SnowWolf
Former Staff
15 days ago
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Rating: Safe
Score: 23
User: SnowWolf
Date: July 28, 2012

JAKXXX3 said:
I believe the manga tag is generally used to indicate when text should be read right to left. I suppose it could be helpful to have a tag specifically about reading direction though.

honestly, 'manga' is an incredibly wibbley sort of idea. what defines a manga? does it have to be japanese in origin? is it a style thing? what about western artists who draw in the manga-style?

better, I think, to have right_to_left/right_to_left_comic tags then something so vague as "manga"

Genjar
Former Staff
15 days ago
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Rating: Safe
Score: 275
User: Genjar
Date: May 29, 2013

SnowWolf said:
honestly, 'manga' is an incredibly wibbley sort of idea.

Yep, that it is.
I'm not sure about the merits of the right_to_left tag, though. Can it really be so hard to figure out which way to read a comic, and if someone's having trouble with that, would they think of checking the tags..

And it seems pretty unlikely that it'd bother someone so much that they'd want to blacklist it. I suppose there's no harm in tagging it, just seems pretty pointless to me.


Genjar said:
I'm not sure about the merits of the right_to_left tag, though. Can it really be so hard to figure out which way to read a comic, and if someone's having trouble with that, would they think of checking the tags..

To be honest, I have had trouble telling what the reading direction is before. It's difficult when there isn't a clear chronological order that is immediately apparent. I think one of them was the Black Jack comic (pool #8940).

SnowWolf
Former Staff
15 days ago
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Rating: Safe
Score: 23
User: SnowWolf
Date: July 28, 2012

Genjar said:
I'm not sure about the merits of the right_to_left tag, though. Can it really be so hard to figure out which way to read a comic, and if someone's having trouble with that, would they think of checking the tags..

And it seems pretty unlikely that it'd bother someone so much that they'd want to blacklist it. I suppose there's no harm in tagging it, just seems pretty pointless to me.

I was actually reading something about panel lay out in american comics versus japanese manga a few months ago.. I cna't find it again off hand, but the jist of it was basically that manga artists established Rules about how to lay out panels so that no one reading will be very confused about what panel to move to next. Japanese comic readers tend to quickly understand this flow-of-panel... but american comic makers tend to have more confusing lay outs because they've never had to adhere to these quiet rules.

Anyway: I've read way more manga than american comics... and honestly, I can find it confusing too. Some people flip comics while translating them, some people write them 'western style' to make them more approachable, some glorious westerners decide to do them 'backwards' to better emulate manga styles.. it can get confusing.

take

in the top half of the page, you have impatient aligator, then a face full of dicks. You also have the girl finishing up on the phone. So: If the alligator saying "Hey, stop it with the phone!" and she finishes up her phone call? or is she chatting on the phone and he interrupts with mouth-dick? The bottom frame comes after the other three, of course, but it doesn't really help-- as it's more of a 'in the middle' frame and could follow either of the above two.

This is complicated when you have anything less than a perfect translation-- the rhythm of Japanese and other Asian languages is quite different than english. so you end up with things like "I've been on a sexual relationship with them" or "my lust is big to a point I can't hold it" ... and it becomes easier to get confused on the flow of panels.

Also..

After a glance through, the manga tag IS a mess.

Manga are comics. If one is a japanese speaker, it has a little more of a loose definition, but in the english speaking world, manga is comics.

Yet, in the first 100 results:

There's no consistency on right_to_left or Left_to_right-ness.. it's just... vaguely tagged.

So...

I support disambuguating manga and using right_to_left_comic and left_to_right_comic


Is there any way to fix painting so it doesn't result in so many mis-tagged images?

SnowWolf
Former Staff
15 days ago
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Rating: Safe
Score: 23
User: SnowWolf
Date: July 28, 2012

Ijerk said:
Is there any way to fix painting so it doesn't result in so many mis-tagged images?

Sure. Someone just has to go through, determine what all the right tags would be, try to figure out a solution to prevent future mistags, then manually go through every image to tag things correctly.

With only 1011 images, it's not so bad.

What do you think should be there, and what is there that shouldn't be there?


SnowWolf said:
What do you think should be there, and what is there that shouldn't be there?

(edit:I'm not sure if any of that was /sarc or not)

It's designed to describe visible artwork *within* the image, but ends up being used to describe the media itself half the time(the incorrect use).

Posts can be cleaned up manually every so often, but I imagine the mess will persist as long as the tag/wording remains the same.

I'm not sure I'd be the best person to suggest alternative tag names, just throwing the issue out there and hoping someone with more experience can lend some advice


Isn't this what the _(artwork) suffix (e.g. colored_pencil_(artwork)) was supposed to fix? I guess it didn't work very well.

SnowWolf
Former Staff
14 days ago
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Rating: Safe
Score: 23
User: SnowWolf
Date: July 28, 2012

Ijerk said:
(edit:I'm not sure if any of that was /sarc or not)

Not sarcastic--just a bit flippant, perhaps. That *is* what needs to happen. Just, it's hard to find someone else willing to take on someone else's project. Most of us start tagging things because *we* want to see change. Someone coming in and saying "Someone else should fix this" doesn't gain much traction, y'know? :)

But the first step is always establishing what needs to be done: a messy tag means SOMETHING, somewhere's unclear or unintuitive. not everything can be intuitive, but we can always try to be better :)

It's designed to describe visible artwork *within* the image, but ends up being used to describe the media itself half the time(the incorrect use).

Posts can be cleaned up manually every so often, but I imagine the mess will persist as long as the tag/wording remains the same.

I'm not sure I'd be the best person to suggest alternative tag names, just throwing the issue out there and hoping someone with more experience can lend some advice

Maxpizzle said:
Isn't this what the _(artwork) suffix (e.g. colored_pencil_(artwork)) was supposed to fix? I guess it didn't work very well.

It's a tricky area, I think. the artwork tags were well intended, but I probably would have disambiguated the original tags as well.. a character should use, in my opinion, colored_pencil_(object) and be drawn with colored_pencil_(medium)

... a painting, in a picture should be a painting_(object), done with paint_(object) (probably), as part of the creating_art activity, but then, maybe painting_(activity) would be more straightforward and could imply creating_art or whatever it is.

but now I"m suggesting overhauls of systems currently in place.. and well established :P

that said, painting is a particularly tricky tag and SHOULD be disambiguated.


SnowWolf said:
Not sarcastic--just a bit flippant, perhaps. That *is* what needs to happen. Just, it's hard to find someone else willing to take on someone else's project. Most of us start tagging things because *we* want to see change. Someone coming in and saying "Someone else should fix this" doesn't gain much traction, y'know? :)

But the first step is always establishing what needs to be done: a messy tag means SOMETHING, somewhere's unclear or unintuitive. not everything can be intuitive, but we can always try to be better :)

I remember cleaning up a page or two of them around when I joined, but had other things to be doing that day and quickly lost motivation.

I know it's going to require more actual discussion, this is one of those tags I guessed had been brought up previously on the forums so I didn't want to start with a big essay.

So-

From what I've noticed is Painting has a high initial failure rate, but as you go back through the pages it gets better, probably due to people fixing the old ones up as they come across them. I'd guess it's over 50% correct at minimum.

So at this point it'd be better to fix the remainder so they can be mass-edit-implied cleanly before disambiguation, no? I'll see if I have time to fix some later.

We probably don't need any additional tags for now (talking about painting_(activity) vs creating_art etc); You could probably combine a search for creating_art with a utensil and get usable results.


SnowWolf said:
It's a tricky area, I think. the artwork tags were well intended, but I probably would have disambiguated the original tags as well.. a character should use, in my opinion, colored_pencil_(object) and be drawn with colored_pencil_(medium)

... a painting, in a picture should be a painting_(object), done with paint_(object) (probably), as part of the creating_art activity, but then, maybe painting_(activity) would be more straightforward and could imply creating_art or whatever it is.

but now I"m suggesting overhauls of systems currently in place.. and well established :P

that said, painting is a particularly tricky tag and SHOULD be disambiguated.

Sounds like a good idea to me. Generally tags with multiple meanings should get disambiguated and specified.


Is there a tag for 'penis-clitoris'?

SnowWolf
Former Staff
13 days ago
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Rating: Safe
Score: 23
User: SnowWolf
Date: July 28, 2012

MyNameIsOver20charac said:
Is there a tag for 'penis-clitoris'?

Not checking any of these before I link 'em--gotta run, but..

Off hand, we've got big_clitoris, enlarged_clitoris, and hyper_clitoris but none of those are really.. a penis.

There's pseudo-penis but... I can't say a lot of these look like penis-shaped clits.. looks more like an excuse to draw herms c_c but I admit I havn't studied the, uh, natural counterpart, so maybe it's realistic.


SnowWolf said:
Not checking any of these before I link 'em--gotta run, but..

Off hand, we've got big_clitoris, enlarged_clitoris, and hyper_clitoris but none of those are really.. a penis.

There's pseudo-penis but... I can't say a lot of these look like penis-shaped clits.. looks more like an excuse to draw herms c_c but I admit I havn't studied the, uh, natural counterpart, so maybe it's realistic.

There's differences, but it's pretty subtle. The male hyena's penis has a pointier tip with a bulge and a fold around the very tip while the pseudo-penis is smoother and less pointy. I wouldn't expect laypeople to know the difference (hell, a lot of people think they have canine penises with or without a knot), especially since it isn't always obvious at certain angles.
A hyena with a pseudo-penis shouldn't additionally have a vagina- they mate and give birth through the pseudo-penis. I feel like most people who know enough about hyena to know they have a pseudo-penis (even if they don't bother/want to look at references) will also be aware of that factor.

SnowWolf
Former Staff
12 days ago
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Rating: Safe
Score: 23
User: SnowWolf
Date: July 28, 2012

out of order reply for reasons:

regsmutt said:
A hyena with a pseudo-penis shouldn't additionally have a vagina- they mate and give birth through the pseudo-penis. I feel like most people who know enough about hyena to know they have a pseudo-penis (even if they don't bother/want to look at references) will also be aware of that factor.

An offhanded correction. sleepy me meant dickgirls/herms rather than just herms. Sleepy me isn't so smart.

But this should be true--I knew that at least :) Evolution is truly amazing.

There's differences, but it's pretty subtle. The male hyena's penis has a pointier tip with a bulge and a fold around the very tip while the pseudo-penis is smoother and less pointy. I wouldn't expect laypeople to know the difference (hell, a lot of people think they have canine penises with or without a knot), especially since it isn't always obvious at certain angles.

Canine... ugh. I can't see how anyone can know one fact and not the other, but I know Far Too Many animal facts for my own good. But I have long realized that most people do not have the focus on detail that I do... for some reason c_c;

Anyway, the shape difference is interesting!

...

Whatcha think about Twenty's picture?

I guess pseudo penis doesn't apply-- after all, it seems to be a FUNCTIONAL penis..

.... Maybe it's just a herm?

I'm not into herms so I don't usually browse through them, but clitoris-as-a-penis-base seems like it ... should be a common thing maybe?

I dunno.

I have a migraine. and a cold. This year sucks.


SnowWolf said:
I'm not into herms so I don't usually browse through them, but clitoris-as-a-penis-base seems like it ... should be a common thing maybe?

Yes, people often used "futanari" for "hermaphrodite without balls" (I can't currently access Jisho, so I'm not sure if that's accurate). However, we just have hermaphrodite -balls so rather than aliasing futanari to its own tag that was clearer, the two forms were merged together.
Doesn't help that some images under that link above will have a standard clit and a penis, either: hermaphrodite -balls clit immediately shows pictures such as post #1459141.

Edit: Did a bit of searching for definitions elsewhere, and Futanari literally just means hermaphrodite, somebody with both genitals. It has nothing to do with having testicles or not, so the alias does fit. We should, however, have a tag for a penis_clitoris/clitoral_penis.


SnowWolf said:
Whatcha think about Twenty's picture?

I guess pseudo penis doesn't apply-- after all, it seems to be a FUNCTIONAL penis..

.... Maybe it's just a herm?

I'm not into herms so I don't usually browse through them, but clitoris-as-a-penis-base seems like it ... should be a common thing maybe?

It looks herm to me- it seems to have a vagina as well as a penis. It looks like the artist is aware that the clitoris and penis develop from the same tissue and took that into account with the design. The biggest issue with a tag for it might be making sure it's not undertagged and deciding what to do with weird cases (like a regular ol human dong positioned where the clitoris would be but is clearly just a regular ol human dong).


regsmutt said:
It looks herm to me- it seems to have a vagina as well as a penis. It looks like the artist is aware that the clitoris and penis develop from the same tissue and took that into account with the design. The biggest issue with a tag for it might be making sure it's not undertagged and deciding what to do with weird cases (like a regular ol human dong positioned where the clitoris would be but is clearly just a regular ol human dong).

What's so special about a human penis that it should be singled out? A penis is a penis, and if you replace the clitoris with a penis, you've replaced the clitoris with a penis.


Furrin_Gok said:
What's so special about a human penis that it should be singled out? A penis is a penis, and if you replace the clitoris with a penis, you've replaced the clitoris with a penis.

Eh, it's kind of a picky thing. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The type of skin on the length of the shaft is a bit different- closer to what's on the rest of the body than the skin that covers the clitoris and makes up the clitoral hood. That difference will affect whether or not it'll read as a modified clitoris or not to the average viewer.


Could sackless be the tag you guys are looking for?


Is there a tag for when an image's characters (and maybe a foreground object or two) are colored, and while the background isn't simple, it still lacks color?

How about the reverse, where characters and foreground are black and white but the background is colored? And, would that image qualify for spot color because only the eyes of the characters are colored, or would the colored background make it invalid?

Genjar
Former Staff
9 days ago
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Rating: Safe
Score: 275
User: Genjar
Date: May 29, 2013

SarahColley said:
Is there a tag for when an image's characters (and maybe a foreground object or two) are colored, and while the background isn't simple, it still lacks color?

Just partially_colored. There's no specific tag for uncolored background, as far as I know.


Is there a tag for when a character has their mouth held open by another like so? https://rule34.xxx/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=2731880


1. You have to be careful with tags describing panels and text bubbles arranged right-to-left because some languages are written right-to-left which is something else.

2. I would have suggested painting_(object) too, but also alias painting to painting_(disambiguation).

3.

MyNameIsOver20charac said:
Is there a tag for 'penis-clitoris'?

The top image probably passes for enlarged_clitoris on e621, which often is a small "penis clitoris" IRL, but I wouldn't tag that because the other two images make clear that's a herm's functional penis and not a clitoris. I don't think we have specialized herms' genital arrangements at all except perhaps herm vs maleherm, but you can tag that herm sackless, which has lots of similar results.

4.

Dyrone said:
Is there a tag for when a character has their mouth held open by another like so? https://rule34.xxx/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=2731880

spread_mouth + hand_in_mouth. Technically, that qualifies for a mouth_grab tag under the holding_* and *_grab system.

SnowWolf
Former Staff
6 days ago
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Rating: Safe
Score: 23
User: SnowWolf
Date: July 28, 2012

A subtle return to "is this a griffon or not?"

ambiguous_gender avian beak bird black_beak black_eyes branch brown_feathers cute eye_contact feathered_wings feathers feral group gryphon kogiku_10 long-tailed_tit on_branch outside perched quadruped sitting spread_wings standing sunbeam tail_feathers white_feathers wings

Rating: Safe
Score: 41
User: SnowWolf
Date: April 18, 2018

More importantly, what kinda bird is this?

(should be have a 'what species is this" thread? I know I look at a lot of pictures and say "that's a specific type of dog, I know it..." but googling for "white floofy bird" or "brown dog with black ears' doesna't help much, haha.


SnowWolf said:
A subtle return to "is this a griffon or not?"

ambiguous_gender avian beak bird black_beak black_eyes branch brown_feathers cute eye_contact feathered_wings feathers feral group gryphon kogiku_10 long-tailed_tit on_branch outside perched quadruped sitting spread_wings standing sunbeam tail_feathers white_feathers wings

Rating: Safe
Score: 41
User: SnowWolf
Date: April 18, 2018

More importantly, what kinda bird is this?

(should be have a 'what species is this" thread? I know I look at a lot of pictures and say "that's a specific type of dog, I know it..." but googling for "white floofy bird" or "brown dog with black ears' doesna't help much, haha.

I do believe that those are Shima Enaga, the same kind of bird as the one in the album art for theme of really cool birb.

edit: also those probably aren't griffons, i don't know what you'd tag quadruped birds though... taur? would it be taur?


darryus said:
I do believe that those are Shima Enaga, the same kind of bird as the one in the album art for theme of really cool birb.

edit: also those probably aren't griffons, i don't know what you'd tag quadruped birds though... taur? would it be taur?

Don't we have a specific tag for when a tauric entity has the anthro half of the same species as their quadruped half? We can count the wings as the "arms" in this case.

Genjar
Former Staff
6 days ago
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Rating: Safe
Score: 275
User: Genjar
Date: May 29, 2013

SnowWolf said:
More importantly, what kinda bird is this?

Aegithalos caudatus, the long-tailed tit.
Supposedly a common species, though I've only seen them once myself.

SnowWolf
Former Staff
6 days ago
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Rating: Safe
Score: 23
User: SnowWolf
Date: July 28, 2012

Furrin_Gok said:
Don't we have a specific tag for when a tauric entity has the anthro half of the same species as their quadruped half? We can count the wings as the "arms" in this case.

I'd say no jsut because, well, the wings are on the back half of the body.

I dunno though. I think them birds are ADORABLE and I love them and I WANT MORE FOUR LEGGED BIRDS, and want to know how to tag them.

Maybe I should jsutstart a tag for 4 legged birbs. c_c

Genjar said:
Aegithalos caudatus, the long-tailed tit.
Supposedly a common species, though I've only seen them once myself.

Thanks! They're adorable :D and properly tagged now, thank yoU!


multi_leg

I only see birds with four legs supporting a horizontal spine, not mixed species. I don't see any positively feline features, let alone that of lions as specified in gryphon's wiki. Those birds also lack the horizontal + vertical spine combination of taurs.

Use multi_[body_part] tags when a character of a given species has more of a type of anatomical structure than expected. Fantasy body types like anthro and taur can modify those expectations. Unclear if fantasy creatures with no base animal or distinct body type to reference, like toppingtart_(artist)'s "flesh angels", should have multi_[body_part] tags rather than #_[body_part]s tags, but I suppose any unnatural-seeming amount of a given anatomical structure safely qualifies for a multi_[body_part] tag too. (That is to say, how can a creature have more [body parts] than expected when there can be no expectations because the creature is very alien?)

I would call those birds alternate_form, but that tag seems limited to franchise characters with appreciably different appearances than normal.