BlueDingo
Privileged
1 month ago
2016 5_fingers anthro black_fur black_hair black_nose black_topwear bust_portrait clothed clothing cute detailed digital_media_(artwork) dress_shirt elegant fangs flower front_view fur grey_eyes grey_topwear hair holding_flower holding_object inner_ear_fluff jacket jamesfoxbr male mammal necktie pattern_clothing plant portrait rose shirt short_hair simple_background smile solo star_eyes striped_clothing striped_shirt suit waistcoat white_fur

Rating: Safe
Score: 2
User: jamesfoxbr
Date: October 29, 2016

fewrahuxo said:
also, fuck poor people, am i right?

Being one of those poor people myself, yes.


TheTundraTerror said:
"Wait, what do you mean pirates don't just pay for things they can't pirate?!"

If they REALLY need it and all avenues of piracy have been probed, yes.
Why do you think pirates went after treasure? Can't steal everything.

treos
Blocked
1 month ago
2016 animated_skeleton bandanna bone cel_shading dry_bones glowing glowing_eyes gradient_background hi_res itoruna mario_bros nintendo scalie simple_background skeleton solo toony undead video_games

Rating: Safe
Score: 28
User: Itoruna
Date: August 16, 2016

fewrahuxo said:
i think you need to look up the differences between theft and copying, because i don't think hosting content on a website is simultaneously depriving the artist of their ability to use that very same content.

hadn't thought of that. how can digital piracy be considered theft when you're not actually stealing anything, you're simply copying it. by that logic, cloning could also be considered a form of theft in some way.

also, fuck poor people, am i right? they shouldn't have a right to enjoy the same things rich people can at no cost to them.

yep, that's how most anti-piracy people tend to feel from what i've seen over the years.

if you can't pay for it with money then you don't deserve to interact with it in any way.

money first, above absolutely ALL else, even happiness and entertainment. they'd rather you suffer and be bored for your entire life if you can't pay for it.


Acolyte said:
If they REALLY need it and all avenues of piracy have been probed, yes.

People who pirate usually (not always, but usually) had no intention or ability (not everyone wants a credit card) to pay for it in the first place. So, what exactly did you gain?


TheTundraTerror said:
Yeah, because digital quality is eternal, eh?

I can't speak on the rule because it was put in place sometime before I joined. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Huh, only 2500. Far less then I thought there would be.


Ratte said:
I can't speak on the rule because it was put in place sometime before I joined. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not the point, been when has that been the case?


treos said:
hadn't thought of that. how can digital piracy be considered theft when you're not actually stealing anything, you're simply copying it. by that logic, cloning could also be considered a form of theft in some way.

We're not the end consumer. If we host something we distribute it to others for consumption. That is the main issue. We help propagate a problem, and we simply don't want to do that anymore.
Also, printing more money devalues it, this ties into the same issue.


TheTundraTerror said:
People who pirate usually (not always, but usually) had no intention or ability (not everyone wants a credit card) to pay for it in the first place. So, what exactly did you gain?

Yes, this is true. I've pirated crap I've never used.
But for something I really needed, I've paid for. Even with cash.
I know a few other "pirates" who have done the same.


NotMeNotYou said:
We're not the end consumer. If we host something we distribute it to others for consumption. That is the main issue. We help propagate a problem, and we simply don't want to do that anymore.

You know that people use this site to find artists to commission (aka give them money) and that Patreon (that topic you keep seeming to avoid) exists to support artists? I mean, a lot of artists get paid via Patreon and they seem to be doing pretty well despite offering the art people "pay" for for (fuck you, English) free. I mean, Kabier was doing pretty well on Patreon despite releasing her comics for free.


treos said:
hadn't thought of that. how can digital piracy be considered theft when you're not actually stealing anything, you're simply copying it. by that logic, cloning could also be considered a form of theft in some way.

yep, that's how most anti-piracy people tend to feel from what i've seen over the years.

if you can't pay for it with money then you don't deserve to interact with it in any way.

money first, above absolutely ALL else, even happiness and entertainment. they'd rather you suffer and be bored for your entire life if you can't pay for it.

Try to share some ubisoft game online for free for others with your address attached to it and see what happens. I'm almost certain that company nor law see this in any other way than illegal copying of intellectual property and make you pay up so much that being poor doesn't describe it.

Thing is, I used to pirate games when I had small income. Personally I see this on acceptable level still, but nowdays I do have steady income so I will buy every single game I want to consume.

HOWEVER!
That does not make the action itself any less illegal and that does not mean that I have to share those games myself on my website to those who are poor.

There's so much lack of distiction of so many things in this thread it's insane.


treos said:
hadn't thought of that. how can digital piracy be considered theft when you're not actually stealing anything, you're simply copying it. by that logic, cloning could also be considered a form of theft in some way.

yep, that's how most anti-piracy people tend to feel from what i've seen over the years.

if you can't pay for it with money then you don't deserve to interact with it in any way.

money first, above absolutely ALL else, even happiness and entertainment. they'd rather you suffer and be bored for your entire life if you can't pay for it.

You don't "Deserve" entertainment or art. These are not peasants stealing bread after a week of having no food. Artists deserve money more than you or I deserve the fruits of their labor.


NotMeNotYou said:
We're not the end consumer. If we host something we distribute it to others for consumption. That is the main issue. We help propagate a problem, and we simply don't want to do that anymore.

speaking as the end consumer, i find it doubtful you simply decided to reverse a longstanding policy out of the blue with no outside factors as play. and also as the end consumer, there was a great deal of pay content - or otherwise conditional dnp i very much enjoy and have found many good artists as a result of that content, even having the dnp policy affect some of the work i have personally uploaded.

Also, printing more money devalues it, this ties into the same issue.

you're absolutely right. we need to restrict e621 to only have ten users online at the same time, because having more users devalues e621's membership.

Fenrick said:
You don't "Deserve" entertainment or art. These are not peasants stealing bread after a week of having no food.

spend a weekend in jail and see if you still think you don't "deserve" entertainment.


TheTundraTerror said:
You know that people use this site to find artists to commission (aka give them money) and that Patreon (that topic you keep seeming to avoid) exists to support artists? I mean, a lot of artists get paid via Patreon and they seem to be doing pretty well despite offering the art people "pay" for for (fuck you, English) free.

If you want to still show off artists, ask them if they're willing to make exceptions--For example, a Conditional DNP for "Two years after publishing." If an artist is okay with it, they'll let the site staff know.

BlueDingo
Privileged
1 month ago
2016 5_fingers anthro black_fur black_hair black_nose black_topwear bust_portrait clothed clothing cute detailed digital_media_(artwork) dress_shirt elegant fangs flower front_view fur grey_eyes grey_topwear hair holding_flower holding_object inner_ear_fluff jacket jamesfoxbr male mammal necktie pattern_clothing plant portrait rose shirt short_hair simple_background smile solo star_eyes striped_clothing striped_shirt suit waistcoat white_fur

Rating: Safe
Score: 2
User: jamesfoxbr
Date: October 29, 2016

treos said:
money first, above absolutely ALL else, even happiness and entertainment. they'd rather you suffer and be bored for your entire life if you can't pay for it.

Are you suggesting that there is no free entertainment? Or that everything that can make you happy costs money? Or that not having paid things causes suffering?

So what if we can't freely view art that was never intended to be viewed freely? If the artist wants to restrict their art to paying customers only, that's their choice. If they lose followers because of that, that's their problem. There's so much freely available art here that losing the paid stuff makes little difference to us. You're still gonna be able to find things you want to see.

Pendraggon
Privileged
1 month ago

treos said:
yep, that's how most anti-piracy people tend to feel from what i've seen over the years.

if you can't pay for it with money then you don't deserve to interact with it in any way.

money first, above absolutely ALL else, even happiness and entertainment. they'd rather you suffer and be bored for your entire life if you can't pay for it.

But you have to remember that this is literally some artists livelihood. You can maybe justify (though i'm not saying to do it) pirating something like video games from super big companies that do not really need your money at all, compared to a small artist who is probably trying to turn their hobby into a job. And if it's on something like Patreon, and it never gets posted, then there is profit to be made by someone who pays to see it.

It's up to the artist to decide if they want their works to be interacted with, without paying money. Look at blitzdrachin, you can get his works early by paying, or for free by waiting. Your argument "they'd rather you suffer and be bored for your entire life if you can't pay for it." directly applied to ARTISTS in this case.

Look, I don't want to say this, but acting like you deserve to see paid artwork because "you suffer and be bored for your entire life if you can't pay for it." is very entitled. It's not YOUR RIGHT to see paid works for free. However, it's the artists right to post it and control how it affects their income. This isn't a robin hood situation you guys are making it out to be, where you make it available to the poor masses to consume, you're stealing from poor people for your own selfish gains when it comes to this :P.


AnotherDay said:

I don't know about that. I've personally discovered through this site alone artists that I've commissioned as well as artists I know for a fact my friends have commissioned exclusively due to the paid content that was here because it was easy to find and access so we didn't have to go digging to see their best stuff.

For this reason, artists release free content along with their paid stuff. Their free work is a "loss leader" to drive clients into their shop, where they can hawk their paid work and get commissions.
If you just discovered the artist, what would you have dug for, anyway?


Mario69 said:
Try to share some ubisoft game online for free for others with your address attached to it and see what happens. I'm almost certain that company nor law see this in any other way than illegal copying of intellectual property and make you pay up so much that being poor doesn't describe it.

Thing is, I used to pirate games when I had small income. Personally I see this on acceptable level still, but nowdays I do have steady income so I will buy every single game I want to consume.

HOWEVER!
That does not make the action itself any less illegal and that does not mean that I have to share those games myself on my website to those who are poor.

There's so much lack of distiction of so many things in this thread it's insane.

Piracy is an issue of accessibility. Once Spotify got it's ass to Canada, never pirated an album. Once I got converted to the cult of Steam, I never pirated a game... except one. SWAT 4. Which I bought on GOG when it was finally released digitally.


Acolyte said:
For this reason, artists release free content along with their paid stuff. Their free work is a "loss leader" to drive clients into their shop, where they can hawk their paid work and get commissions.
If you just discovered the artist, what would you have dug for, anyway?

Or, you know, they just use Patreon because that's a thing.


fewrahuxo said:
speaking as the end consumer, i find it doubtful you simply decided to reverse a longstanding policy out of the blue with no outside factors as play. and also as the end consumer, there was a great deal of pay content - or otherwise conditional dnp i very much enjoy and have found many good artists as a result of that content, even having the dnp policy affect some of the work i have personally uploaded.

you're absolutely right. we need to restrict e621 to only have ten users online at the same time, because having more users devalues e621's membership.

spend a weekend in jail and see if you still think you don't "deserve" entertainment.

Losing some pics on e621 is exactly the same as solitary confinement! You have internet. You are not deprived.

Pendraggon
Privileged
1 month ago

TheTundraTerror said:
Or, you know, they just use Patreon because that's a thing.

They can use patreon while also releasing free content, and releasing their paid content after a time period to supplement it. Look at blitzdrachin for a good example of this.


Fenrick said:
Being deprived of some pics on e621 is exactly the same as solitary confinement! You have internet. You are not deprived.

i'm sorry, i thought you were stating that we should simply abolish all forms of entertainment because none of us deserve it. that does seem to be the tone of your original post.


Pendraggon said:
They can use patreon while also releasing free content, and releasing their paid content after a time period to supplement it. Look at blitzdrachin for a good example of this.

Most creators who use Patreon tend to release anything to patrons first, then post it publicity like a day or two later.


TheTundraTerror said:
Or, you know, they just use Patreon because that's a thing.

I can also use ebay to sell my stuff, but hell, why not put up my own ecommerce site?
Not everyone wants to pay a middleman.


You need to update https://e926.net/wiki/show/e621:rules .

Please note that paid content over 2 years old is acceptable to post if it doesn't break any other rules.


Acolyte said:
I can also use ebay to sell my stuff, but hell, why not put up my own ecommerce site?
Not everyone wants to pay a middleman.

ayy look shit

Patreon is no different than signing up to a paysite like Hardblush. Only difference is you can support the artists you like directly.

Seriously, you want artists to be paid but don't want to deal with a middleman? Patreon just streamlines things.


you know, reading a lot of these posts make me realize the fundamental disconnect between e621 administration and the users they claim to support. i would like it very much if this site not go the way of FurAffinity and end up being a situation where admins make decisions arbitrarily and with no user input whatsoever, changing rules on a whim without so much as prelude.

the only way such a situation like this can occur is if e621 has no idea what it's doing and has no plan for the future, just doing things and seeing what happens for no real reason. it would be nice to have a roadmap or a mission statement, or really anything at all so these decisions don't come as a complete surprise to so many people.

Pendraggon
Privileged
1 month ago

TheTundraTerror said:
Most creators who use Patreon tend to release anything to patrons first, then post it publicity like a day or two later.

i think i misunderstood your original post, i think we both agree that this is good :p

Pendraggon
Privileged
1 month ago

fewrahuxo said:
you know, reading a lot of these posts make me realize the fundamental disconnect between e621 administration and the users they claim to support. i would like it very much if this site not go the way of FurAffinity and end up being a situation where admins make decisions arbitrarily and with no user input whatsoever, changing rules on a whim without so much as prelude.

the only way such a situation like this can occur is if e621 has no idea what it's doing and has no plan for the future, just doing things and seeing what happens for no real reason. it would be nice to have a roadmap or a mission statement, or really anything at all so these decisions don't come as a complete surprise to so many people.

I hope you realize this is different, this is more e621 wanting to not be liable for anything illegal that gets posted here. It shouldn't be our decision in the first place because we don't own e621.


Pendraggon said:
I hope you realize this is different, this is more e621 wanting to not be liable for anything illegal that gets posted here. It shouldn't be our decision in the first place because we don't own e621.

i don't understand why you, a user of e621, are arguing for less privileges for the users of e621. what do you have to gain from this line of rhetoric that has you defending a decision that only serves to go against your interests as a user?