, or boat in sight. Are they casually nude, or is that their natural state in their natural habitat?

2017 anthro cetacean fin hair heterochromia hybrid male mammal marine nude open_mouth orca shawnthegirl skunk solo tail_fin underwater water webbed_hands whale white_hair

Rating: Safe
Score: 3
User: Googlipod
Date: September 26, 2017 4_toes 5_fingers aaros anthro aquatic_dragon armband athletic belt blue_skin claws collar day detailed_background diving dragon fangs featureless_crotch fin firebirddragon grin hi_res ladon_(character) legband male mane markings navel nude outside pecs scalie sea sky smile solo spines swimming tailband thick_tail toe_claws toes underwater water webbed_hands webbing

Rating: Safe
Score: 21
User: Ladon_Dragon
Date: August 29, 2017 anthro aquatic_dragon centrifuge clownfish dragon fish horn latex_(artist) male marine nude rubber scalie sky swimming underwater water wingless_dragon

Rating: Safe
Score: 18
User: slyroon
Date: December 03, 2015

The casual_nudity tag doesn't take into account whether or not they normally wear clothes or live in a society where they're supposed to. As long as they're nude and being casual about it, it's casual nudity.

Nudist would be impossible to tell without reading the character's mind first since nudism is a lifestyle choice.

abadbird said:
However, semi-anthros, ferals, arguably taurs, and so on don't have bodies that neatly accept our clothing norms, so I find it redundant to even tag them nude, let alone approach ideas of nudism. In other words, tagging a feral nude doesn't add much information--it's a "no shit..." moment--but clothed_feral (real tag) is worth noting as should be clothed_* variants for the other major species archetypes.

Whether or not they normally (or ever) wear clothes is irrelevant. If they're depicted without clothing, they're nude and should be tagged as such. Not doing so means having a double standard for what nude things do and don't get the tag, and we're supposed to avoid double standards if possible.


abadbird said:

▼ Click to collapse

@ social_nudity

That's largely redundant with public_nudity, which covers solo nudist too but excludes group nudism in private settings (e.g., at home, in nondescript rooms). Sure, private_nudity could be a tag if covering all bases is important. Why not? mixed_nudity for groups with casual_nudity and clothed regardless of setting? Take your pick.

▼ Click to collapse

Here's a test: A real edge case for casual_nudity/nudist is a nude marine anthro that's underwater, with no beach, swimming_pool, or boat in sight. Are they casually nude, or is that their natural state in their natural habitat?

2017 anthro cetacean fin hair heterochromia hybrid male mammal marine nude open_mouth orca shawnthegirl skunk solo tail_fin underwater water webbed_hands whale white_hair

Rating: Safe
Score: 3
User: Googlipod
Date: September 26, 2017 4_toes 5_fingers aaros anthro aquatic_dragon armband athletic belt blue_skin claws collar day detailed_background diving dragon fangs featureless_crotch fin firebirddragon grin hi_res ladon_(character) legband male mane markings navel nude outside pecs scalie sea sky smile solo spines swimming tailband thick_tail toe_claws toes underwater water webbed_hands webbing

Rating: Safe
Score: 21
User: Ladon_Dragon
Date: August 29, 2017 anthro aquatic_dragon centrifuge clownfish dragon fish horn latex_(artist) male marine nude rubber scalie sky swimming underwater water wingless_dragon

Rating: Safe
Score: 18
User: slyroon
Date: December 03, 2015

And, no, I find myself unable to comment on their possible societal clothing norms, so casual_nudity/nudist does not make sense, only nude does.

Though the two tags do overlap to an extent, I don't think social_nudity would be redundant with public_nudity in the way I had defined social_nudity previously. And mixed_nudity as a tag may be a good idea for the purpose of covering all bases (though it's fairly convenient to just search 'nude clothed' for some such posts), though private_nudity is itself pretty well covered by searching 'solo nude'.

Though it makes sense to exclude the nudist tag from these particular marine posts, casual_nudity does apply to these posts. Based on the wiki for casual_nudity it is to be applied "where the characters are nude in non-sexual situations."

BlueDingo said:

▼ Click to collapse

The casual_nudity tag doesn't take into account whether or not they normally wear clothes or live in a society where they're supposed to. As long as they're nude and being casual about it, it's casual nudity.

Whether or not they normally (or ever) wear clothes is irrelevant. If they're depicted without clothing, they're nude and should be tagged as such. Not doing so means having a double standard for what nude things do and don't get the tag, and we're supposed to avoid double standards if possible.

I definitely agree with you on casual_nudity, as well as with tagging nude for feral and cartoon-styled characters. It may be common or considered the norm to be without clothes for those characters, but being without clothes is still being nude.

For consideration, because I have feelings and opinions about this and I want to share them, here's something I had previously posted on here. This is what I look for when I consider adding any of these tags to a post, but I'm posting it again here because I think it can be a good guide for defining or editing the wiki entries as they currently stand. I'd love to get y'all's opinions and perspectives on this:

▼ Click to collapse

nude: A character without any clothing.
mostly_nude: A character with some clothing, but still have well over half their body unclothed.
nudist: Multiple characters within a non-sexual social setting (public or private).
casual_nudity: One or more nude characters within a non-sexual setting (public or private).
casual_exposure: One or more partially nude characters within a non-sexual setting (public or private).
ineffective_clothing: One or more partially nude characters (public or private, sexual or non-sexual)
public_nudity: One or more nude characters in a public setting (sexual or non-sexual).
exhibitionism: One or more characters (clothed or nude) engaging in sexual activity in front of one or more other characters (public or private setting).
social_nudity: When multiple characters (2 or more) are engaged in casual_nudity within the post.

*Note that I added social_nudity to the list since it's been discussed in this thread after I originally wrote it.