How should the 'nudist' tag be used for these posts?

In category: Tag/Wiki Projects and Questions

Forewarning: There's no TL;DR, so be prepared for an escalator full of text!

I’ve been wanting to go through and clean up the nudist tag for some time now. There are several sexually explicit posts currently tagged as nudist that shouldn’t be, along with other posts that would be better suited for the pose or pinup tags. But I’ve been held up from cleaning the tag due to uncertainty on how the nudist tag should be applied to certain content within some posts. I’d really like and appreciate any and all advice y'all can give on what to do with these:

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1) Nudist Characters Doing Nothing

▼ Images

2014 abigail_(jay_naylor) alice_(jay_naylor) amanda_(jay_naylor) angelica_(jay_naylor) anthro aron_(jay_naylor) audrey_(jay_naylor) bethany_(jay_naylor) black_and_white black_hair brice_swanson canine carlos_(jay_naylor) cat charlie_(jay_naylor) clothed clothing computer conditional_dnp daniel_keyes digital_media_(artwork) digitigrade dog ear_piercing elizabeth_black eyebrows eyelashes eyewear facial_piercing family_tree feline female female/female fisk_black fur genwyn glasses goth grace_jones_(jay_naylor) group hair half-closed_eyes hi_res hoodie human hyena inez_hardin jacket janie_(jay_naylor) jay_naylor jeffery_(jay_naylor) jessica_(jay_naylor) justin_hardin kavek lagomorph leo_(jay_naylor) letter long_hair lucy_erickson_(jay_naylor) lynne machine male male/female mammal mary mature_female miko_(jay_naylor) monochrome mother mouse multicolored_fur mustelid nose_piercing open_mouth otter parent piercing rabbit red_(jay_naylor) red_panda robert_(jay_naylor) rodent septum_piercing shirt short_hair sibling simple_background sissy_(jay_naylor) smile smoking spots spotted_fur stacy_(jay_naylor) summer_moon-keyes text thomas_(jay_naylor) tommy_erickson trixie_(jay_naylor) twins victor white_background wolf zoe_(jay_naylor)

Rating: Safe
Score: 16
User: Noah_Black
Date: February 10, 2014

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I wasn’t sure if posts with a canonically nudist character in the nude should be given the nudist tag, even if the character appears to be doing nothing but posing.

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2) Nudist Characters in Sexual Situations

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Whether it be striking a lewd pose, masturbation, or sex, such content would typically be strong indicators NOT to add nudist to a post. But what should be done when a nudist character is engaged in lewd behavior? Should nudist still be added because the character is canonically a nudist, or should nudist not be added because of the suggestive or sexual content?

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3) Characters with Some Clothing

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Fully clothed characters obviously shouldn’t be tagged as nudist. But what about characters wearing some articles of clothing, including topless and bottomless characters?

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4) Suggestive Situations, Poses and/or Angles

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Sexual stuff is pretty much voided entirely under the nudist tag, but how does this rule apply to sexually suggestive content that isn’t explicitly sexual?

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5) Mixed Sexual/Non-Sexual Situations

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What should be done when characters participating in nudism are in the same post featuring characters having sex?

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6) Solo Characters

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For a single solitary nude character (often on a simple background) that seems to be posing, and nothing else. Should we tag these kinds of posts as nudist, or should we stick with using pinup and pose for these posts?


Nudist and casual_nudity need to be cleaned up.
Although I am not sure if this is 100% the way the site sees these tags(Nimmy will have to weigh in), i do not think they should be tagged if a image contains sexual content(solo or not).


I'd keep the nudist tags completely separate from explicitly sexual situations, but would allow them broadly for basically everything else. Including suggestive images and poses.

As such, nude people groping each other or having sex shouldn't get the tag (and instead exhibitionism if they're in public). All other situations where a character is nude when they normally should be dressed deserve the nudist tag.


Chaser said:
Nudist and casual_nudity need to be cleaned up.
Although I am not sure if this is 100% the way the site sees these tags(Nimmy will have to weigh in), i do not think they should be tagged if a image contains sexual content(solo or not).

I, too, would be interested in the admins' take, and would be interested in helping with a cleanup project. I feel D.D.M. makes a strong case that nudist is way overused from a mix of "what we know" and simple misuse, as opposed to "what we can see."

(Edit: Oh hey, NMNY replied while I was working on this reply.)

I can see how all the posts in section 5 acquired the nudist tag, because there are many casually nude characters in them, but most of the others only seem have nudist because someone would have gone "Oh, that character's a nudist because (insert link to FA)." post #440924 happens to directly label one of the characters as a nudist, but I forget what the site's tagging guidelines are for that case.

But in the end, I feel like if I were searching for nudist, I would be looking for images depicting society in which nudity is the norm, rather than characters just being nude.

▼ So even though these are sexual, they seem nudist


The characters that are the focus really don't read either way to me, but the background suggests a society where nudity is normal.

In the first case, background characters are nude and displaying a spectrum of reactions from interest to discomfort and concern over the subjects' sexual actions, which suggests that public nudity is normal, but public sex acts are not. I can understand the argument that this may just be a nude beach, and to that point the lifeguard is wearing swim trunks. Maybe this is ultimately more borderline.

The latter image seems to depict some kind of adult entertainment festival in a nudist colony. Everyone is casually nude, and there isn't much of anything to suggest that clothing is at all normal in their corner of society. Unless it'd be disqualified for having sexual content, this seems comfortably nudist.

▼ This seems arguably nudist


Couple of guys out on a jog, happen to be (mostly) nude (minimal, almost purely-functional clothing). Suggests to me that nudity in their society is normal. But I feel it starts to toe the line between nudist and being too specific and sexualized.

▼ This seems ambiguous to me, but I would "get" the nudist label


I mean, lots of casually bottomless dudebros in a non-sexual situation, so I get how that can read as "nudist", but it seems like clothing is normal even within their clique, much less the society they'd be part of. Especially with the fully-clothed guy with the plastic bag. I wouldn't personally tag this as nudist, but I wouldn't remove the tag from it, either. I'd let more invested parties hash it out.

▼ And I kinda sorta "get" this one, but I wouldn't have called it nudist


Casually devoid of clothing below the waist, but in the end it's a single character, I would think of it more like a male pin-up or other posed shot. I don't really read anything that suggests this guy is part of a nude society.

And everything else not otherwise mentioned (e.g. not from section 5 or the post #440924 corner-case) aren't even arguably or ambiguously nudist, to me.

Genjar
Former Staff
28 days ago
2011 annoyed antennae arthropod biped black_markings blue_eyes clear_membrane clothed clothing crossed_arms cute duo feral front_view green_body human insect insect_wings lifting lol_comments male mammal markings moth nisimawari pellucid_hawk_moth portrait quadruped shirt shorts simple_background solo_focus spread_wings standing three-quarter_portrait three-quarter_view traditional_media_(artwork) watercolor_(artwork) white_background wings

Rating: Safe
Score: 253
User: Genjar
Date: May 29, 2013

NotMeNotYou said:
All other situations where a character is nude when they normally should be dressed deserve the nudist tag.

The public_nudity tag already exists for that purpose, though.


Genjar said:
The public_nudity tag already exists for that purpose, though.

I think public nudity is only a subsection of nudism. If you see someone cooking while nude, that's not public nudity but probably qualifies as nudist.

Personally I think the most similar tag to nudist that we've got is casual_nudity rather than public_nudity.

Munkelzahn
Privileged
28 days ago

Clawdragons said:
I think public nudity is only a subsection of nudism. If you see someone cooking while nude, that's not public nudity but probably qualifies as nudist.

Personally I think the most similar tag to nudist that we've got is casual_nudity rather than public_nudity.

now we can have a discussion about what counts as private nudism
showering nude - probably not
on the other hand, showering nude in a public shower probably counts (not something i would do, for fear of being beaten up as gay, but i've heard it's more common in women's showers)
sleeping nude - maybe?


Munkelzahn said:
now we can have a discussion about what counts as private nudism
showering nude - probably not
sleeping nude - maybe?

I know that plenty of people sleep nude despite not being nudists, so I'd exclude that. I'd tend to think that the tag would most useful when it is more narrow.

Cooking, cleaning, playing video games, reading a book, eating, talking on the phone / to another person... Off the top of my head, if nude, the participant in each of those would get the nudist tag.

SnowWolf
Contributor
28 days ago
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Rating: Safe
Score: 20
User: SnowWolf
Date: July 28, 2012

I feel like people searching for 'nudist' over 'nude' will want pictures where there's public nudity, without exhibition necessarily being involved. (thought I think that sex CAN happen on a nudist beach, but not all beach-sex is nudist.)

I feel like context is the most important part though -- in particular really stands out to me. Where is he? How is this nudist? he could be in his bedroom, his backyard, the middle of Times Square, or even a photoshoot. There's no context. Considering this COULD just be him jamming out to his favorite music, it's hard to say this is nudist. He is, though, nude.

To directly address:

1) These characters are nude. Except the Jay Naylor picture. THAT oen might be nudist. Text saying "nudist" doens't make someone a nudist. :)
2) Most of these are jsut nude. I might give an exception to the yoga-cat, the cook and the girl on her bed.
3) In order: She doens't seem like a nudist, more like she passed out before she could put pants on. The dude bros are totally nudest though. Runner is 'meh", while the covering cat girl seems very uncomfortable with being topless. The 'Tuar... I dunno. I'd say tha'ts more a case of clothing being impracticle. She's got thick fur and it's clearly spring.
4) Again, in order: Yes, because she's standing by a sign that says nude beach. No, because he could be anywhere. She... maybe. In the tiki hut, yeah, she might be nudist, but this might be exhibitionism instead. nope and maybe.
5) Yes, because the group in the back is nudist. Might be-- they don't seem to wear clothes in their world. Ditto.
6) Generally, no.

..... over all, it seems like there might be one or two too many tags here.. let's see...

nude ← Obviously, for people without clothes.
nudist ← wikipedia describes it as a cultural movement advocating personal and social nudity. So... nudity, when most people are not nude.
casual_nudity ← To me, this is the world where no one wears clothing, or at least, no one on this couch watching a movie is. (wiki says "non-sexual" and that 'no one else is concerned')
public_nudity ← To me, this describes an individual who is nude in a setting where most are not--typically for the thrill of it. May be exhibitionist
mostly_nude ← Apparently this is for character who's torsos are generally uncovered.

Well, most of those seem pretty reasonable, actually. Though most of the tags seem pretty messy in general.

So, going back to your posts...

1) a - nude ... b - Nude, nudist, public_nudity .. c) nude .. d) none
2) a - nude ... b - nude ... c - nude, nudist, casual_nudity ... d - nudist ... e - nude ... d - nude
3) a - nude, casual nudity ... b - nudist, casual nudity ... c - casual_nudity ... d - none of the above ... e - casual nudity, mostly nude
4) a - nude, nudist, public nudity ... b- nude, c - nude, nudist, public nudity, d - nude, public nudity, e - nude d - casual_nudity
5) a - nude, nudist, exhibitionism, casual nudity, b - nude, nudist, casual nudity c - nude, nudist, casual_nudity, exhibitionism
6) All of these are just 'nude' to me. E is 'mostly_nude.

And that's my 2 cents, anyway.

Genjar
Former Staff
28 days ago
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Rating: Safe
Score: 253
User: Genjar
Date: May 29, 2013

SnowWolf said:
I feel like people searching for 'nudist' over 'nude' will want pictures where there's public nudity, without exhibition necessarily being involved. (thought I think that sex CAN happen on a nudist beach, but not all beach-sex is nudist.)

Sounds reasonable. Other uses are already covered by other tags, so limiting it to social situations seems like a good niche for the nudist tag.

Nudity within the privacy of one's own home doesn't feel like nudism to me. As was pointed out, plenty of people sleep in the buff but aren't nudists. So I wouldn't tag those as such, unless it seems like a social thing (whole family doing daily chores nude, etc). Though that does overlap with casual_nudity.

..... over all, it seems like there might be one or two too many tags here.. let's see...

nude ← Obviously, for people without clothes.
nudist ← wikipedia describes it as a cultural movement advocating personal and social nudity. So... nudity, when most people are not nude.
casual_nudity ← To me, this is the world where no one wears clothing, or at least, no one on this couch watching a movie is. (wiki says "non-sexual" and that 'no one else is concerned')
public_nudity ← To me, this describes an individual who is nude in a setting where most are not--typically for the thrill of it. May be exhibitionist
mostly_nude ← Apparently this is for character who's torsos are generally uncovered.

Well, most of those seem pretty reasonable, actually. Though most of the tags seem pretty messy in general.

Yeah, those have gone through multiple revisions and the current system is working okay-ish.

Mostly_nude was created to stop users from tagging those as nude (since nude is supposed to be strictly for 'no clothes at all'). There's still occasional mistags, but it's not as bad as it used to be. There's also a related tag group under naked_*, but we've been talking about moving those to '*_only' (naked_hat > hat_only, etc) to make the usage clearer.

BlueDingo
Privileged
28 days ago
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Rating: Safe
Score: 28
User: flux_capacitor
Date: March 02, 2013

D.D.M. said:
3) Characters with Some Clothing

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Fully clothed characters obviously shouldn’t be tagged as nudist. But what about characters wearing some articles of clothing, including topless and bottomless characters?

This is what I created the casual_exposure tag for, it's basically the clothed equivalent of casual_nudity since casual nudity is meant to be... well... nude, and they're not exactly nude if they're wearing a t-shirt or something.

BlueDingo
Privileged
28 days ago
2013 5_fingers abs anthro athletic canine claws collarbone cute dingo front_view fur gloves_(marking) half-length_portrait holding_arm imiak inner_ear_fluff looking_at_viewer male mammal markings navel nipples nude peachez pecs pink_eyes pink_fur pink_nose portrait pose shy solo tan_fur v-cut

Rating: Safe
Score: 28
User: flux_capacitor
Date: March 02, 2013

SnowWolf said:
I feel like context is the most important part though -- in particular really stands out to me. Where is he? How is this nudist? he could be in his bedroom, his backyard, the middle of Times Square, or even a photoshoot. There's no context. Considering this COULD just be him jamming out to his favorite music, it's hard to say this is nudist. He is, though, nude.

I'd file that one under casual_nudity since there's nothing sexual happening here. He's just dancing to music.


Thank y'all for your input!

SnowWolf said:

▼ Click to collapse

..... over all, it seems like there might be one or two too many tags here.. let's see...

nude ← Obviously, for people without clothes.
nudist ← wikipedia describes it as a cultural movement advocating personal and social nudity. So... nudity, when most people are not nude.
casual_nudity ← To me, this is the world where no one wears clothing, or at least, no one on this couch watching a movie is. (wiki says "non-sexual" and that 'no one else is concerned')
public_nudity ← To me, this describes an individual who is nude in a setting where most are not--typically for the thrill of it. May be exhibitionist
mostly_nude ← Apparently this is for character who's torsos are generally uncovered.

Well, most of those seem pretty reasonable, actually. Though most of the tags seem pretty messy in general.

Genjar said:

Yeah, those have gone through multiple revisions and the current system is working okay-ish.

Indeed they can be messy, but at least they're no where near as bad as the tasteful_nudity tag was. Anyways, here's my personal view of these tag's use. These are also the main elements I look for before I decide to add any one of these tags to a post.

▼ Click to collapse

nude: A character without any clothing.
mostly_nude: A character with some clothing, but still have well over half their body unclothed.
nudist: Multiple characters within a non-sexual social setting (public or private).
casual_nudity: One or more nude characters within a non-sexual setting (public or private).
casual_exposure: One or more partially nude characters within a non-sexual setting (public or private).
ineffective_clothing: One or more partially nude characters (public or private, sexual or non-sexual)
public_nudity: One or more nude characters in a public setting (sexual or non-sexual).
exhibitionism: One or more characters (clothed or nude) engaging in sexual activity in front of one or more other characters (public or private setting).

As a side note, I wrote the wiki for nudist (which states 'a character, or group of characters') and derived the definition from the article on Wikipedia. According to Wikipedia nudism could include multiple people or a single person in a public or private setting. I didn't feel that solitary nude characters would fit in well with the rest of the wiki definition, since nudism is primarily a social activity. Despite this, I left the character count broad for the wiki entry since I wasn't sure how much the character count within a post should factor into whether or not nudist should be a post.

In short, I think solitary characters should be the exception and not the rule when tagging posts with nudist.

Also...

BlueDingo said:
This is what I created the casual_exposure tag for, it's basically the clothed equivalent of casual_nudity since casual nudity is meant to be... well... nude, and they're not exactly nude if they're wearing a t-shirt or something.

I keep forgetting that casual_exposure is a tag... I really need to remember it so that I can add it to posts regularly! ~>_<~

SnowWolf
Contributor
28 days ago
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Rating: Safe
Score: 20
User: SnowWolf
Date: July 28, 2012

Genjar said:
Sounds reasonable. Other uses are already covered by other tags, so limiting it to social situations seems like a good niche for the nudist tag.

Nudity within the privacy of one's own home doesn't feel like nudism to me. As was pointed out, plenty of people sleep in the buff but aren't nudists. So I wouldn't tag those as such, unless it seems like a social thing (whole family doing daily chores nude, etc). Though that does overlap with casual_nudity.

That's actually an interesting point. I, personally, am not a nudist. I'm actually fairly body shy, but when I get up and walk around my house in the morning, getting dressed isn't Step One. More often, I use the bathroom and get breakfast started.. Sometimes I do chores naked so that I can just hop in the shower after rather than risk getting clothes stained. This is true of both my husband and I. We do chores together nude. No big deal. I don't think we'd ever go to a nude beach though. What's my point? I dunno. But I guess that for someone looking up nudist, that would be what they're looking for.

(on a side note, that one picture with the person wearing JUST an apron confuses me. That's kinda fetish-y, like fancy underwear, or whatever... and doens't really feel like nudity, so much as... something else. (I mean, I see naked_apron... just, what I mean it it doesn't usually seem like nudism, or whatever. it's more like.. clothing to be scantily clad in. Where the point is looking pretty, not being free of the social bonds of clothing. There are always exceptions though.

This is not an example, I jsut thought it was really cute: ANIM2017 3_fingers 3_toes animated apron arms_above_head barefoot beige_skin beverage big_head black_eyes blender_(object) blinking blue_skin blush bowl brown_hair can chair chibi clothed clothing collar comic cup cute daww dot_eyes duo fin fish food hair happy head_fin holding_object human inside kitchen looking_at_another loop mammal marine motion_blur naked_apron pillow pouring semi-anthro serving_tray shark shark_puppy shirt short_hair size_difference smoothie standing star straw table tailwag toes vress_(artist) vress_(character) walking white_skin

Rating: Safe
Score: 65
User: silverdragon89
Date: September 19, 2017

Genjar also said:
Yeah, those have gone through multiple revisions and the current system is working okay-ish.

Hahahaha... sometimes, that's all you can ask. :)

Genjar also also said:
Mostly_nude was created to stop users from tagging those as nude (since nude is supposed to be strictly for 'no clothes at all'). There's still occasional mistags, but it's not as bad as it used to be. There's also a related tag group under naked_*, but we've been talking about moving those to '*_only' (naked_hat > hat_only, etc) to make the usage clearer.

I like mostly_nude as a tag honestly. I know that only wearing socks or gloves or whatever is a fetish for some people.

I think hat_only sounds WAY better than naked_hat..

D.D.M. said:
Thank y'all for your input!

Indeed they can be messy, but at least they're no where near as bad as the tasteful_nudity tag was.

You're welcome! The nice thing about cleaning stuff up is that it gets easier each time. :)

D.D.M. said:
Anyways, here's my personal view of these tag's use. These are also the main elements I look for before I decide to add any one of these tags to a post.
...
mostly_nude: A character with some clothing, but still have well over half their body unclothed.

So, where does half_naked come into the picture?

In short, I think solitary characters should be the exception and not the rule when tagging posts with nudist.

I agree entirely. :)

I keep forgetting that casual_exposure is a tag... I really need to remember it so that I can add it to posts regularly! ~>_<~

You should! that's one of the more fun tags of that nature, I think :) Also, thank YOU for looking at such a tricky task!


SnowWolf said:

You're welcome! The nice thing about cleaning stuff up is that it gets easier each time. :)

So, where does half_naked come into the picture?

You should! that's one of the more fun tags of that nature, I think :) Also, thank YOU for looking at such a tricky task!

Most certainly! Though it's sometimes hard to getting started when there's a lot of cleaning to do. -___-

I didn't know half_naked was a tag, but after looking through the wiki and some posts it appears to have some overlap with topless, bottomless, mostly_nude, ineffective_clothing, and casual_exposure. That being said, half_naked does have the potential to be useful and distinct from those prior tags. More or less, it seems like half_naked would apply to characters that are 50% clothed and 50% nude, or if they're reasonably close to that clothed-nude ratio.

It's no problem, I just try to add as many relevant tags I can remember to posts as I see them.

Genjar
Former Staff
27 days ago
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Rating: Safe
Score: 253
User: Genjar
Date: May 29, 2013

SnowWolf said:
So, where does half_naked come into the picture?

Half_dressed was deemed too messy to keep, and was aliased away into clothed.

Half_naked and half_clothed should probably get the same treatment.

SnowWolf
Contributor
27 days ago
black_fur blue_eyes blue_feathers blue_hair equine fan_character feathered_wings feathers female feral flying fur hair hi_res horn mammal multicolored_hair my_little_pony shilokh smile snowdrift snowflake solo star watermark white_feathers winged_unicorn wings

Rating: Safe
Score: 20
User: SnowWolf
Date: July 28, 2012

D.D.M. said:
Most certainly! Though it's sometimes hard to getting started when there's a lot of cleaning to do. -___-

I can totally get that TT_TT But it's people like you who make the site a better place XD

D.D.M. said:
I didn't know half_naked was a tag, but after looking through the wiki and some posts it appears to have some overlap with topless, bottomless, mostly_nude, ineffective_clothing, and casual_exposure. That being said, half_naked does have the potential to be useful and distinct from those prior tags. More or less, it seems like half_naked would apply to characters that are 50% clothed and 50% nude, or if they're reasonably close to that clothed-nude ratio.

Genjar said:
Half_dressed was deemed too messy to keep, and was aliased away into clothed.

Half_naked and half_clothed should probably get the same treatment.

I dunno. I mean, obviously we don't need half-dressed, half-naked AND half-clothed.. but I think a 'half' tag would be useful--for example, the pictures with just shirts and no pants...

... Oh wait, we have topless and bottomless. .... unless those imply half-naked or whatever, that does make half-whatever pretty useless.

Genjar
Former Staff
27 days ago
2011 annoyed antennae arthropod biped black_markings blue_eyes clear_membrane clothed clothing crossed_arms cute duo feral front_view green_body human insect insect_wings lifting lol_comments male mammal markings moth nisimawari pellucid_hawk_moth portrait quadruped shirt shorts simple_background solo_focus spread_wings standing three-quarter_portrait three-quarter_view traditional_media_(artwork) watercolor_(artwork) white_background wings

Rating: Safe
Score: 253
User: Genjar
Date: May 29, 2013

SnowWolf said:
... Oh wait, we have topless and bottomless. .... unless those imply half-naked or whatever, that does make half-whatever pretty useless.

Yeah, besides the mess, that was one of the main arguments against half-dressed.

Topless and bottomless already exist and have their uses, but implicating both to a single tag was too arbitrary. Nobody could think of a good use for a tag that's basically "either topless of bottomless, doesn't matter which", and if anyone actually wants to search for that they can use ~topless ~bottomless.


I read only the OP before typing this. Then I read most of the thread. My positions are unchanged. I will just add now that the litmus test for determining what is nudism should be asking "would a fully modest person wear clothes in this situation?"
_____

I'd alias nudist to casual_nudity or, if that's no good, to nude. casual_nudity is required for nudism. Otherwise, it's just nude connoting some degree of lewdness.

1. Nudist Characters Doing Nothing

casual_nudity

2. Nudist Characters in Sexual Situations

exposed...? I don't see how most of the posts tagged with this match the wiki. That's doomed to happen regardless of any cleanup. Bad tag name that's prone to misuse.

"But what should be done when a nudist character is engaged in lewd behavior?"

I would argue it quickly becomes very hard to distinguish between innocent nudism and intentional lewdness when a nude character starts doing things a lewd character would do. casual_nudity sets the bar for expectations, and if you're not reasonably confident a character is behaving innocently, then you don't tag them with casual_nudity or nudist because their motives are in doubt. casual_nudity should remain "pure", even pure from doubt.

You do your best to tag the depicted behaviors and positions. Ideally, someone could look at a tag list but not the art itself and infer that something lewd is occurring. That requires one to maintain a broad awareness of tags.

3. Characters with Some Clothing

I see casual_exposure is a tag.

topless, bottomless, partially_clothed, mostly_nude, skimpy, and others should cover it. nude is supposed to mean "entirely without clothes", although "wearing minor accessories" should still fit in with most people's definition of "nude".

4. Suggestive Situations, Poses and/or Angles

Angles are irrelevant beyond the *_view tags. You tag the poses for what they are, if the tags exist (e.g., raised_leg), and tag the intent behind those poses if you know the correct tags (e.g., casual_* vs suggestive et al.). Most situations don't have specific tags, or they are very niche and hard to suss out from poor organization and documentation.

See #2.

5. Mixed Sexual/Non-Sexual Situations

public_nudity, exhibitionism, voyeur, public, being_watched

Try to tag the dynamics individually, so if Group/Person A doesn't care about the sexual activity of Group/Person B but Group/Person C does, then you tag all perspectives present.

You could even tag casual_nudity for uninvolved and uninterested nude characters in the same scene. That will probably confuse people checking the tag list, but it's not wrong.

6. Solo Characters

See #1.

If it's solo + nude + an empty background (most of simple_background), then it can't be casual_nudity or nudism because there is no world. Nudism doesn't exist in a vacuum, without clothes. The post must at least substantiate the barest hint of a world outside the art for anyone to assert ideas like modesty and nudism.

I very likely won't be able to monitor this thread for responses. I am working on other projects for E621, so at least I have an excuse now.

Genjar
Former Staff
27 days ago
2011 annoyed antennae arthropod biped black_markings blue_eyes clear_membrane clothed clothing crossed_arms cute duo feral front_view green_body human insect insect_wings lifting lol_comments male mammal markings moth nisimawari pellucid_hawk_moth portrait quadruped shirt shorts simple_background solo_focus spread_wings standing three-quarter_portrait three-quarter_view traditional_media_(artwork) watercolor_(artwork) white_background wings

Rating: Safe
Score: 253
User: Genjar
Date: May 29, 2013

abadbird said:
exposed...? I don't see how most of the posts tagged with this match the wiki. That's doomed to happen regardless of any cleanup. Bad tag name that's prone to misuse.

Agreed. I made some edits to it in the past as a band-aid, but it's still a mishmash. Would be better off if disambiguated and sorted into more descriptive tags (such as accidental_exposure, assisted_exposure, casual_exposure, etc).

If it's solo + nude + an empty background (most of simple_background), then it can't be casual_nudity or nudism because there is no world. Nudism doesn't exist in a vacuum, without clothes. The post must at least substantiate the barest hint of a world outside the art for anyone to assert ideas like modesty and nudism.

I concur. If all that's been drawn is a nude character with no background or other context, we shouldn't assume that it's nudism or casual nudity. Doing so would be against twys.

Nude character with no context is just nude.

BlueDingo
Privileged
27 days ago
2013 5_fingers abs anthro athletic canine claws collarbone cute dingo front_view fur gloves_(marking) half-length_portrait holding_arm imiak inner_ear_fluff looking_at_viewer male mammal markings navel nipples nude peachez pecs pink_eyes pink_fur pink_nose portrait pose shy solo tan_fur v-cut

Rating: Safe
Score: 28
User: flux_capacitor
Date: March 02, 2013

abadbird said:
I'd alias nudist to casual_nudity or, if that's no good, to nude.

I'd take the former over the latter because the nudist could be wearing gloves or something, making them mostly_nude.


After seeing a lot of the responses, it seems unanimous that sex > canon nudism. Additionally, it looks like solo characters should be removed as well. I'll go through the nudist tag and make edits over the next few days. Though I'm still unsure about the consensus on whether nudist should apply to characters with some clothing or not.

abadbird said:
I'd alias nudist to casual_nudity or, if that's no good, to nude. casual_nudity is required for nudism. Otherwise, it's just nude connoting some degree of lewdness.

BlueDingo said:
I'd take the former over the latter because the nudist could be wearing gloves or something, making them mostly_nude.

I think nudist is distinct from casual_nudity in that it is a predominately social activity. So even though casual_nudity is more-or-less required for any nudist post, nudist focuses on group nudity while casual_nudity could be alone or in a group. Perhaps changing the nudist tag into something else like social_nudity would be better, for multiple characters engaged in casual_nudity. To me, social_nudity seems less ambiguous than nudist.

abadbird said:

▼ Click to collapse
2. Nudist Characters in Sexual Situations

exposed...? I don't see how most of the posts tagged with this match the wiki. That's doomed to happen regardless of any cleanup. Bad tag name that's prone to misuse.

4. Suggestive Situations, Poses and/or Angles

See #2.

Most certainly! I wanted to remove the tag from a lot of these posts, but I wasn't sure since they're supposed to be nudist characters within their respective canons.

SnowWolf said:
I can totally get that TT_TT But it's people like you who make the site a better place XD

Aww, thanks SnowWolf! And thanks to everyone out there who tags posts on here!


D.D.M. said:
Perhaps changing the nudist tag into something else like social_nudity would be better, for multiple characters engaged in casual_nudity. To me, social_nudity seems less ambiguous than nudist.

+1. I like this idea.

"Nudist", ultimately, is a personal identity kind of thing, which is always going to be hard to tag appropriately because it's not always a "what you can see" kind of thing. social_nudity, on the other hand, is either in the image or it isn't.


I have another question on whether or not nudist should stay on these kinds of posts. I'm conflicted about solo naked characters in public or in nature. On one hand, there's only one character in these posts, but on the other hand they're casually nude solo characters in typically non-nude settings where encountering other characters is possible. Additionally, I think the likelihood of encountering other characters in such situations would be far greater for public posts than for nature posts; hence I feel a bit less confident in keeping nudist on several of the nature posts.

▼ Click to collapse

absurd_res anthro barefoot beach black_nose breasts canine casual_nudity chest_tuft clothing davidsone dog featureless_breasts featureless_crotch female floppy_ears fluffy fluffy_tail footwear fur grey_eyes hair haley_(davidsone) hi_res looking_at_viewer mammal navel nude nudist outside paws sand sandals seaside shoes sitting sky smile solo tuft water white_fur white_hair

Rating: Safe
Score: 1
User: Davidsone
Date: July 16, 2017

ikdind said:

▼ Click to collapse

+1. I like this idea.

"Nudist", ultimately, is a personal identity kind of thing, which is always going to be hard to tag appropriately because it's not always a "what you can see" kind of thing. social_nudity, on the other hand, is either in the image or it isn't.

For a while I supported the nudist tag and still feel it has utility, but I now feel there's other tags that could be more helpful by being less subjective and ambiguous i.e. social_nudity. I may start tagging stuff with social_nudity as I clean up the nudist tag, though I'm uncertain where this will leave the nudist tag in terms of it's use.


D.D.M. said:

▼ Click to collapse

absurd_res anthro barefoot beach black_nose breasts canine casual_nudity chest_tuft clothing davidsone dog featureless_breasts featureless_crotch female floppy_ears fluffy fluffy_tail footwear fur grey_eyes hair haley_(davidsone) hi_res looking_at_viewer mammal navel nude nudist outside paws sand sandals seaside shoes sitting sky smile solo tuft water white_fur white_hair

Rating: Safe
Score: 1
User: Davidsone
Date: July 16, 2017

▼ Opinions!

Least nudist:

Personally, I feel like 870035 and 290745 wouldn't deserve the nudist tag, since one is just skinny dipping (unless we decide we should implicate skinny_dippingnudist) and the other is a posed pin-up kind of piece.

Probably not nudist?
absurd_res anthro barefoot beach black_nose breasts canine casual_nudity chest_tuft clothing davidsone dog featureless_breasts featureless_crotch female floppy_ears fluffy fluffy_tail footwear fur grey_eyes hair haley_(davidsone) hi_res looking_at_viewer mammal navel nude nudist outside paws sand sandals seaside shoes sitting sky smile solo tuft water white_fur white_hair

Rating: Safe
Score: 1
User: Davidsone
Date: July 16, 2017
I still feel that being naked on a nude beach is not nudist, so I'd vote to remove nudist from 1371584 as well. 1277969 feels ambiguous to me - it could be a nude beach, but could be casually nude in public, and I think it's another good example that nudist is too subjective.

Ambiguously nudist

I find 1104885 ambiguous, because nothing conveys to me whether he lives in world without clothes (and I'm not sure if I'd call characters "nudist" if clothes are just not a thing in their world).

Probably nudist

Compare with 390202, where there is so much attention to detail and realism in the car interior that I can't help implying that they exist in a realistic society, making them casually_nude and probably nudist.

1344172 feels the most appropriate to tag nudist from that lot, at least for me. The cloth headband and tail cuff suggest that the world uses clothing, but the character prefers to do without asides from a handful of accessories and tools. And the backpack suggests a realistic modern society.

Just to muddy the waters further, some food for thought:

Would flora_(twokinds) frequently be tagged nudist? In images, she is frequently nude while in the context of a clothed society, where even other keidran (even of her own kind) are usually depicted wearing some form of clothing.

I suppose that does make her a nudist, but it feels weird to start tagging her as such because nudism is pretty much a non-issue for that entire webcomic.

2011 3_toes anthro beach beach_umbrella bottomless bugs_bunny carrot clothed clothing day detailed_background duo female food footprints glass hat hindpaw jungle lola_bunny looney_tunes lying male mostly_nude outside paws radio rock sea seaside sitting sky spiritto sunlight swimsuit table teeth toes vegetable warner_brothers water

Rating: Safe
Score: 20
User: papercat
Date: March 08, 2011
bugs_bunny seems like an especially awkward example of casual nudity but not nudist, since lola_bunny has always canonically worn clothes - so the nudist definition doesn't even cut equally. But granted, I couldn't find any "real" examples to advance the point here. Though I did get a giggle from post #1299203, which specifically prods at the uneven clothing standard applied to the two characters:
anthro blonde_hair blood blue_eyes blush breasts brown_fur buckteeth bugs_bunny clothing featureless_breasts featureless_crotch female fur gloves grey_fur hair humor lagomorph lola_bunny looney_tunes male mammal nosebleed nude open_mouth rabbit shaking silent-sid_1992 standing tan_fur teeth warner_brothers white_fur

Rating: Safe
Score: 32
User: SilentSid1992
Date: August 10, 2017

I has me wondering what other Saturday morning or after-school cartoon material had inconsistent clothing standards for characters, that might lead any TWYS definition of nudist to apply in awkward situations. (Sonic the Hedgehog? Animaniacs? Disney? Even setting aside obvious exclusions like Lion King, which is obviously not nudist, I suspect there's fodder for debate here because of inconsistent clothing standards.)

Or there's that whole Zootopia comic Adam Wan has been working on where many of the characters are canonically nudist, and the comic is set in a nudist spa which suggests that the cameos are nudist in the fiction of the comic, but we'd probably largely disqualify the tag because the overt sexual content in the comic's pages results in the images not really conveying nudism over a simple orgy.

The more I think about this, the more I feel nudist doesn't have a solid foundation for being a real tag, as opposed to an alias for casual_nudity.

SnowWolf
Contributor
25 days ago
black_fur blue_eyes blue_feathers blue_hair equine fan_character feathered_wings feathers female feral flying fur hair hi_res horn mammal multicolored_hair my_little_pony shilokh smile snowdrift snowflake solo star watermark white_feathers winged_unicorn wings

Rating: Safe
Score: 20
User: SnowWolf
Date: July 28, 2012

ikdind said:
The more I think about this, the more I feel nudist doesn't have a solid foundation for being a real tag, as opposed to an alias for casual_nudity.

I've actually been edging that way too. There are a lot of other tags that can be used to better describe things, while better adhering to tagging what one sees.

On a side note, on the saturday morning cartoon side of things.. I feel like it's not really nudist if there's not really any genitals?

I mean.. 2017 <3 anthro avian bird buckteeth bugs_bunny daffy_duck duck duo eyes_closed feathers fur green_eyes half-closed_eyes hands_behind_back lagomorph looney_tunes male male/male mammal nuzzling rabbit simple_background standing sweat teeth warner_brothers whiskers zehn

Rating: Safe
Score: 7
User: Dagoth_Ur
Date: May 28, 2017 isn't really... nude. and 2017 >:d anthro avian bird cane clothed clothing disney donald_duck duck ducktales ducktales_(2017) duo eyewear feathers glasses gradient_background hat hexfloog hi_res holding_object looking_at_viewer male open_mouth open_smile rope scared scrooge_mcduck simple_background smile top_hat white_feathers

Rating: Safe
Score: 5
User: ConsciousDonkey
Date: August 14, 2017 isn't really giving us an eye full of duck crotch. They're jsut kinda... not. As opposed to where they are TOTALLY bottomless and nude (or mostly nude, whatever)

I mean.. cartoon_nudity maybe?


SnowWolf said:
on the saturday morning cartoon side of things.. I feel like it's not really nudist if there's not really any genitals?

Yeah, it seems like a weird corner-case to me, where nudity and nudism don't feel appropriate to tag in many circumstances. Anatomically, Flora from TwoKinds works on the same logic, but post #1359613 is still considered "nude", and it feels somewhat appropriate, I suppose because her breasts are more pronounced than on, say, canonical representations of sally_acorn (the fandom is pretty consistent about her blue vest when she's intended to be "clothed", but the original cartoon was not).

SnowWolf
Contributor
25 days ago
black_fur blue_eyes blue_feathers blue_hair equine fan_character feathered_wings feathers female feral flying fur hair hi_res horn mammal multicolored_hair my_little_pony shilokh smile snowdrift snowflake solo star watermark white_feathers winged_unicorn wings

Rating: Safe
Score: 20
User: SnowWolf
Date: July 28, 2012

ikdind said:
Yeah, it seems like a weird corner-case to me, where nudity and nudism don't feel appropriate to tag in many circumstances. Anatomically, Flora from TwoKinds works on the same logic, but post #1359613 is still considered "nude", and it feels somewhat appropriate, I suppose because her breasts are more pronounced than on, say, canonical representations of sally_acorn (the fandom is pretty consistent about her blue vest when she's intended to be "clothed", but the original cartoon was not).

Agreed. Hmmm..

3_toes 5_fingers absurd_res anthro arm_markings aura_(moomanibe) big_tail black_nose blue_eyes breasts brown_fur brown_hair brown_tail brush brushing_hair cat claws clothed clothing countershade_face countershade_tail countershade_torso countershading digital_media_(artwork) duo ear_markings ears_back eyebrows eyelashes facial_markings fangs featureless_breasts feline female fur hair hi_res holding_leg inner_ear_fluff inside isometric kae_esrial kneeling leg_markings long_hair mammal markings multicolored_fur multicolored_hair nude on_ground open_mouth open_smile panties pillow pink_tongue qualzar red_hair red_markings short_hair sitting small_breasts smile spots spotted_fur spotted_tail tarunah toe_claws toes tongue topless towel two_tone_fur two_tone_hair two_tone_tail underwear white_fur white_hair white_spots white_tail window yellow_eyes

Rating: Safe
Score: 11
User: Strongbird
Date: November 18, 2017 ← cartoon nudity?
axel big_ears blue_fur breasts canine clothed clothing featureless_breasts female fennec fox fur hair leggings legwear long_socks mammal mostly_nude no_underwear red_eyes short_hair socks solo spots stockings striped_legwear striped_socks stripes theredghost topless white_fur

Rating: Safe
Score: 15
User: TheRedGhost
Date: November 15, 2017 ← nude?
anthro bone breasts canine clothed clothing dagger feathers featureless_breasts female fog grass hair inner_ear_fluff loincloth mammal melee_weapon outside polearm raventenebris side_view solo spear standing topless tree tribal_clothing weapon

Rating: Safe
Score: 56
User: spankweasel
Date: November 05, 2017 ← ??

Oooh, we have featureless_breasts and featureless_crotch --both with around 6500 posts.

well, that's good to know, but I feel like it kinda... complicates the nudity thing a bit more. I mean, great tags to have. But... doesn't really cover the concept of cartoon nudity. which is... a lack of clothing without sexual bits. I think.

Hm.


On cartoon nudity,

SnowWolf said:

▼ Click to collapse

Oooh, we have featureless_breasts and featureless_crotch --both with around 6500 posts.

well, that's good to know, but I feel like it kinda... complicates the nudity thing a bit more. I mean, great tags to have. But... doesn't really cover the concept of cartoon nudity. which is... a lack of clothing without sexual bits. I think.

Hm.

ikdind said:

▼ Click to collapse

Yeah, it seems like a weird corner-case to me, where nudity and nudism don't feel appropriate to tag in many circumstances. Anatomically, Flora from TwoKinds works on the same logic, but post #1359613 is still considered "nude", and it feels somewhat appropriate, I suppose because her breasts are more pronounced than on, say, canonical representations of sally_acorn (the fandom is pretty consistent about her blue vest when she's intended to be "clothed", but the original cartoon was not).

I think it's redundant to have a cartoon_nudity tag since the same thing is fairly well covered by the tags featureless_breasts and featureless_crotch, plus they're more precise by indicating what part of a character's body is featureless. Additionally, nude should still be applied to cartoon nudity, as indicated by the wiki page for nude:

▼ Click to collapse

Images or animations depicting at least one character who isn't wearing any clothing.

Nudity does not necessarily have to be erotic in nature. The nude tag still applies if a character's genitals and/or nipples are not visible, and even if the character is drawn in a cartoonish manner and do not appear to have genitalia.

BlueDingo
Privileged
24 days ago
2013 5_fingers abs anthro athletic canine claws collarbone cute dingo front_view fur gloves_(marking) half-length_portrait holding_arm imiak inner_ear_fluff looking_at_viewer male mammal markings navel nipples nude peachez pecs pink_eyes pink_fur pink_nose portrait pose shy solo tan_fur v-cut

Rating: Safe
Score: 28
User: flux_capacitor
Date: March 02, 2013

SnowWolf said:
I mean.. 2017 <3 anthro avian bird buckteeth bugs_bunny daffy_duck duck duo eyes_closed feathers fur green_eyes half-closed_eyes hands_behind_back lagomorph looney_tunes male male/male mammal nuzzling rabbit simple_background standing sweat teeth warner_brothers whiskers zehn

Rating: Safe
Score: 7
User: Dagoth_Ur
Date: May 28, 2017 isn't really... nude.

How isn't it? Last time I checked, being completely unclothed (ie. nude) applied to cartoon characters as well.

SnowWolf said:
and 2017 >:d anthro avian bird cane clothed clothing disney donald_duck duck ducktales ducktales_(2017) duo eyewear feathers glasses gradient_background hat hexfloog hi_res holding_object looking_at_viewer male open_mouth open_smile rope scared scrooge_mcduck simple_background smile top_hat white_feathers

Rating: Safe
Score: 5
User: ConsciousDonkey
Date: August 14, 2017 isn't really giving us an eye full of duck crotch.

A crotch with no genitals on it is still a crotch.

SnowWolf said:
3_toes 5_fingers absurd_res anthro arm_markings aura_(moomanibe) big_tail black_nose blue_eyes breasts brown_fur brown_hair brown_tail brush brushing_hair cat claws clothed clothing countershade_face countershade_tail countershade_torso countershading digital_media_(artwork) duo ear_markings ears_back eyebrows eyelashes facial_markings fangs featureless_breasts feline female fur hair hi_res holding_leg inner_ear_fluff inside isometric kae_esrial kneeling leg_markings long_hair mammal markings multicolored_fur multicolored_hair nude on_ground open_mouth open_smile panties pillow pink_tongue qualzar red_hair red_markings short_hair sitting small_breasts smile spots spotted_fur spotted_tail tarunah toe_claws toes tongue topless towel two_tone_fur two_tone_hair two_tone_tail underwear white_fur white_hair white_spots white_tail window yellow_eyes

Rating: Safe
Score: 11
User: Strongbird
Date: November 18, 2017 ← cartoon nudity?
axel big_ears blue_fur breasts canine clothed clothing featureless_breasts female fennec fox fur hair leggings legwear long_socks mammal mostly_nude no_underwear red_eyes short_hair socks solo spots stockings striped_legwear striped_socks stripes theredghost topless white_fur

Rating: Safe
Score: 15
User: TheRedGhost
Date: November 15, 2017 ← nude?
anthro bone breasts canine clothed clothing dagger feathers featureless_breasts female fog grass hair inner_ear_fluff loincloth mammal melee_weapon outside polearm raventenebris side_view solo spear standing topless tree tribal_clothing weapon

Rating: Safe
Score: 56
User: spankweasel
Date: November 05, 2017 ← ??

1. nude (left), topless skimpy (right)
2. mostly_nude
3. topless skimpy

You're trying to complicate the meaning of nudity by adding a genital requirement to it when all it means is "without clothing or coverings".


D.D.M. said:
On cartoon nudity,

I think it's redundant to have a cartoon_nudity tag since the same thing is fairly well covered by the tags featureless_breasts and featureless_crotch, plus they're more precise by indicating what part of a character's body is featureless. Additionally, nude should still be applied to cartoon nudity, as indicated by the wiki page for nude:

▼ Click to collapse

Images or animations depicting at least one character who isn't wearing any clothing.

Nudity does not necessarily have to be erotic in nature. The nude tag still applies if a character's genitals and/or nipples are not visible, and even if the character is drawn in a cartoonish manner and do not appear to have genitalia.

BlueDingo said:
How isn't it? Last time I checked, being completely unclothed (ie. nude) applied to cartoon characters as well.

A crotch with no genitals on it is still a crotch.

1. nude (left), topless skimpy (right)
2. mostly_nude
3. topless skimpy

You're trying to complicate the meaning of nudity by adding a genital requirement to it when all it means is "without clothing or coverings".

I suppose the counter argument, though, is that tags should should also generally align with what a person is looking for. Maybe bugs_bunny nude should be a redundant pair of search terms, but it potentially pollutes the search results for, say, lola_bunny nude with any picture containing bugs_bunny.

But hey, I'm good at over-analyzing and over-complicating things, and totally willing to acknowledge that a simpler rule may be better overall. And it was really meant more as a tangent to further contextualize my thoughts about nudist than a serious suggestion to potentially redefine nude.

Although, if we do feel that bugs_bunny is usually nude, there's a good page's worth of images that need to be updated under bugs_bunny -nude. Actually, looking through that, I'd say there's a good number of images that need the nude tag anyways.